ImageImageImage

Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series)

Moderators: HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, sixers hoops, Sixerscan, Foshan

Chocolate or Thunder?
Senior
Posts: 511
And1: 4
Joined: Jun 03, 2004

Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#1 » by Chocolate or Thunder? » Wed Feb 3, 2021 3:19 pm

I'm looking at this Brooklyn squad and their offense is non-stop. Even with them being thee absolute worst defense ever, we can't score at the rate they do.

Last night they played a little bit of D and they ended up winning. My concern is while we are a well-balanced team, I feel like we need a little more offense. Maybe the offense can come off the bench or replace D. Green with someone via trade.

Either way, if we are going to the finals something may need to be done to ensure we get past this group unless Milwaukee gets them first.

I had a hypothetical in mind but know that it's fantasy. But what if....we traded for J. Grant from the Pistons. He's the perfect fit at the 3 replacing D. Green. He can shoot now, he's long, and would fit in defensively like a glove.
zaz102
Junior
Posts: 378
And1: 127
Joined: Nov 08, 2016

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#2 » by zaz102 » Wed Feb 3, 2021 3:38 pm

I agree with you. It's going to be tough to stop KD, Harden, and Kyrie. Possible but unlikely.

I would give them a chance if they added a scorer (Grant-like) and added a stretch 4/5 to help the bench and optimize Ben. Or if they traded Ben for someone who can make a significant impact like Harden (maybe Beal).

All the moves above are going to be tough without draining our assets. Thankfully we have Morey at the helm.

Still not sure about Doc (I think talent is much more important than coach), but the changes in the Pacers game left a good impression on me.
ExplosionsInDaSky
RealGM
Posts: 15,769
And1: 1,414
Joined: Mar 17, 2004

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#3 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Wed Feb 3, 2021 3:41 pm

I doubt Detroit will part with Grant, but he'd be more than welcome here. In fact, he's exactly what we need.
To answer your question...Man....I don't know. I think it's a little early to worry about it. I think Brooklyn is a great team and they can definitely get to the finals, but they are also skating on thin ice with Harden, Durant, and Irving. Durant looks like he's back, but you never know with him. He's suffered injuries in the past at crucial times. They could be deep into the 2nd round of the playoffs and all of a sudden dude breaks an ankle or sprains a knee. As great as Durant is, he's like Embiid for us. You hold your breath when he plays because $h!t happens with this dude.
Irving has had his injury issues as well and on top of that he's never stable or reliable. The dude could just go AWOL out of nowhere because he thinks aliens are after him from a flat parallel dimension realm and it's causing him anxiety. He just needs to watch some anime find his Woosah and he'll be back. Harden is really the only constant for them, he alone can keep them competitive, but if Durant and Irving aren't there he's the type to simply check out like he did last season against the Lakers. Without any changes on our part, you're hoping that Brooklyn falters either mentally or physically and while a win is a win, it'll always be the excuse.

In short, our defense will have to be on point. We do have the defensive cast to get this done. Mattise, Green, Simmons, Dwight, and of course Embiid is capable. I really hope we add one more defensive bulldog to this team though and PJ Tucker gets my vote. He can fill a big void for us at either forward spot. He's physical, the guy can body up on guys like Giannis and Lebron, he can push KD around, he can hit an open three on offense. I don't know what's not to like other than he's a bit older, but he wont be asked to play 35 minutes a night either. He would just make us all the more meaner and tougher on defense. I think the only way you're going to get past an offensive monster like Brooklyn is to bully them early 90's Detroit/New York style. Obviously we can't beat the crap out of them like they could back then, but big strong, athletic defenders that can hit shots on the other end is the key. That along with smart offensive sets on the other end. Obviously we can't have turnovers, and someone will have to create for us in the halfcourt. Other than that, get the ball in JoJo's hands because right now nobody in this league can stop him and if he's healthy for the playoffs, nobody will stop him then either.
youngcrev
RealGM
Posts: 23,802
And1: 5,426
Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Philadelphia(ish)
   

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#4 » by youngcrev » Wed Feb 3, 2021 3:58 pm

Maybe. They'd certainly be the favorites, but not prohibitively so.

Aside from the defense, there's obviously also some major potential for injury there. Kyrie's got a long injury history (mental and physical), KD is getting up there in age and coming off a major injury, Harden's getting up there. Don't forget how Toronto won a title.

As for whether we need more firepower, I think that's true in general, not just in relation to the Nets.

