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Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth

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Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#1 » by BullyKing » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:52 pm

Now that we're back to our 2018 roster, a thread for discussing where we go from here.
NYSixersFan wrote:
the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#2 » by ankle420breaker » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:01 pm

Feeling like Rivers is our guy with the MLE, and honestly we could do worse.

Aren't the Pelican in a position where they need to clear some salary? Morey could be working on trying to bring JJ back.

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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#3 » by kriss73 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:22 pm

I dont't know if my calculations are right but I just realize that:
currently, Sixers tax bill is around 12 / 13M
If they use the MLE it would be up around 22M
If they use their TPE (and not MLE) it would skyrocket in the range of 32 / 35M

So I'm not sure to see big additions right now.
Of course they could add someone now and than they could use the expirings to cut salaries at the trade deadline in order to go under the tax line.

EDIT: I used this free tool
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#4 » by Kobblehead » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:37 pm

I feel like a 2 for 1 trade is needed. We have too much deadweight.

Deadweight:
- Mike Scott
- Terrance Ferguson
- Zhaire Smith

Also, I think we should be looking to move one of (if not both) Shake and Furkan.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#5 » by the_process » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:44 pm

I think the Horford trade might end up looking different. It has a shot of being incorporated into that monster deal with Adams to NOP and Jrue to MIL. Would explain why they've been quiet after the Dwight signing.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#6 » by ckchen » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:57 pm

kriss73 wrote:I dont't know if my calculations are right but I just realize that:
currently, Sixers tax bill is around 12 / 13M
If they use the MLE it would be up around 22M
If they use their TPE (and not MLE) it would skyrocket in the range of 32 / 35M

So I'm not sure to see big additions right now.
Of course they could add someone now and than they could use the expirings to cut salaries at the trade deadline in order to go under the tax line.

EDIT: I used this free tool


I agree, I think most of the big moves have already been made, people are waiting for some trade or signing that's not very likely to happen because we are mostly hamstrung with our roster/salary cap situation. I think we'll see one or maybe two more signings, mostly for the vet minimum, trying to pull a bargain or two from free agency. Maybe Rivers with (partial) TMLE, if it's necessary.

I also think that people are assuming/giving up on Scott, Smith, and to some extent Ferguson prematurely, mostly because of recency bias. Because of slightly down season shooting they are willing to throw Scott in the trash pile, while at the same time praising Danny Green despite similar struggles. Scott, when used correctly and shooting well is a perfectly fine stretch 4 and something we can use.

Zhaire is younger/as young as most of the people taken in this year's draft and has had some really unfortunate luck with health. As a developmental piece, he's really not that much different that someone who would've been taken in this year's draft, but again, people are willing to throw him out despite having minimal opportunity to play since returning to health. He was always going to be a project. You don't hear the Celtics talking about Langford, Grant Williams, Robert Williams, etc. the same way. Or Darius Bazley with OKC. Portland with Anfernee Simons. Just because you don't have the opportunity to develop a young project on the team doesn't mean that he's suddenly lost the potential you drafted him for. Not that I expect Doc to be particularly great at this either, but it is striking how easily people on the board are willing to toss Zhaire into every proposal. Just because your team aspirations are higher doesn't mean you can give up completely on player development. You can throw Ferguson into this mix as well, the kid is only 22, and quite frankly has shown some flashes.

I don't really understand the thinking of flushing potential out just so they can have a serviceable journeyman PG or big man as your 11 or 12th man. Maybe there's a high probability both Zhaire and Ferguson amount to nothing but that's really what the last two or three spots on your roster should be for, in case of injury or some other reason they get the opportunity to play/develop.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#7 » by Kobblehead » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:59 pm

Zhaire and Terrance have no potential. They were bad picks with terrible skillsets. Neither player would be in the NBA if it wasn't for their athleticism.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#8 » by ckchen » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:03 pm

the_process wrote:I think the Horford trade might end up looking different. It has a shot of being incorporated into that monster deal with Adams to NOP and Jrue to MIL. Would explain why they've been quiet after the Dwight signing.


