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So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors

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What is the pivot now that Harden is gone? Votes can be changed

Beal
28
39%
Lavine
14
19%
Smaller moves around the edges
30
42%
 
Total votes: 72

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#61 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:07 pm

76ciology wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?

He was on the block not because he was unwanted, so I dont think it’s going to be much of a deal.

It’s in his best interest to stick with the team. Because it is his best chance to get a supermax.


Um, well... I'm not sure about unwanted. We were prepared to trade him lol.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#62 » by 6ers83 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:08 pm

I love Beal - I’d trade him straight up for Ben but I would doubt Washington would.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#63 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:10 pm

76ciology wrote:My fearless forecast:
Sixers will go after Bradley Beal. But it will not involve Ben.

Tobias, Thybulle, Milton and all available picks till 2025.


Here’s why I think it’s gonna happen.



Naturally when a team gets this good, most teams will find a way to be better in order to survive. It’s an arms race.

Then I think Ben will be used as an accessory to a Embiid or Bradley Beal, to make-up for their deficit against the all time great talents of other teams.

Beal is also just 28 this year. So this allows them to trade multiple picks with less risks.

And last, if you can trade Tobi and a group of guys who aren’t likely to be stars, why wouldnt you do it.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#64 » by DCasey91 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:10 pm

sixers hoops wrote:
TTP wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
You said we looked fine and were 7-1, then follow that up by saying it’s not smart to judge anything off these early season games. You basically said Ben looked good early season, but then when he looked bad, we shouldn’t judge those games lol.

When we were 7-1, where you honestly that impressed? I thought we looked okay against some really bad teams. I didn’t really see that stretch as a sign that we turned the corner into a great team or anything.

What’s makes you think Ben could be a better player than Harden? They are in different classes as players. I don’t really see Ben’s game evolving to project him to be someday better than Harden. And you mentioned Ben as an elite two way floor general. Ben is a good ball handler and passer, but how is he elite offensively?


We had the best 5 man unit in the league at that point. I'm not sure how they could impress you if that doesn't do it.

There was very much evidence that we could be a great team. It was far from guaranteed but that early performance was about as great of an indicator as you could reasonably expect to have.

Everyone brings up that the schedule was weak but it's been quite a long time since we've dominated anyone like that for an extended stretch. Even some of the games that were close (first Wizards game, Raptors) were only close because we shot way under expectation from 3 and the other team shot well.


Best five man unit against teams we won’t see in the playoffs. I’m not impressed when we beat up on bad teams. Instead of “indicators” that we can be great, I will wait to see how we actually do against good teams. I don’t believe this “evidence” that we can be a great team. We are still eliminated in the second round in my estimation, and those early season games didn’t change that at all for me.



100% agree on the Indicators. Context plays a huge part of it too.

We always play at home historically good and historically bad away even with a good team lol

And yes I too have us at 2nd round max, might sneak into the ECF if we’re extremely lucky and Embiid goes berserk but it’s too many “perfect things falling together, and it’ll be more so other teams imploding/injuries.

But at the end of the day

When your elite and best perimeter option is Harris or a Russian roulette of other scoring /creating/shooting players be it Curry, Milton or Maxey.

let’s face it that ain’t gonna cut it in the playoffs.

Best chance is Milton going forward if we go the organic route. But how high is his ceiling?

3-4 years that’s all we have, Championship windows don’t come around often.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#65 » by ankle420breaker » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:15 pm

eyeatoma wrote:Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?
We weren't actively dangling him and pursuing Simmons trades. I think Ben is able to wrap his head around being involved in a scenario where a superstar hits the market and outwardly conveys his interest in coming to Philadelphia.

This isn't the regime of yesteryear. Doc and Daryl have gone on record saying they're content with the current roster and in the end weren't willing to take such a massive swing to pay their price. I don't foresee any lingering drama as we collectively move on.

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#66 » by kuclas » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:25 pm

eyeatoma wrote:Okay, time to move on. I'm happy Morey didn't' mortgage our future for Harden although I loved the idea of him here. What do you think Morey will do now. The fact that we nearly moved Simmons means that Morey is on the same wave length and knows that Simmons does not make us a contender.

Here are the potential options.

Beal?
Lavine?
Or a bunch of a smaller moves (I can't think of which ones now)

Which would you prefer?

Does a package of Tobi plus some of our younger players help us get one of those players?
If it's Simmons, do we have to give an offer similar to what Morey scoffed at?