As for Grant specifically, I don't buy him as a major offensive weapon in spite of the counting stats. He's certainly made leaps, but I don't think he's what this team needs, nor do I think the Pistons would be interested in moving him.
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 46,705
And1: 10,614
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#5 » by Stanford » Wed Feb 3, 2021 4:12 pm

Probably 70/30 Brooklyn. But 30 is a pretty good percentage.

On Jerami Grant: Is he even a plus defender?
Image
HotelVitale
General Manager
Posts: 9,751
And1: 5,232
Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Location: West Philly, PA

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#6 » by HotelVitale » Wed Feb 3, 2021 4:22 pm

Very unlikely, KD is so good right now that he basically can't be stopped, and the only real weaknesses in Kyrie's and Harden's is running hot/cold (especially if they're being doubled) and now they can just trade off when one of them is feeling it. And the spacing is pretty scary, Harris, KD, and Kyrie on the perimeter while Harden is driving is a nightmare.

Our defense can definitely make things harder on them (esp Kyrie and Harden) but we'd really just need them to miss enough pretty good/open shots to win a 7 game series. Our defense isn't special enough that it could greatly slow them, and even being optimistic our offense still looks like it won't be juggernaut enough to keep up with them.
VDT
Analyst
Posts: 3,100
And1: 1,897
Joined: Oct 13, 2018

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#7 » by VDT » Wed Feb 3, 2021 4:40 pm

It is still early in the season. We will have a better idea after the trade deadline when teams will have the playoffs rosters and we will have a larger sample size on the individual players.

Right now my guess would be that, assuming the Nets make some moves, we would need the Nets to do something wrong in order to win. If they play as a team and dont have Kyrie hijack the offense for example it will be hard to beat them. Even if Embiid continues playing like now, it is hard to see how the offense will keep up when he sits.
rulebook
Sophomore
Posts: 123
And1: 50
Joined: Mar 13, 2012

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#8 » by rulebook » Wed Feb 3, 2021 4:44 pm

HotelVitale wrote:Very unlikely, KD is so good right now that he basically can't be stopped, and the only real weaknesses in Kyrie's and Harden's is running hot/cold (especially if they're being doubled) and now they can just trade off when one of them is feeling it. And the spacing is pretty scary, Harris, KD, and Kyrie on the perimeter while Harden is driving is a nightmare.

Our defense can definitely make things harder on them (esp Kyrie and Harden) but we'd really just need them to miss enough pretty good/open shots to win a 7 game series. Our defense isn't special enough that it could greatly slow them, and even being optimistic our offense still looks like it won't be juggernaut enough to keep up with them.


Agree with this, and of course the consensus that we are a scorer and a stretch 4/5 away from any real shot (particularly the former).

No changes, and assuming the Nets stay healthy, the Sixers probably have a 25% chance in a 7 game series. At best.

Add the right pieces, and we could be looking at 40%.

Get on it, Morey.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 46,549
And1: 14,708
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#9 » by 76ciology » Wed Feb 3, 2021 6:10 pm

Let me sum it up for you

76ciology wrote:Watch the Clippers-Nets game so you can understand why we need a Lavine or Beal.

The game is basically “garbage to normal” until teams starts “trading baskets” with iso, 2 man game or post in the last 18 to 12 minutes of the game.

You need to have the fire power to match. Then have the defense to pull away.

Nets big 3 scored 90pts against, Kawhi, PG and Batum. So dont expect defense to allow you to match with their offense. Defense is for pulling away.


The league wants the game to played this way.

It’s an allstar game feel. 1v1. Star players showcasing their talent for long stretches.



Nets number one in pts and fg% and number 2 in point differential during crunch time (margin 6pts or less with less than 12 mins or so in the game).

We dont expect Biid to struggle against the Nets. But I dont expect our offense to be that good enough to play the game the league wants teams to play down the stretch that Nets is very good at.

But in a one game sample size, anything can happen. But in a 7 game sample size, I expect games to be close and Nets being too much for us on offense.
“If anyone can refute me—show me I'm making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective—I'll gladly change. It's the truth I'm after, and the truth never harmed anyone." Marcus Aurelius.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 46,549
And1: 14,708
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#10 » by 76ciology » Wed Feb 3, 2021 6:13 pm

How to beat Brooklyn.

You have to reach a certain level on offense, not necessarily as good as Brooklyn. You can achieve that by getting a #2 guy or make high variance guys like Shake, Seth or Maxey to score like stars because they have hot hands. Its similar to what Clips did with Morris, Lou Will and Reggie Jackson. Another thing to consider is to run 1-3 PnR, then let Tobi keep attacking Kyrie’s defense on him.

