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Has anyone tried switching on Joel this year?

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Has anyone tried switching on Joel this year? 

Post#1 » by Lockdown504090 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:56 pm

Can you think of a game where a team tried to switch a wing or a power forward on embiid? if so who did the best at attempting to guard? The way this guy is dominating, I wonder if he is just going to break modern defenses in the playoffs the way steph broke conventional defenses.
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Re: Has anyone tried switching on Joel this year? 

Post#2 » by Sixersftw » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:03 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:Can you think of a game where a team tried to switch a wing or a power forward on embiid? if so who did the best at attempting to guard? The way this guy is dominating, I wonder if he is just going to break modern defenses in the playoffs the way steph broke conventional defenses.

No not on purpose. That seems absolutely suicidal defensively. The best you can do is hard commit to doubling, like the raps, and hope that the shooters are having an off night or the Jo messes up getting the ball out which has been far less common this year.

There is a very real chance, if his midrange game holds up and he gets a decent whistle, he's going to absolutely tear through opposing defenses in the Playoffs. All of the defenses in the league are geared towards PnR and closing out on shooters. Then here we come with modern Shaq. It's gonna be fun.
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Re: Has anyone tried switching on Joel this year? 

Post#3 » by Murray_17 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:38 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:Can you think of a game where a team tried to switch a wing or a power forward on embiid? if so who did the best at attempting to guard? The way this guy is dominating, I wonder if he is just going to break modern defenses in the playoffs the way steph broke conventional defenses.


The problem is Embiid is hitting his midrange at elite level, so putting a little guy on him left him open to shot the midrange. He's hitting around 60% from 16-24 feet on volume. Switching and giving him time to get on front of the basket it's suicide, his game this year is molded after Dirk in that sense.

What teams normally do is double early, like immediately when he recive the ball, and try to let him play with his back to the basket. The nets the other day went as far as stop marking Simmons to try to front and double him at the same time. Problem is that would not work with Harris on the floor
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Re: Has anyone tried switching on Joel this year? 

Post#4 » by TTP » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:46 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:Can you think of a game where a team tried to switch a wing or a power forward on embiid? if so who did the best at attempting to guard? The way this guy is dominating, I wonder if he is just going to break modern defenses in the playoffs the way steph broke conventional defenses.


I cannot think of any but addressing your last sentence...the absence of physically dominant bigs in the mid to late 2010s made small ball a natural and effective exploitative strategy adjustment. Just glancing at centers on All-NBA teams from a lot of those years, you're seeing guys like DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah, Anthony Davis, Gobert...other than Cousins, none of these guys were really going to punish you offensively for lack of size, and Cousins was never in the playoffs.

However now that there are some serious high usage, physically dominant forces (not just Embiid but also Zion and to a lesser extent Jokic) I think we'll see some more prioritization of teams employing bigs with size in the way that they did a decade ago to deal with Dwight and Bynum. Kendrick Perkins basically made a career of it, though I expect that they're going to have to be significantly more skilled to stay alive against more sophisticated modern offenses.

I'd imagine the guys that will suffer the most in value will be the undersized rim running centers like Nerlens, Montrezl Harrell, Jarrett Allen, Clint Capela, etc - guys that neither space the floor offensively and also aren't big enough to body up with Embiid on defense.
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Re: Has anyone tried switching on Joel this year? 

Post#5 » by Sixerscan » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:59 pm

Yeah I don't think putting a smaller guy on him would work lol... I get where you're coming from, some teams had success putting a smaller stout guy on Dirk and to a certain extent KD over the years. Embiid would alternate between taking the easy jump shot and just bullying the guy and putting him in the basket.

The best way to neutralize him is (a) have a big bodied center that he can't just immediately physically overpower and (b) have long athletic help defenders that are committed to hard doubling him the second he puts the ball on the court, and then hope he either makes a dumb pass or the other guys on the Sixers don't take advantage of you being in scramble mode. That's why the Raptors and Celtics had the most success limiting him over the years when they had that personnel + a smart coach that were all very familiar with him.
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Re: Has anyone tried switching on Joel this year? 

Post#6 » by Lockdown504090 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:09 pm

TTP wrote:
Lockdown504090 wrote:Can you think of a game where a team tried to switch a wing or a power forward on embiid? if so who did the best at attempting to guard? The way this guy is dominating, I wonder if he is just going to break modern defenses in the playoffs the way steph broke conventional defenses.


I cannot think of any but addressing your last sentence...the absence of physically dominant bigs in the mid to late 2010s made small ball a natural and effective exploitative strategy adjustment. Just glancing at centers on All-NBA teams from a lot of those years, you're seeing guys like DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah, Anthony Davis, Gobert...other than Cousins, none of these guys were really going to punish you offensively for lack of size, and Cousins was never in the playoffs.

However now that there are some serious high usage, physically dominant forces (not just Embiid but also Zion and to a lesser extent Jokic) I think we'll see some more prioritization of teams employing bigs with size in the way that they did a decade ago to deal with Dwight and Bynum. Kendrick Perkins basically made a career of it, though I expect that they're going to have to be significantly more skilled to stay alive against more sophisticated modern offenses.

I'd imagine the guys that will suffer the most in value will be the undersized rim running centers like Nerlens, Montrezl Harrell, Jarrett Allen, Clint Capela, etc - guys that neither space the floor offensively and also aren't big enough to body up with Embiid on defense.

I dont think the 76ers have enough offense to score enough points to beat the nets and maybe the bucks, no disrespect to their talent. I assume Morey will trade the young players and picks for a Cj mucollum level scorer like all the other contenders if it doesnt work out this season.

If that happens, are teams going to put out some kind of defensive brute that messes up their offense to slow down Joel? you almost have to, there are only like 5 guys that are going to get destroyed by him, even if you double.

teams in the east are going to have to sign the dewayne dedmonds of the world and play them 20+mpg in a series, its wild. Its like how teams had to take the big off the floor to guard steph
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Re: Has anyone tried switching on Joel this year? 

Post#7 » by blargh » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:13 pm

You saw this to some extent in the last game against the Nets, where at the end, they had some success guarding Embiid with some combo of Alize Johnson, and Bruce Brown (and some Nic Claxton). The double team came quickly, but they also had a few possessions where they fronted 1-on-1, and we didn’t handle it well.
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Re: Has anyone tried switching on Joel this year? 

Post#8 » by 76ciology » Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:11 am

It wouldnt work because Biid can either drive like Durant, shoot like Dirk or bully his way like shaq.

Your best chance is for him to have an off night with his jumper where he has to rely on bully ball, where spacing with Ben becomes a problem and hopefully you have someone big like Marc Gasol or Baynes
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Re: Has anyone tried switching on Joel this year? 

Post#9 » by 76ciology » Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:23 am

Been thinking about this.

I think OP is referring to a situation similar to when Clips decided to put CP3 on KD and if my memory serves me right, it worked on that series.



Deny, force TOs with traps and limit drives

So he’s saying if it will work if you put someone like Draymond Green, Giannis or Siakam (smart, strong tweener defender with good height to wingspan ratio) who Biid cant use his quickness to drive, be strong enough to not get backed down and would give up and live with the result of his jumpers.

In the end I think it all boils down to whether Biid can hit those jumpers or not. If Biid struggles to hit those jumpers, it’s going to be like 2017-2019 playoffs again IMO.
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