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Who still wants Harden?

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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2021 » by Black Mage » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:43 am

eyeatoma wrote:
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I'm guessing Morey tells Rivers, you have till the deadline to get the most out of Ben, or else I'm trading his ass.


FIRE DOC.

You've gotten 2 F'ing 3's and a couple of jumpers. STFU you think you can get more out of Ben.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2022 » by BullyKing » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:45 am

Black Mage wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Read on Twitter


I'm guessing Morey tells Rivers, you have till the deadline to get the most out of Ben, or else I'm trading his ass.


FIRE DOC.

You've gotten 2 F'ing 3's and a couple of jumpers. STFU you think you can get more out of Ben.


In fairness to Doc, he's doubled Simmons' 3 point attempts a game from a career average of 0.1 to 0.2.
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the plan is to get as good as quickly as possible....I fully believe we could have been a borderline playoff team last year by adding young veterans....using or draft picks and cap space.....can I specifically tell you who? no.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2023 » by Black Mage » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:54 am

Stanford wrote:
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Stanford wrote:
Just look at how good Embiid looks with Seth Curry, man. Come on.


These Ben truthers are nauseating. He'll be 35 and take his 1 3 and they'll still exclaim "this is it, this changes the entire team dynamic, he's ready to shoot it, his latest hype vids are the truth!" :crazy: :banghead:


okay


I was commenting on Kova position and joining your comment back to him. I agree with you Stanford.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2024 » by Mik317 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:54 am

some of yall don't want to hear this but....the nets package is better than our package...from houston's stand point. They are probably going to either bottom out or mediocre it up and the owner doesn't want more salary on his hands (dude is broke for a rich guy) so for him this deal is great because it clears space but doesn't make Adam Silver mad that he is tanking overtly either. Plus the implosion of the Nets is still a chance and even if not those later picks are going to be useful.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2025 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:58 am

Mik317 wrote:some of yall don't want to hear this but....the nets package is better than our package...from houston's stand point. They are probably going to either bottom out or mediocre it up and the owner doesn't want more salary on his hands (dude is broke for a rich guy) so for him this deal is great because it clears space but doesn't make Adam Silver mad that he is tanking overtly either. Plus the implosion of the Nets is still a chance and even if not those later picks are going to be useful.


OUr package would have been better with added picks. It was ours to lose. Probably Maxey as well...
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2026 » by Skates » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:02 am

Maxey was the breaking point, plus possibly the amount of draft compensation. Having watched this team all year, that does not surprise me. If a guy with Maxey’s skill set and potential was available I would go hard after him, but hey he’s already here.

As for Ben, being offered for James Harden is no insult to Ben by the Sixers. It isn’t like he was being tossed out there freely for a nobody.

And in the end, Rox management needed to win a trade with Morey, the price was always going to be higher for Daryl...and in the end, he raised the price a division rival had to pay.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2027 » by Negrodamus » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:03 am

Mik317 wrote:some of yall don't want to hear this but....the nets package is better than our package...from houston's stand point. They are probably going to either bottom out or mediocre it up and the owner doesn't want more salary on his hands (dude is broke for a rich guy) so for him this deal is great because it clears space but doesn't make Adam Silver mad that he is tanking overtly either. Plus the implosion of the Nets is still a chance and even if not those later picks are going to be useful.


Read on Twitter


Just a reminder for if the Rockets want to stealth tank that the Thunder have their nuts in a vice for a bit. They must really be banking on a blow up in Brooklyn.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2028 » by Black Mage » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:05 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Mik317 wrote:some of yall don't want to hear this but....the nets package is better than our package...from houston's stand point. They are probably going to either bottom out or mediocre it up and the owner doesn't want more salary on his hands (dude is broke for a rich guy) so for him this deal is great because it clears space but doesn't make Adam Silver mad that he is tanking overtly either. Plus the implosion of the Nets is still a chance and even if not those later picks are going to be useful.


OUr package would have been better with added picks. It was ours to lose. Probably Maxey as well...