Then once you reached that level, you need defense and intangibles (extra possessions) to pull it away for you. A thing to consider on defense is zone defense, which I saw the Heat killed Celts’ heavy ISO game in the 2020 playoffs.

Here’s something to think about. Would you put Seth on the game? Because Harden, KD and Kyrie will all hunt him.
“If anyone can refute me—show me I'm making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective—I'll gladly change. It's the truth I'm after, and the truth never harmed anyone." Marcus Aurelius.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 31,777
And1: 13,906
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#11 » by Sixerscan » Wed Feb 3, 2021 6:48 pm

30% feels right. We'll see what Morey does.
Tomjas
Starter
Posts: 2,112
And1: 1,879
Joined: Nov 04, 2017
 

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#12 » by Tomjas » Wed Feb 3, 2021 7:00 pm

They’re an awful defensive unit and aren’t winning anything without changes

Anyway, no point getting ahead of ourselves

Last year’s team was designed to beat the Bucks and neither team came close to getting out of the East
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 46,549
And1: 14,708
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#13 » by 76ciology » Wed Feb 3, 2021 7:24 pm

Tomjas wrote:They’re an awful defensive unit and aren’t winning anything without changes

Anyway, no point getting ahead of ourselves

Last year’s team was designed to beat the Bucks and neither team came close to getting out of the East


Well.. you dont need much defense in stopping anyone, except for Embiid, on our team from scoring lol

They just need to add some banger C by trade deadline and they’ll be fine.

The guys on their team like Harden and KD can also turn it up on defense if they want to.
“If anyone can refute me—show me I'm making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective—I'll gladly change. It's the truth I'm after, and the truth never harmed anyone." Marcus Aurelius.
Tomjas
Starter
Posts: 2,112
And1: 1,879
Joined: Nov 04, 2017
 

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#14 » by Tomjas » Wed Feb 3, 2021 7:27 pm

76ciology wrote:
Tomjas wrote:They’re an awful defensive unit and aren’t winning anything without changes

Anyway, no point getting ahead of ourselves

Last year’s team was designed to beat the Bucks and neither team came close to getting out of the East


Well.. you dont need much defense in stopping anyone, except for Embiid, on our team from scoring lol

They just need to add some banger C by trade deadline and they’ll be fine.

The guys on their team like Harden and KD can also turn it up on defense if they want to.


They’ve been hammered by teams like the Cavs

Let’s not pretend that they’re an unstoppable juggernaut
youngcrev
RealGM
Posts: 23,802
And1: 5,426
Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Location: Philadelphia(ish)
   

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#15 » by youngcrev » Wed Feb 3, 2021 7:34 pm

76ciology wrote:How to beat Brooklyn.

You have to reach a certain level on offense, not necessarily as good as Brooklyn. You can achieve that by getting a #2 guy or make high variance guys like Shake, Seth or Maxey to score like stars because they have hot hands. Its similar to what Clips did with Morris, Lou Will and Reggie Jackson. Another thing to consider is to run 1-3 PnR, then let Tobi keep attacking Kyrie’s defense on him.

Then once you reached that level, you need defense and intangibles (extra possessions) to pull it away for you. A thing to consider on defense is zone defense, which I saw the Heat killed Celts’ heavy ISO game in the 2020 playoffs.

Here’s something to think about. Would you put Seth on the game? Because Harden, KD and Kyrie will all hunt him.


I'm not sure a zone would be that effective against those guys. Too much shooting (those 3 plus Harris), too much BBIQ.

Then again, I'm not sure any defense would be that effective.

I think you just have to ask guys to do the best they can individually and hope Jo can limit them at the rim. I'd put Danny on Harden since he's got the most foul discipline of our perimeter defenders. I'd put Ben on Kyrie, and have to live with Tobias on KD since I don't like the alternative. Let Curry chase Harris around and have Jo roam the paint with whoever the Nets are throwing out there (hopefully they don't find a quality stretch 5 in the meantime).

Offensively I think you try to control the pace (not gonna win a track meet with those guys), play through Jo and take what the defense gives you. They certainly can't guard him one on one, and I don't imagine they'd be too good at scrambling to shooters with Kyrie and Harden on the floor.
elchengue20
Rookie
Posts: 1,027
And1: 710
Joined: Aug 17, 2013

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#16 » by elchengue20 » Wed Feb 3, 2021 7:52 pm

Very low chances.They just need someone to bang with Embiid and their defense is going to be fine.Offensively they are just too much.