I'm guessing something happens by the deadline.

Because this isn't cutting it.

Read on Twitter

Any normal player would have taken the jump shot (at the free throw line). Ben just refuses to take that shot. 4 plus feet free space and passes up a free throw.

You do that to an average nba player who shoots 70% free throw line. They take that shot 90% of the time. Cause it’s a HIGH PERCENTAGE 2 point uncontested free throw line shot.

Ben refuses to do that.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#67 » by eyeatoma » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:26 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?
We weren't actively dangling him and pursuing Simmons trades. I think Ben is able to wrap his head around being involved in a scenario where a superstar hits the market and outwardly conveys his interest in coming to Philadelphia.

This isn't the regime of yesteryear. Doc and Daryl have gone on record saying they're content with the current roster and in the end weren't willing to take such a massive swing to pay their price. I don't foresee any lingering drama as we collectively move on.

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Hope so... Keith Pompey, who I really don't care for said in his podcast that there'll need to be damage control.

https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/lockedonsixers?selected=LKN5829767639

Here's his podcast where he talks about it. Take it for what it's worth.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#68 » by youngcrev » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:26 pm

eyeatoma wrote:Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?


There were reports that he was relieved to not be dealt. I'm sure this has been hanging over his head ever since the rumors started. Hopefully he can get back to his normal level of play now, or maybe this close call lights a fire under his ass and we finally get a performance jump out of him. Obviously, there's also potential for it to go sideways.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#69 » by DCasey91 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:28 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?
We weren't actively dangling him and pursuing Simmons trades. I think Ben is able to wrap his head around being involved in a scenario where a superstar hits the market and outwardly conveys his interest in coming to Philadelphia.

This isn't the regime of yesteryear. Doc and Daryl have gone on record saying they're content with the current roster and in the end weren't willing to take such a massive swing to pay their price. I don't foresee any lingering drama as we collectively move on.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app




After all this time pandering to every need under the sun for Ben it hasn’t work out at all. I believe Morey was 100% keen on the deal but management is once again has always been enamored by a hugely flawed player.

He needs to recognize the fact the way he plays hurts the team especially in the playoffs.

The ideal scenario for Ben is a literal fantasy 2k sim to get all the players that fit with him “perfectly.”
And once again your not winning with Ben as your 2nd go to option

Elite 3rd best player sure. But that is his value right now

Teams certainly don’t build around their 3rd best that’s for sure.

I’d rather cater to the actual player that’s a legit MVP/DPOY canidtate every year in his prime as long as he’s healthy which he most certainly is.

Fwiw if I was Thybulle I’d keep my head down and work my ass off to be a legit NBA rotation player before saying anything. But that’s just me I guess

Once side of the coin has ran its race

The other side was always the more valuable one since the beginning.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#70 » by Mik317 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:29 pm

its hillarious that some of yall got your asses blown out yestarday are right back at it assuming we can just go get stars lol.

I think a lot of the angst is that some seem to think that getting Harden was just as easy as asking. That being the easy backup plan for yall dreams is why some are so sad right now.

You cannot think Ben is the WOAT and then expect to just be able to get whatever you want for him lol. I saw a tweet that bashed Ben and then said we should just trade him for Steph...like thats just as easy as breathing or something.

Its time to realize that we are "stuck" with Ben and people need to start accepting that and hoping for internal improvement or fringe moves. To be stupidly optimistic....Morey got Harden via a steal. **** happens all the time and its often not what you expect it to be. Look at it this way, the team, while not a contender IMO, is waaaay better than last year by virtue of shooters and Embiid not being a chunky sad boy all the time. We have won games this year that we would have not won last year or the years prior. Yes Ben's performance is disappointing as hell and lord knows I am tired of his drive and not even look at the rim ****. Hell Maxey seems like a god probably just by virtue of having someone who can dribble into the paint seems like some high level tech..... BUT the team is still improved. Tobias is un ****; Shake continues to improve and Dwight while a spastic weirdo is the best back up we have had. Its not the flashy obvious improvement but the team lowkey solved a lot of the common issues IMO. This doom and gloom feels a bit overdone ATM based off of what we have seen so far. **** can always go south of course...and knowing this franchise it probably will but trust me as a person who struggles with anxiety and depression, its not wise to just assume the worst all the time.

save that for later when Embiid decides to join Kyrie on his mystic quest.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#71 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:32 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
76ciology wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?

He was on the block not because he was unwanted, so I dont think it’s going to be much of a deal.