Or the equal likelihood that because that trade is being held up by OKC and Morey doesn't want to make moves until we have that resolved. Doesn't mean it's being changed meaningfully any way from our end, but just that it's holding us up from moving forward with anything else significant.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#9 » by ProcessDoctor » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:05 pm

Working in Scott + Smith for Hill would be ideal. That solidifies our 9-man rotation for this season IMO.


Simmons(20)/Hill(24)/Milton(4)
Curry(28)/Milton(20)
Green(24)/Thybulle(24)
Harris(34)/Simmons(14)
Embiid(30)/Howard(18)


Simmons/Hill/Maxey
Curry/Milton/Joe
Green/Thybulle/Ferguson
Harris/Vet min
Embiid/Howard/Reed


Not sure where that puts us in terms of the apron. I can't imagine the FO would go into the season above it.
2020-2021 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Milton/Maxey
Curry/Korkmaz/Joe
Green/Thybulle/Ferguson
Harris/Scott/Reed
Embiid/Howard/Bradley
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#10 » by ckchen » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:10 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Zhaire and Terrance have no potential. They were bad picks with terrible skillsets. Neither player would be in the NBA if it wasn't for their athleticism.


You could say the same thing about half of the draft picks from this past draft. That's the whole point of a developmental player.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#11 » by Kobblehead » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:19 pm

ckchen wrote:You could say the same thing about half of the draft picks from this past draft. That's the whole point of a developmental player.


Agreed, but it costs a lot of resources to develop a player. Time, energy, focus, etc. You have to choose your candidates wisely. I don't think it wise to waste time developing an athlete with no defining basketball trait. Which is exactly what I view both Ferguson and Smith to be.

I'd rather focus my time, energy and attention on developing guys that could actually matter like Thybulle (defense), Maxey (creation), Reed (defense).
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#12 » by 76ciology » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:23 pm

Right now, I’d explore trading Tobi into a positive asset.

I’d wait for what will happen with this brogdan fiasco. It may lead to Hield being out of place and they may want to explore trading him for Tobi.

But I’m not in a hurry. I think we can run this team like the 2017-2018 Sixers or the 2019-2020 Heat where everyone will excel on their role.

Ben and Biid getting shooters open.
Tobias shown improvement and getting showcased.
Seth, Green and Milton shooting bazillion 3s.
Thybulle bringing energy off the bench.
Maxey showing promise as 6th man scorer.
D12 playing good defense with Biid off the floor.


Short term, I can see our team end up with atleast the 4th best record in the east. And at the same time we’ll have a lot of options before the deadline to make a big trade before for the play-offs.

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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#13 » by sixers hoops » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:34 pm

BullyKing wrote:Now that we're back to our 2018 roster, a thread for discussing where we go from here.


Perfect lead in for this thread lol. 2018 with less assets I guess.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#14 » by skulky » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:34 pm

ckchen wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:Zhaire and Terrance have no potential. They were bad picks with terrible skillsets. Neither player would be in the NBA if it wasn't for their athleticism.


You could say the same thing about half of the draft picks from this past draft. That's the whole point of a developmental player.

Taking a 6’3” raw athlete that played pf/c in college was a bad idea. And unfortunately everything has gone the wrong way for him since with allergies and injuries. He had no handle, shot, and really any fundamentals on either end. He had some flashy highlights and a crazy dunk in a tournament game. It was such a mistake to draft him instead of sga or mikal. The roster as currently constructed has no minutes for zhaire, and there’s not likely to be a g league this year.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#15 » by Kobblehead » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:36 pm

ckchen wrote:Because of slightly down season shooting they are willing to throw Scott in the trash pile, while at the same time praising Danny Green despite similar struggles.


That's where Mike Scott belongs, though. Other than his shooting (an overrated trait), what else does he bring to the table? He doesn't rebound well enough at the NBA level, he's an absolute sieve defensively, and, obviously, he can't score off the dribble as a big.

