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The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V

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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#161 » by 76ciology » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:53 pm

Ferry Avenue wrote:
sixers4real wrote:Serious question: what did Simmons do wrong In Game 2?

Nothing. But when that's game two against the Nets, it'll be that he scored only 4 points and took only 3 shots, and the Sixers lost 130 to 110.


Let’s cross that bridge when we get there.

Nobody can predict the future nor can we say what is exactly required for an outcome to certainly happen.

Who knows.. we may win that series with Ben scoring single digit but clamping down KD, while our guys gets easy baskets by him being a glue guy that he is.

Just relax for now. He’s doing great at his job for now.

If you want scoring it would be more realistic to look for it with guys like Seth, Tobi and maybe Milton.

Great coaching is about maximizing talent. Let glue guys be glue guys and let scorers be scorers.

Will that be enough? I dont know. But I know thats how you play your cards right. And if it wont be enough, then we explore all options in the offseason.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#162 » by zaz102 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:18 pm

Ferry Avenue wrote:
9th Wonder wrote:I get the frustration with his offensive game. But can we take a minute to appreciate his defensive effort last night? He didn't just shut Trae down, he pretty well took him out of the game. Trae was kept out of the paint. PNRs were pushed to the sideline. He was even straight up taken off the ball for stretches. The Hawks just elected to run secondary stuff because Simmons wouldn't allow Trae to get into anything. It was really impressive.

And with a team with just one threat to pour in 30+ points (i.e., the Hawks with Young), that can be effective. The problem is that the teams winning championships in today's NBA don't have just one of those players. So you can't just shut down one of the multiple of them on those teams and hope to win while getting no scoring from one of your own supposedly great players. The Nets could very well beat this team 130 to 110 on a regular basis. And the missing ~20 points in that scenario are coming from Ben Simmons.
But isnt that like asking Ben Wallace to become a shooter. I wish he was a better offensive player, but he's not and unfortunately haven't shown signs of improving. Hell, he'd be a top player if he was. There's a reason why Nets would be favored to win and it's because they have more than one of those top players. I think you're talking about squeezing blood from a stone.

Reality is that for Sixers have a chance, they need Embiid and their shooters to get hot at the right time not hope Ben to magically become a dominant offensive force. Regardless, I'm sure they're going to be looking for an upgrade in the offseason even if they somehow won.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#163 » by phillybird » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:47 pm

Looks like when the game slows down Ben gets to save his energy on offense (in the dunker spot) so he can use it all on defense. That could work against these Hawks but I don't know if it will cut it against the Nets' You gotta make them work on defense too otherwise their big three get to take plays off.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#164 » by youngcrev » Wed Jun 9, 2021 9:59 pm

phillybird wrote:Looks like when the game slows down Ben gets to save his energy on offense (in the dunker spot) so he can use it all on defense. That could work against these Hawks but I don't know if it will cut it against the Nets' You gotta make them work on defense too otherwise their big three get to take plays off.


A series against the Nets is going to come down to whether Joel Embiid is the most dominant player on the floor and whether the Sixers defense is good enough to slow down the Nets whatsoever.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#165 » by DCasey91 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 10:00 pm

Ben is a roleplayer who impacts the game on various levels based on matchups. Can look like a star all the way down to a non plus it’s just matchup dependent and the doubling effect is himself. There’s confident Ben, and not confident Ben. Basically since rookie year.

I was disappointed in Ben actually last game. I don’t take too much stock in the the scoring department.

But this is the Hawks. This is a team that Ben has a knack of putting up 8-12 points before halftime. Ben has confidence issues. He didn’t press the issue earlier before things got tight after the half. He was super super passive during stretches of the third quarter and got benched in the last. Wasn’t a good look
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#166 » by DCasey91 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 10:06 pm

Wouldn’t mind samll ball roll man Ben with Harris and bench when Capela sits. Could be worth a sneaky play. Hawks are little anyway
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#167 » by 76ciology » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:11 am

DCasey91 wrote:Wouldn’t mind samll ball roll man Ben with Harris and bench when Capela sits. Could be worth a sneaky play. Hawks are little anyway


Yeah but I need Thybulle and Green there. Then maybe we can now put Maxey to run those PnR given there’s also much spacing with that unit.

You run PnR Maxey-Ben. If denied, you then dump the ball to Tobi.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#168 » by DCasey91 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:37 am

76ciology wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:Wouldn’t mind samll ball roll man Ben with Harris and bench when Capela sits. Could be worth a sneaky play. Hawks are little anyway


Yeah but I need Thybulle and Green there. Then maybe we can now put Maxey to run those PnR given there’s also much spacing with that unit.

You run PnR Maxey-Ben. If denied, you then dump the ball to Tobi.