It’s in his best interest to stick with the team. Because it is his best chance to get a supermax.


Um, well... I'm not sure about unwanted. We were prepared to trade him lol.


For Harden.

Unwanted for me is more like actively shopping Ben. Which is not the case IMO.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#72 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:42 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
ankle420breaker wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?
We weren't actively dangling him and pursuing Simmons trades. I think Ben is able to wrap his head around being involved in a scenario where a superstar hits the market and outwardly conveys his interest in coming to Philadelphia.

This isn't the regime of yesteryear. Doc and Daryl have gone on record saying they're content with the current roster and in the end weren't willing to take such a massive swing to pay their price. I don't foresee any lingering drama as we collectively move on.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app




After all this time pandering to every need under the sun for Ben it hasn’t work out at all. I believe Morey was 100% keen on the deal but management is once again has always been enamored by a hugely flawed player.

He needs to recognize the fact the way he plays hurts the team especially in the playoffs.

The ideal scenario for Ben is a literal fantasy 2k sim to get all the players that fit with him “perfectly.”
And once again your not winning with Ben as your 2nd go to option

Elite 3rd best player sure. But that is his value right now

Teams certainly don’t build around their 3rd best that’s for sure.

I’d rather cater to the actual player that’s a legit MVP/DPOY canidtate every year in his prime as long as he’s healthy which he most certainly is.

Fwiw if I was Thybulle I’d keep my head down and work my ass off to be a legit NBA rotation player before saying anything. But that’s just me I guess

Once side of the coin has ran its race

The other side was always the more valuable one since the beginning.


I dont think management was the reason.

I just think that, unlike Nets, Nets can really make a quantum leap from their position (already have two superstars) after going all in for Harden. Unlike us.

Nets have better risk vs reward ratio than us doing a deal that would require us to give like 4 draft picks and 4 pick swaps.

Rox got Dipo, Exum and 4 draft picks and 4 pick swaps. I say they’re asking just or very near to as many picks.

Imagine us trading Ben, Thybulle and 4 draft picks and 4 pick swaps. Short term, you don’t make that quantum leap Nets did. Long term, you risk being a mediocre team while Biid is post his peak.

You’re looking at Biid at age 31 with no draft picks and likely 1-2 borderline stars. That’s like the Orlando Magic right now with Vuc, Fournier and Fultz.

The more I think of Ben, I think he’s more of a third star. This brought me peace and acceptance. Second stars can still carry a team on his shoulder like AD or PG or Kyrie. Not Ben. Ben is more like an accessory, he makes Biid or your second star great.

I do think we need to trade for Beal or Lavine with Tobias and assets. But if not, you better hope one of Seth, Milton, Maxey or Tobi becomes a 2nd star. Because once Biid is slowed down by elite defense or he gets cold, you’re in deep sh*t.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#73 » by sixers hoops » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:44 pm

TTP wrote:
sixers hoops wrote:
TTP wrote:
We had the best 5 man unit in the league at that point. I'm not sure how they could impress you if that doesn't do it.

There was very much evidence that we could be a great team. It was far from guaranteed but that early performance was about as great of an indicator as you could reasonably expect to have.

Everyone brings up that the schedule was weak but it's been quite a long time since we've dominated anyone like that for an extended stretch. Even some of the games that were close (first Wizards game, Raptors) were only close because we shot way under expectation from 3 and the other team shot well.


Best five man unit against teams we won’t see in the playoffs. I’m not impressed when we beat up on bad teams. Instead of “indicators” that we can be great, I will wait to see how we actually do against good teams. I don’t believe this “evidence” that we can be a great team. We are still eliminated in the second round in my estimation, and those early season games didn’t change that at all for me.


Interesting that you chose the word still, because a few months ago, we were not a second round playoff team. We were a swept in the first round playoff team without much future financial flexibility. Embiid wasn't dominating. Tobias Harris was looking really rough.

To go from that to a 7-1 start with MVP level production from Embiid, All Star level production from Tobias Harris, a deep and productive bench, and what looks to be a fluid offense and top tier defense, is quite impressive to me, regardless of who the games were against.

Even more impressive is that the new lineup gelled so quickly with such a limited offseason. I would have expected a much slower start and they've exceeded expectations. Imagine how they'll look as they get more and more used to playing with each other.


I agree with that point. I was replying to the thought that we possibly don’t need to make changes because we were 7-1. Ultimately that start did nothing to show me we are a contender. Just a good team beating up on bad teams.