There comes a time where the deal as a whole becomes a bad deal. If reports are accurate, what Houston wanted from us was too much. We didn't even have enough picks (thanks BC & EB) to do it and Morey would have had to trade MORE assets just to find the draft capital.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2029 » by Skates » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:05 am

Negrodamus wrote:
Mik317 wrote:some of yall don't want to hear this but....the nets package is better than our package...from houston's stand point. They are probably going to either bottom out or mediocre it up and the owner doesn't want more salary on his hands (dude is broke for a rich guy) so for him this deal is great because it clears space but doesn't make Adam Silver mad that he is tanking overtly either. Plus the implosion of the Nets is still a chance and even if not those later picks are going to be useful.


Read on Twitter


Just a reminder for if the Rockets want to stealth tank that the Thunder have their nuts in a vice for a bit. They must really be banking on a blow up in Brooklyn.


The Nets going boom now or later with those personalities is not a bad bet at all.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2030 » by sixers hoops » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:17 am

Black Mage wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Mik317 wrote:some of yall don't want to hear this but....the nets package is better than our package...from houston's stand point. They are probably going to either bottom out or mediocre it up and the owner doesn't want more salary on his hands (dude is broke for a rich guy) so for him this deal is great because it clears space but doesn't make Adam Silver mad that he is tanking overtly either. Plus the implosion of the Nets is still a chance and even if not those later picks are going to be useful.


OUr package would have been better with added picks. It was ours to lose. Probably Maxey as well...


There comes a time where the deal as a whole becomes a bad deal. If reports are accurate, what Houston wanted from us was too much. We didn't even have enough picks (thanks BC & EB) to do it and Morey would have had to trade MORE assets just to find the draft capital.


Yeah, we def squandered some picks.

I think we would have been a top 5 team if we would have done the deal; however, the Nets should be top 2 or 3. More reason for them to give up the max draft pick assortment. When you push all your chips in, you first need to assess your odds of winning the hand, and for the Sixers, we would have been close but certainly not favorites.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2031 » by sixers hoops » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:25 am

blargh wrote:
AI_Efficiency wrote:
blargh wrote:
Time is a flat circle, man. I honestly thought no NBA team was going to be stupid enough to trade that number of sequential FRPs and trade swaps ever again, but for that next team to be the Nets is...unbelievable.

The previous nets / Celtics trade was the exception. The ringer has an article noting how most picks traded years into the future become middle first rounders.


That analysis is incomplete at best. The problem is giving up so many consecutive years of your draft control effectively gives you no way to get better if things start to go south (e.g. Durant gets injured, Kyrie goes mental, Harden decides he hates his teammates yet again). Each year you get worse because you continue to have no draft help, and the picks continue to get more and more valuable, as you find yourself in a hole that’s impossible to climb out of. The lesson of the previous Nets regime is that giving up these sequential picks has more downside potential than a random single FRP.


Well said.

Billy King is one of the worst GMs in league history, and this was another one of his awful moves.

The Rockets lost an assortment of picks and are already regretting it.

Clippers did the same deal. We’ll have to see how that works out.

The three firsts and two swaps draft pick cornucopia is very dangerous, and if you’re not going to have a very good chance of winning a title, it’s probably an eventual disaster.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2032 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:52 am

Sorry but Morey flopped here until proven otherwise.

No way the dealbreaker is Maxey.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2033 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:53 am

2 of the 4 picks were just swaps.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2034 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:55 am

Black Mage wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Read on Twitter


I'm guessing Morey tells Rivers, you have till the deadline to get the most out of Ben, or else I'm trading his ass.


FIRE DOC.

You've gotten 2 F'ing 3's and a couple of jumpers. STFU you think you can get more out of Ben.


Na.

I think its just so Ben still can play 100% for Doc. Bad cop Good cop style
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2035 » by Sixerscan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:00 am

76ciology wrote:2 of the 4 picks were just swaps.

Read on Twitter
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2036 » by AI_Efficiency » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:01 am

sixers hoops wrote:
blargh wrote:
AI_Efficiency wrote:The previous nets / Celtics trade was the exception. The ringer has an article noting how most picks traded years into the future become middle first rounders.