PNR with Maxey + Simmons isn’t good at all, I’d rather Harris + Simmons pnr or Shake going for leather with shooters at each wing.

You don’t really need a center vs the Hawks when Capela sits or go the big with Howard + Harris (Curry/Milton/Green/ Hill/Korkmaz) and Shooters that are hot, either way ballhandlers and shooters one only one non shooting threat should be on the floor anymore then that the offense can get anemic.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#169 » by 76ciology » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:47 am

DCasey91 wrote:
76ciology wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:Wouldn’t mind samll ball roll man Ben with Harris and bench when Capela sits. Could be worth a sneaky play. Hawks are little anyway


Yeah but I need Thybulle and Green there. Then maybe we can now put Maxey to run those PnR given there’s also much spacing with that unit.

You run PnR Maxey-Ben. If denied, you then dump the ball to Tobi.


PNR with Maxey + Simmons isn’t good at all, I’d rather Harris + Simmons pnr or Shake going for leather with shooters at each wing.

You don’t really need a center vs the Hawks when sits or go the big with Howard + Harris (Curry/Milton/Green/ Hill/Korkmaz) and Shooters that are hot, either way ballhandlers and shooters one only one non shooting threat should be on the floor anymore then that the offense can get anemic.


Maybe. But Ive seen Maxey or Seth run PnR with Ben or Tobi and I think there’s some upside to that.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#170 » by Bum Adebayo » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:14 pm

The main thing people miss when discussing about Simmons is the "what if" factor. People always like to focus on the positives that he is bringing, and how it outweights the negatives. This may be true, but many of the negatives can be fixed, and this is what many miss here. We could have a dynasty with Simmons being even a better player than Embiid, but instead we have to be happy with him being "impactful enough", "still a positive when he is on the floor".
There is a reason Simmons was the 1st overall pick, and very hyped pre draft, it's because he is a generational talent. We need to demand much more out of him, we cannot be satisfied with the player he is right now.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#171 » by zaz102 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:57 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:The main thing people miss when discussing about Simmons is the "what if" factor. People always like to focus on the positives that he is bringing, and how it outweights the negatives. This may be true, but many of the negatives can be fixed, and this is what many miss here. We could have a dynasty with Simmons being even a better player than Embiid, but instead we have to be happy with him being "impactful enough", "still a positive when he is on the floor".
There is a reason Simmons was the 1st overall pick, and very hyped pre draft, it's because he is a generational talent. We need to demand much more out of him, we cannot be satisfied with the player he is right now.
Not sure about that. I think the what ifs have been done to death.

After watching a ton of videos, listening to Brett Brown/Embiid talk about having him inprove offensively and watching a few years of virtually no improvement, I think people are trying to be realistic (whether pro or anti or in the middle for Ben).

Also, to be clear I'm talking about the fan perspective. Coaching should be doing everything they can to make all the players the best they can be, but as a fan, all im trying to do is analyze what I seen.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#172 » by Ferry Avenue » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:22 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:The main thing people miss when discussing about Simmons is the "what if" factor. People always like to focus on the positives that he is bringing, and how it outweights the negatives. This may be true, but many of the negatives can be fixed, and this is what many miss here. We could have a dynasty with Simmons being even a better player than Embiid, but instead we have to be happy with him being "impactful enough", "still a positive when he is on the floor".
There is a reason Simmons was the 1st overall pick, and very hyped pre draft, it's because he is a generational talent. We need to demand much more out of him, we cannot be satisfied with the player he is right now.

Nobody should be having to demand anything out of him. Nobody has to demand anything from the great players in the league. They do work and improve on their own.

The fact that there is virtually no improvement in any aspect of Simmons's game through four years in the league is a glaring testament to the fact that he demands nothing of himself.

Now if he was paid like a role player, this wouldn't be an issue, but of course he isn't. He's paid like a player who should be one of the contributors needed to win a title, like one of the "big three" we've seen on other teams. If he's paid that way but isn't contributing in that way, then he's interfering with the team's ability to compete with such teams, and that all but eliminates them from title contention. There will be another team in the league with a "big three" just about every year, and if you can't contend with them with your own talent, you will lose to them.

So the fact that Ben Simmons hasn't improved at all in four years in the league has tremendous ramifications on this team's ability to win a championship. It all but eliminates it.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#173 » by Zumramania » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:27 pm

I think his attitude is wrong. You can see it when people ask him about his shooting and he replies that they don't know basketball. Giannis sees how much his non-shooting limits his team and you can see he tries really hard in that department, although I would say he is an even less talented shooter than Ben.