If we don't get at least one elite perimeter scorer who can break down the defense, we won't get far in the Playoffs. They have 3 of them.
elchengue20
Rookie
Posts: 1,027
And1: 710
Joined: Aug 17, 2013

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#17 » by elchengue20 » Wed Feb 3, 2021 7:56 pm

76ciology wrote:Let me sum it up for you

76ciology wrote:Watch the Clippers-Nets game so you can understand why we need a Lavine or Beal.

The game is basically “garbage to normal” until teams starts “trading baskets” with iso, 2 man game or post in the last 18 to 12 minutes of the game.

You need to have the fire power to match. Then have the defense to pull away.

Nets big 3 scored 90pts against, Kawhi, PG and Batum. So dont expect defense to allow you to match with their offense. Defense is for pulling away.


The league wants the game to played this way.

It’s an allstar game feel. 1v1. Star players showcasing their talent for long stretches.



Nets number one in pts and fg% and number 2 in point differential during crunch time (margin 6pts or less with less than 12 mins or so in the game).

We dont expect Biid to struggle against the Nets. But I dont expect our offense to be that good enough to play the game the league wants teams to play down the stretch that Nets is very good at.

But in a one game sample size, anything can happen. But in a 7 game sample size, I expect games to be close and Nets being too much for us on offense.



Exactly. The league has been made for perimeter scorers to excel. You need them to win. It's the result of 30+ years of rule changes and the subsequent evolution of the game.

Don't know why people don't understand this. Embiid is great but it's not enough. We need that kind of player. Hell, even Embiid is playing somewhat like a perimeter player. It's just how 2020 NBA basketball is meant to be, we like it or not.
zaz102
Junior
Posts: 378
And1: 127
Joined: Nov 08, 2016

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#18 » by zaz102 » Wed Feb 3, 2021 8:26 pm

elchengue20 wrote:
76ciology wrote:Let me sum it up for you

76ciology wrote:Watch the Clippers-Nets game so you can understand why we need a Lavine or Beal.

The game is basically “garbage to normal” until teams starts “trading baskets” with iso, 2 man game or post in the last 18 to 12 minutes of the game.

You need to have the fire power to match. Then have the defense to pull away.

Nets big 3 scored 90pts against, Kawhi, PG and Batum. So dont expect defense to allow you to match with their offense. Defense is for pulling away.


The league wants the game to played this way.

It’s an allstar game feel. 1v1. Star players showcasing their talent for long stretches.



Nets number one in pts and fg% and number 2 in point differential during crunch time (margin 6pts or less with less than 12 mins or so in the game).

We dont expect Biid to struggle against the Nets. But I dont expect our offense to be that good enough to play the game the league wants teams to play down the stretch that Nets is very good at.

But in a one game sample size, anything can happen. But in a 7 game sample size, I expect games to be close and Nets being too much for us on offense.



Exactly. The league has been made for perimeter scorers to excel. You need them to win. It's the result of 30+ years of rule changes and the subsequent evolution of the game.

Don't know why people don't understand this. Embiid is great but it's not enough. We need that kind of player. Hell, even Embiid is playing somewhat like a perimeter player. It's just how 2020 NBA basketball is meant to be, we like it or not.
To be fair, I think a majority in this thread said something along these lines. There aren't too many people being unrealistic favoring the Sixers.
LloydFree
RealGM
Posts: 15,024
And1: 10,853
Joined: Aug 20, 2012
Location: Somewhere near the Jersey Turnpike, between exit 4 and 15E

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#19 » by LloydFree » Wed Feb 3, 2021 9:11 pm

If the Nets are healthy? No. The 76ers won't beat them head to head.

But I'm not really worried about them. Especially if the 76ers get a top 2 seed. It will be miracle, if all 3 of Durant, Kyrie and Harden are healthy for the ECF, in July. Kyrie has missed time, usually late, in nearly every season since he came into the league. Durant is playing 40 minutes, has plantar and is recovering from a separate serious injury. If Durant's not healthy, they're not beating anybody. I give it a 20% chance that both Durant and Kyrie are available for the ECF.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
Snotbubbles
Rookie
Posts: 1,187
And1: 946
Joined: Feb 26, 2014
       

Re: Can we Beat Brooklyn (7 game series) 

Post#20 » by Snotbubbles » Wed Feb 3, 2021 10:02 pm

Steve Nash is playing Durant, Harden and Irving so many minutes right now, I'll wait until the playoffs roll around to see if those guys still have legs left. I also want to see who they pick up to fill out their bench.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers