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Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth.

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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#21 » by 76ciology » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:19 pm

I’d like to give you guys an example.

Watch the game 7 of the Nuggets vs Clipper series during the bubble.

Jokic was playing well.

Paul George and Kawhi can’t generate offense.

What did Doc do? He played Montrezl Harrell at center (he got a lot of criticisms for this). Zubac isnt slowing down Jokic anyway. Might as well insert Harrell and hopefully he spur the offense.

In the end, clips lose. But I’d be on with that loss because he played the hand his dealt well.

There will be times when Seth wont be making his shots. And in those times, we can have Shake, Green, Furkan, Hill or Thybulle to play in his place.

Maybe it’s down the stretch on a do or die game while Ben and Tobi have their usual meh performance. Maybe we then can play Hill-Shake-Green-Furkan-Embiid? Who knows..

Who cares if we aren’t starting with our best 5.

The game is not won in the first quarter.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#22 » by 9th Wonder » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:25 pm

No question he's improved significantly, especially his awareness and activity on defence. I don't see the need to move him into the starting lineup, but it will be interesting to see what effect playing with George Hill has on his game. His low efficiency and the huge disparity in his production with Ben/Jo vs the bench must have something to do with the fact that he's forced to run two man action with Dwight Howard.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#23 » by TTP » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:46 pm

76ciology wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:
76ciology wrote:I also find Furkan to be better in running those sets we run for JJ like those DHO with Biid and invert screens for Ben. I believe we were grooming Furk to replace JJ last season.

But here’s the thing. I do think we should stick with our rotation while having the luxury to insert guys better than Seth off the bench, based on match-ups and controlling the rhythm of the game (momentums). And you wont max out the roster by not starting Seth. Because it’s only when Seth plays with Biid and Ben where both guys can’t make up for his deficiency where we can make him bigger than who he is.

Stick with our starting unit but increase PT for Furkan.


When Furkan is in the lineup with Ben and Joel he shoots 54% and 43% from 3 as opposed to shooting just 36% and 34% from 3 In The none Joel and Ben lineups.


True.

But I know Doc. He doesnt put his best foot forward.

He’s an old school guy like Doug Collins who likes to have multiple cards on his sleeve that he wants to use to change the game’s momentum.

I mean, this is exaggerated but i wouldnt be surprised if Doc would play James Harden off the bench. And end the game with Harden and Embiid.

I kind of like that for a coach. The game has many layers to it and Doc knows what he is doing.


???

No....I can't even...just no.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#24 » by TTP » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:47 pm

9th Wonder wrote:No question he's improved significantly, especially his awareness and activity on defence. I don't see the need to move him into the starting lineup, but it will be interesting to see what effect playing with George Hill has on his game. His low efficiency and the huge disparity in his production with Ben/Jo vs the bench must have something to do with the fact that he's forced to run two man action with Dwight Howard.


It's a small sample size and most players are going to be more productive playing alongside better players that just have more gravity and make their jobs easier.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#25 » by Negrodamus » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:49 pm

If we're gleaning information off of lineups, we should do more of Seth, Shake, Tobi, Ben, and Embiid since they seem to be the best grouping by a decent margin, at least offensively:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2021/lineups/
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#26 » by Sixerscan » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:52 pm

The lesson you should get from Furkan is that you can take a young player, give him some playing time and develop him into becoming a cheap role player. Next year they should try to do the same with Joe.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#27 » by youngcrev » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:23 pm

Kork has been solid, but I don't see why you'd want him starting over Curry. They're both minus defensive shooters that provide little else, and Seth is better at both. Kork's got the quicker, higher release, but Seth's more efficient and better on ball.

Kork's next contract will be interesting. I don't expect him to be back, but he could wind up being a legit starting caliber player down the line if he continues to work on his body and improves his efficiency. Kinda crazy how young he still is, and I feel like players in his mold tend to get better as they age and get more crafty. He's still figuring out what he can and can't get away with on the court, as you can see every time he hits a couple of shots and gets overconfident with what he's capable of on ball.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#28 » by elchengue20 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:41 pm

Don't think he should start but i always liked Kork game.He can be a legit rotation player.

We have a similar prospect in Joe, who i think has a slightly higher ceiling.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#29 » by Zumramania » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:43 pm

76ciology wrote:I’d like to give you guys an example.

Watch the game 7 of the Nuggets vs Clipper series during the bubble.

Jokic was playing well.

Paul George and Kawhi can’t generate offense.

What did Doc do? He played Montrezl Harrell at center (he got a lot of criticisms for this). Zubac isnt slowing down Jokic anyway. Might as well insert Harrell and hopefully he spur the offense.

In the end, clips lose. But I’d be on with that loss because he played the hand his dealt well.

There will be times when Seth wont be making his shots. And in those times, we can have Shake, Green, Furkan, Hill or Thybulle to play in his place.

Maybe it’s down the stretch on a do or die game while Ben and Tobi have their usual meh performance. Maybe we then can play Hill-Shake-Green-Furkan-Embiid? Who knows..

Who cares if we aren’t starting with our best 5.

The game is not won in the first quarter.


I would disagree with this - Zubac is a solid defensive big, especially against other bigs.

"Let’s start with some defensive stats to back this claim up. As of Nov. 5, Zubac has a defensive rating of 96.3 (When paired with starters Patrick Beverley and Kawhi Leonard, that super low defensive rating gets even lower to 92.) and a net rating of 8.6. Outside of averaging 9.5 minutes in 43 games for a tanking Lakers squad two seasons ago, those are both career highs. He is doing this against centers like LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gobert, and Cody Zeller, who shot a combined 5-for-17 when Zu was guarding them." - this is a quote from November 2019
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#30 » by 76ciology » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:25 pm

Zumramania wrote:
76ciology wrote:I’d like to give you guys an example.

Watch the game 7 of the Nuggets vs Clipper series during the bubble.

Jokic was playing well.

Paul George and Kawhi can’t generate offense.

What did Doc do? He played Montrezl Harrell at center (he got a lot of criticisms for this). Zubac isnt slowing down Jokic anyway. Might as well insert Harrell and hopefully he spur the offense.

In the end, clips lose. But I’d be on with that loss because he played the hand his dealt well.

There will be times when Seth wont be making his shots. And in those times, we can have Shake, Green, Furkan, Hill or Thybulle to play in his place.

Maybe it’s down the stretch on a do or die game while Ben and Tobi have their usual meh performance. Maybe we then can play Hill-Shake-Green-Furkan-Embiid? Who knows..

Who cares if we aren’t starting with our best 5.

The game is not won in the first quarter.


I would disagree with this - Zubac is a solid defensive big, especially against other bigs.

"Let’s start with some defensive stats to back this claim up. As of Nov. 5, Zubac has a defensive rating of 96.3 (When paired with starters Patrick Beverley and Kawhi Leonard, that super low defensive rating gets even lower to 92.) and a net rating of 8.6. Outside of averaging 9.5 minutes in 43 games for a tanking Lakers squad two seasons ago, those are both career highs. He is doing this against centers like LaMarcus Aldridge, Rudy Gobert, and Cody Zeller, who shot a combined 5-for-17 when Zu was guarding them." - this is a quote from November 2019


My bad there. You’re right on Jokic.

Jokic only had 16pts but Murray had 40.

On the clips side Kawhi and George only scored 24pts COMBINED. Lou Will only scored 7. They more scoring than offense at that game. So they inserted Harrell and he had 20 that game. 20 was like Kawhi and George’s combined scoring. That was really a drought.

With the Clips Doc has two gears to increase his offensive power. Aside from having Kawhi and PG, He adds Lou. If that is not enough, he adds Harrell.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#31 » by Hussien Fatal » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:51 pm

youngcrev wrote:Kork has been solid, but I don't see why you'd want him starting over Curry. They're both minus defensive shooters that provide little else, and Seth is better at both. Kork's got the quicker, higher release, but Seth's more efficient and better on ball.

Kork's next contract will be interesting. I don't expect him to be back, but he could wind up being a legit starting caliber player down the line if he continues to work on his body and improves his efficiency. Kinda crazy how young he still is, and I feel like players in his mold tend to get better as they age and get more crafty. He's still figuring out what he can and can't get away with on the court, as you can see every time he hits a couple of shots and gets overconfident with what he's capable of on ball.


I already stated in the op why I think he should be starting, he performs extremely well alongside joel and Ben and if he gets off to a hot start we could really bury teams quickly. You say Seth is better on ball but you regret to mention how much Furkan has improved in that area. He now has a resemblance of mid range game, he has showed off his pull up from mid range more than enough this season. He is also a better defender. Seth is too small, Furkan has gotten stronger and he looks to have improved his athleticism this year as well. Furkan provides size and gravity as well as better defense.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#32 » by LloydFree » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:06 pm

Bye bye Furkan Korkmaz and Mike Scott. Isaiah Joe and Paul Reed are up next.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#33 » by youngcrev » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:11 pm

Hussien Fatal wrote:
youngcrev wrote:Kork has been solid, but I don't see why you'd want him starting over Curry. They're both minus defensive shooters that provide little else, and Seth is better at both. Kork's got the quicker, higher release, but Seth's more efficient and better on ball.

Kork's next contract will be interesting. I don't expect him to be back, but he could wind up being a legit starting caliber player down the line if he continues to work on his body and improves his efficiency. Kinda crazy how young he still is, and I feel like players in his mold tend to get better as they age and get more crafty. He's still figuring out what he can and can't get away with on the court, as you can see every time he hits a couple of shots and gets overconfident with what he's capable of on ball.


I already stated in the op why I think he should be starting, he performs extremely well alongside joel and Ben and if he gets off to a hot start we could really bury teams quickly. You say Seth is better on ball but you regret to mention how much Furkan has improved in that area. He now has a resemblance of mid range game, he has showed off his pull up from mid range more than enough this season. He is also a better defender. Seth is too small, Furkan has gotten stronger and he looks to have improved his athleticism this year as well. Furkan provides size and gravity as well as better defense.