That analysis is incomplete at best. The problem is giving up so many consecutive years of your draft control effectively gives you no way to get better if things start to go south (e.g. Durant gets injured, Kyrie goes mental, Harden decides he hates his teammates yet again). Each year you get worse because you continue to have no draft help, and the picks continue to get more and more valuable, as you find yourself in a hole that’s impossible to climb out of. The lesson of the previous Nets regime is that giving up these sequential picks has more downside potential than a random single FRP.


Well said.

Billy King is one of the worst GMs in league history, and this was another one of his awful moves.

The Rockets lost an assortment of picks and are already regretting it.

Clippers did the same deal. We’ll have to see how that works out.

The three firsts and two swaps draft pick cornucopia is very dangerous, and if you’re not going to have a very good chance of winning a title, it’s probably an eventual disaster.

I think we should operate from the position that finishing last and second are essentially the same if you never get a ring. Winning a championship is all that matters. Even if your team is terrible for a decade, if it ups your chances at a ring by a significant amount it might be worth rolling those dice. Maybe other better opportunities will come down the road that puts us in a better position, but I think it’s pretty rare someone as good as Harden is gettable (at least putting FA aside). It’s really not that big a deal to trade all the picks and be awful like the nets. No different then us getting bounced in the second round every year. Rather at least take the chance at being great.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2037 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:02 am

Sixerscan wrote:
76ciology wrote:2 of the 4 picks were just swaps.

Read on Twitter


Ok my bad.

Thats quite a haul
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2038 » by blargh » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:15 am

76ciology wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
76ciology wrote:2 of the 4 picks were just swaps.

Read on Twitter


Ok my bad.

Thats quite a haul


Plus Lavert, Allen, Kurucs, and probably Prince are all positive assets in of themselves.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2039 » by AI_Efficiency » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:20 am

AI_Efficiency wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
blargh wrote:
That analysis is incomplete at best. The problem is giving up so many consecutive years of your draft control effectively gives you no way to get better if things start to go south (e.g. Durant gets injured, Kyrie goes mental, Harden decides he hates his teammates yet again). Each year you get worse because you continue to have no draft help, and the picks continue to get more and more valuable, as you find yourself in a hole that’s impossible to climb out of. The lesson of the previous Nets regime is that giving up these sequential picks has more downside potential than a random single FRP.


Well said.

Billy King is one of the worst GMs in league history, and this was another one of his awful moves.

The Rockets lost an assortment of picks and are already regretting it.

Clippers did the same deal. We’ll have to see how that works out.

The three firsts and two swaps draft pick cornucopia is very dangerous, and if you’re not going to have a very good chance of winning a title, it’s probably an eventual disaster.

I think we should operate from the position that finishing last and second are essentially the same if you never get a ring. Winning a championship is all that matters. Even if your team is terrible for a decade, if it ups your chances at a ring by a significant amount it might be worth rolling those dice. Maybe other better opportunities will come down the road that puts us in a better position, but I think it’s pretty rare someone as good as Harden is gettable (at least putting FA aside). It’s really not that big a deal to trade all the picks and be awful like the nets. No different then us getting bounced in the second round every year. Rather at least take the chance at being great.

Also, I don’t think being like X team regrets it now is a good way to look at it because they likely regret the outcome with the benefit of hindsight. I’ll make up some numbers, but suppose the Clippers trade for Paul George gave them a 30% chance at a ring over a 10 year span. If not making that trade would have them at a 5% chance over that 10 year span, even if the 30% chance not hitting results in them being a wasteland for 15 years, you still do it. A team might regret taking the chance because the jackpot didn’t hit, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t smart to roll the dice in the first place.
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Re: Who still wants Harden? 

Post#2040 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:25 am

Rafael Stone played this well.

For the Nets, why do they have to do that? If they have a healthy Kyrie and KD, they should be able to atleast compete with us on a 7 game series.

They could have just traded for less and get Oladipo just to get an edge over anyone.

They sacrificed a lot just to be better in the next 2-3 seasons.
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