When you say imagine how they will look when they get used to playing together, I’m still imagining a second round team. Better than last season’s disaster, but not advancing further than Embiid and Simmons previous high of second round.

I wouldn’t rush into any moves right now, but this team as constructed doesn’t have enough talent.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#74 » by Lou_23 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:45 pm

Embiid+Beal isnt a contender team
Embiid+Lavine isnt a contender team
Embiid+Beal+Simmons is a contender team
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#75 » by Kobblehead » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:47 pm

It's a seller's market. Why not put Simmons on it? We've already hurt the relationship by dangling him for Harden.

I wouldn't mind taking a package of expirings, young scorers and future 1sts for Simmons.

Something like Otto Porter, Coby White, Chandler Hutchinson, and two future 1st rounders or something.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#76 » by 76ciology » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:49 pm

If your goal is to win a championship, Ben is not a 2nd star.

Not always but frequently, a championship teams has to have their first and second star to be atleast be able to carry a team on their own. We all know everyone has their off nights, we need someone who can carry the team if our top guy is struggling, neutralized or simply not feeling it.

Like Pippen when MJ decided to play baseball.

We need that 2nd star. And there are a couple of guys that looks to be on a discount with Lavine and Beal.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#77 » by Stanford » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:49 pm

Kobblehead wrote:It's a seller's market. Why not put Simmons on it? We've already hurt the relationship by dangling him for Harden.

I wouldn't mind taking a package of expirings, young scorers and future 1sts for Simmons.


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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#78 » by Stanford » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:51 pm

76ciology wrote:We need that 2nd star. And there are a couple of guys that looks to be on a discount with Lavine and Beal.


Have we become so miserable as to think Zach LaVine is a championship caliber Second Star?

We are so screwed, guys.
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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#79 » by ankle420breaker » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:52 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
ankle420breaker wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Now that the dust has settled is anyone worried about Ben and Thybulle having attitudes given that they were on the trade block? Ben especially might feel slighted. The reports are that he's relieved, but he might actually be pissed. Better hope that this doesn't create a rift with the organization. Doesn't this actually increase the odds of him getting traded given that Morey originally came out saying we're not trading Ben, and then ofcourse yesterday happens? Not a good look and I feel like damage control can only go so far. What are people's thoughts on this?
We weren't actively dangling him and pursuing Simmons trades. I think Ben is able to wrap his head around being involved in a scenario where a superstar hits the market and outwardly conveys his interest in coming to Philadelphia.

This isn't the regime of yesteryear. Doc and Daryl have gone on record saying they're content with the current roster and in the end weren't willing to take such a massive swing to pay their price. I don't foresee any lingering drama as we collectively move on.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app




After all this time pandering to every need under the sun for Ben it hasn’t work out at all. I believe Morey was 100% keen on the deal but management is once again has always been enamored by a hugely flawed player.

He needs to recognize the fact the way he plays hurts the team especially in the playoffs.

The ideal scenario for Ben is a literal fantasy 2k sim to get all the players that fit with him “perfectly.”
And once again your not winning with Ben as your 2nd go to option

Elite 3rd best player sure. But that is his value right now

Teams certainly don’t build around their 3rd best that’s for sure.

I’d rather cater to the actual player that’s a legit MVP/DPOY canidtate every year in his prime as long as he’s healthy which he most certainly is.

Fwiw if I was Thybulle I’d keep my head down and work my ass off to be a legit NBA rotation player before saying anything. But that’s just me I guess

Once side of the coin has ran its race

The other side was always the more valuable one since the beginning.
Sure he's flawed, but there's also a reason why teams are willing to trade for him. Houston felt obligated to haul an unrealistic load from Daryl as they weren't going to hand Harden to their former architect. Its unfortunate, but the deal points weren't right and Morey chose not to overpay.

We still have a savvy GM with some trade flexibility while currently sitting top 2 in the East. The sky isn't falling.

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Re: So what's the pivot? (Beal, Lavine, or smaller moves)? - Post Harden ideas and Rumors 

Post#80 » by Kobblehead » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:52 pm

Porter gives us an immediate starting defensive F to help mitigate the loss of Simmons. He also provides spacing. White bolsters our 2nd unit and triples our odds of developing a star offensive player that can be a #1 perimeter option (Milton, Maxey, White). Hutchinson is a big wing with shotcreation talent. Sneaky late bloomer star potential.

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