By the numbers, Seth's one of the best spot up shooters of all time for his career. That's the primary offensive role we're talking about between these 2 players.

There's lineup data that would support what you're proposing, but not by overwhelming amount, and not over a huge sample size (not to mention, there's the factor of bench players getting more minutes in games that they play well in).

Regardless... The starting lineup has been outstanding this year and Curry also benefits from playing with those guys (and vice versa), so I don't imagine they'll be looking at making a change.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#34 » by Hussien Fatal » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:58 pm

LloydFree wrote:Bye bye Furkan Korkmaz and Mike Scott. Isaiah Joe and Paul Reed are up next.



They would be smart to retain Furkan, he has improved every years he’s been in the league. He will be a starter eventually.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#35 » by Negrodamus » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:39 am

I’ll reiterate, Shake playing with the starters is much better than Furk. Why wouldn’t we just do that?
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#36 » by TTP » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:01 am

Hussien Fatal wrote:
youngcrev wrote:Kork has been solid, but I don't see why you'd want him starting over Curry. They're both minus defensive shooters that provide little else, and Seth is better at both. Kork's got the quicker, higher release, but Seth's more efficient and better on ball.

Kork's next contract will be interesting. I don't expect him to be back, but he could wind up being a legit starting caliber player down the line if he continues to work on his body and improves his efficiency. Kinda crazy how young he still is, and I feel like players in his mold tend to get better as they age and get more crafty. He's still figuring out what he can and can't get away with on the court, as you can see every time he hits a couple of shots and gets overconfident with what he's capable of on ball.


I already stated in the op why I think he should be starting, he performs extremely well alongside joel and Ben and if he gets off to a hot start we could really bury teams quickly. You say Seth is better on ball but you regret to mention how much Furkan has improved in that area. He now has a resemblance of mid range game, he has showed off his pull up from mid range more than enough this season. He is also a better defender. Seth is too small, Furkan has gotten stronger and he looks to have improved his athleticism this year as well. Furkan provides size and gravity as well as better defense.


You sure about the bolded?

Korkmaz is taking 61.8% of his shots from 3 this season, the exact same as his career average. He barely takes any shots from mid-range (only 14.3% of his career shots are from 10 ft to the 3 point line) and he shoots poorly there for his career (38.0% from 10-16 feet and 34.7% from 16 to the 3 point line). His percentages are marginally better there this year in a very small sample, but still not very good.

Compare that to Seth, who shoots 26.9% of his career shots from 10 ft to the 3 point line, and shoots excellently there - 52.8% from 10-16 ft and 42.8% from 16 ft to the 3 point line.

Seth is legitimately elite from mid-range and Korkmaz is pretty inefficient there in the rare times he shoots them. People criticize Seth for not shooting 3s quickly, but his ability to pump fake and step in for an uncontested mid-range is pretty money.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#37 » by Eyeamok » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:36 am

I like Furkan and he has been playing better defense these last few games. But leave him as the energy guy coming off the bench. And he is a lock to get fouled on a 3 point shot and miss one. It's like automatic with this guy. At least Seth will hit his free throws.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#38 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:40 am

I'm not fully sold on Korkmaz as a starter. The talent is there though. He's looked very good at times and this has been his most consistent season to date. The thing that really scared me off was how unplayable he was in the postseason. The guy was barbecue chicken on defense and couldn't hit **** on offense. It was a total miss with him in the playoffs.
I really want to see him do well in the playoffs before calling him starter. With that said, I do think he'll have better time out this go around. We're gonna need him to hit some big shots for us. Definitely keep him around. He's got to add a little more strength, but it's all right there. If he can perform in the playoffs, he can become a starter.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#39 » by sixers4real » Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:02 am

I really don’t care who’s starting, but I’m quite sure in a close series, Kork isn’t finishing games.
It’s going to be Embiid Simmons Harris Hill and one of Green / Milton.

But I want Korkmaz to shine, because I think he can be used in a sign and trade deal this summer. I don’t think we are keeping him, he’ll cost around 10M I would guess.
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Re: Furkan Should be Starting Over Seth. 

Post#40 » by Arsenal » Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:09 am

Hussien Fatal wrote:
76ciology wrote:I also find Furkan to be better in running those sets we run for JJ like those DHO with Biid and invert screens for Ben. I believe we were grooming Furk to replace JJ last season.

But here’s the thing. I do think we should stick with our rotation while having the luxury to insert guys better than Seth off the bench, based on match-ups and controlling the rhythm of the game (momentums). And you wont max out the roster by not starting Seth. Because it’s only when Seth plays with Biid and Ben where both guys can’t make up for his deficiency where we can make him bigger than who he is.

Stick with our starting unit but increase PT for Furkan.


When Furkan is in the lineup with Ben and Joel he shoots 54% and 43% from 3 as opposed to shooting just 36% and 34% from 3 In The none Joel and Ben lineups.


This. The reason Seth Curry's numbers are better than Korkmaz is because he plays w/the starters far more often.

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