When Danny Green doesn't shoot well, it doesn't matter because he's one of the stronger defensive wings in the league.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#16 » by skulky » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:41 pm

I don’t really see the team doing much more this offseason other than maybe a guard on a vet minimum possibly Austin rivers. Maybe a minor trade to consolidate bench pieces, and slight chance at a major trade for harden, but don’t think that’s going to happen before the season starts.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#17 » by sixers hoops » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:44 pm

ckchen wrote:
kriss73 wrote:I dont't know if my calculations are right but I just realize that:
currently, Sixers tax bill is around 12 / 13M
If they use the MLE it would be up around 22M
If they use their TPE (and not MLE) it would skyrocket in the range of 32 / 35M

So I'm not sure to see big additions right now.
Of course they could add someone now and than they could use the expirings to cut salaries at the trade deadline in order to go under the tax line.

EDIT: I used this free tool


I agree, I think most of the big moves have already been made, people are waiting for some trade or signing that's not very likely to happen because we are mostly hamstrung with our roster/salary cap situation. I think we'll see one or maybe two more signings, mostly for the vet minimum, trying to pull a bargain or two from free agency. Maybe Rivers with (partial) TMLE, if it's necessary.

I also think that people are assuming/giving up on Scott, Smith, and to some extent Ferguson prematurely, mostly because of recency bias. Because of slightly down season shooting they are willing to throw Scott in the trash pile, while at the same time praising Danny Green despite similar struggles. Scott, when used correctly and shooting well is a perfectly fine stretch 4 and something we can use.

Zhaire is younger/as young as most of the people taken in this year's draft and has had some really unfortunate luck with health. As a developmental piece, he's really not that much different that someone who would've been taken in this year's draft, but again, people are willing to throw him out despite having minimal opportunity to play since returning to health. He was always going to be a project. You don't hear the Celtics talking about Langford, Grant Williams, Robert Williams, etc. the same way. Or Darius Bazley with OKC. Portland with Anfernee Simons. Just because you don't have the opportunity to develop a young project on the team doesn't mean that he's suddenly lost the potential you drafted him for. Not that I expect Doc to be particularly great at this either, but it is striking how easily people on the board are willing to toss Zhaire into every proposal. Just because your team aspirations are higher doesn't mean you can give up completely on player development. You can throw Ferguson into this mix as well, the kid is only 22, and quite frankly has shown some flashes.

I don't really understand the thinking of flushing potential out just so they can have a serviceable journeyman PG or big man as your 11 or 12th man. Maybe there's a high probability both Zhaire and Ferguson amount to nothing but that's really what the last two or three spots on your roster should be for, in case of injury or some other reason they get the opportunity to play/develop.


I would be fine keeping Scott if we don’t need him for a bigger deal. He shot 40%+ from three in 3 of the last 5 years. And the other two were 37% and 39%. And I thought his defense was bad last year too. However, the team wasn’t good and he had a down season with them. In reality, he is a great fit with Ben and Joel, so I am fine keeping him tho.

With that said, Ersan was one of the best Joel-Ben complements we’ve had. I would have strong interest in him.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#18 » by Kobblehead » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:47 pm

My paranoia regarding signing Austin Rivers revolves around the possibility of negatively impacting Maxey's growth and Doc over-relying on his son to fill a role on the team that is probably too big a role for us to feel comfortable with.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#19 » by Kobblehead » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:58 pm

Regarding keeping Scott or signing Ilyasova: Why do we want these 6'8" 230 pound floor spacers on the floor with our franchise pieces?

I think it makes way more sense to go smaller with those surrounding pieces and prioritize defensive abilities and, ideally, shotcreation.
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Re: Offseason Thread No. 3: Non-Linear Growth 

Post#20 » by sixers hoops » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:58 pm

Kobblehead wrote:My paranoia regarding signing Austin Rivers revolves around the possibility of negatively impacting Maxey's growth and Doc over-relying on his son to fill a role on the team that is probably too big a role for us to feel comfortable with.


Is he even a good fit for us? I don’t want to rule a guy out just because his dad is coach, but how is Austin a good fit? I haven’t seen enough of him over his career to have a good feel for his game.

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