With Ben, it was all about PR. First all of these videos of him shooting in practice, which were I guess more of a PR stunt than anything else, just to prove that "he can actually shoot" and on the other side, he doesn't want to shoot in-game to protect his image of an efficient player. I'm talking about the regular season here, there was enough opportunity for him to practice in-game shooting and not hurt the team.

I think that he cares about his outward image too much, and some people close to him said he needs "external pressure" to improve, and these two things combined are not a good basis for working on things he's not good at. I think that this hack-a-Ben tactic in the playoffs is actually a good thing for him and that this kind of thing might motivate him to improve because from a perspective of outward image this is a bad thing that he has to correct. And I do think that he would benefit from some quality psychotherapy but for that, you have to be motivated and acknowledge that you have issues...
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#174 » by GoSixersBro » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:49 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:The main thing people miss when discussing about Simmons is the "what if" factor. People always like to focus on the positives that he is bringing, and how it outweights the negatives. This may be true, but many of the negatives can be fixed, and this is what many miss here. We could have a dynasty with Simmons being even a better player than Embiid, but instead we have to be happy with him being "impactful enough", "still a positive when he is on the floor".
There is a reason Simmons was the 1st overall pick, and very hyped pre draft, it's because he is a generational talent. We need to demand much more out of him, we cannot be satisfied with the player he is right now.


Calling him a generational talent in 2016 made sense. It does not make sense now.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#175 » by Bum Adebayo » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:27 pm

GoSixersBro wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:The main thing people miss when discussing about Simmons is the "what if" factor. People always like to focus on the positives that he is bringing, and how it outweights the negatives. This may be true, but many of the negatives can be fixed, and this is what many miss here. We could have a dynasty with Simmons being even a better player than Embiid, but instead we have to be happy with him being "impactful enough", "still a positive when he is on the floor".
There is a reason Simmons was the 1st overall pick, and very hyped pre draft, it's because he is a generational talent. We need to demand much more out of him, we cannot be satisfied with the player he is right now.


Calling him a generational talent in 2016 made sense. It does not make sense now.


This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Talent is always there, it is not something that comes and goes, it is composed of all the things that cannot be teached. If Simmons was a generational talent in 2016, he is still a generational talent now. If he is not a generational talent now, then he wasn't pre draft.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#176 » by GoSixersBro » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:02 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:
GoSixersBro wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:The main thing people miss when discussing about Simmons is the "what if" factor. People always like to focus on the positives that he is bringing, and how it outweights the negatives. This may be true, but many of the negatives can be fixed, and this is what many miss here. We could have a dynasty with Simmons being even a better player than Embiid, but instead we have to be happy with him being "impactful enough", "still a positive when he is on the floor".
There is a reason Simmons was the 1st overall pick, and very hyped pre draft, it's because he is a generational talent. We need to demand much more out of him, we cannot be satisfied with the player he is right now.


Calling him a generational talent in 2016 made sense. It does not make sense now.


This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Talent is always there, it is not something that comes and goes, it is composed of all the things that cannot be teached. If Simmons was a generational talent in 2016, he is still a generational talent now. If he is not a generational talent now, then he wasn't pre draft.


You do not understand the definition of the term. LeBron James is a generational talent. Steph Curry. Kobe. Shaq. Jordan. Bird. Magic. A combination of raw talent, ability, hardware/achievement, and impact felt and left on the game that only comes around every 10-20 years. The league changes when these guys either retire or father time catches up with them.

Predicting Simmons would be a generational talent before the draft is fine. However we have 4 seasons now of data. He is not, and most likely will not even sniff being mentioned with the names above.

Tons of guys have and had talent in the league. Simmons isn't even a top 15 player in this league currently and you think he's generational? You have to be at the top of the league for an extended period of time to be considered. Simmons is barely the second best player on his own team.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#177 » by Bum Adebayo » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:36 pm

Talent has nothing to do with your impact on the court or how you perform. What you are describing is generational player, not talent.
Talent is merely the things that cannot be taught. Physical tools, hand-eye coordination, vision, etc. Generational talent means that a player has a ridiculous amount of these things at a really high level, but this has nothing to do with how the player, with these tools, performs on the court.
Simmons has all the tools you would want in a player, but he just refuses to use some of them on a consistent basis due to his terrible attitude.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#178 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:01 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:Talent has nothing to do with your impact on the court or how you perform. What you are describing is generational player, not talent.
Talent is merely the things that cannot be taught. Physical tools, hand-eye coordination, vision, etc. Generational talent means that a player has a ridiculous amount of these things at a really high level, but this has nothing to do with how the player, with these tools, performs on the court.
Simmons has all the tools you would want in a player, but he just refuses to use some of them on a consistent basis due to his terrible attitude.


This is absolutely it right here. He's a diva if there ever was one and I think deep down, he doesn't like being here in Philly. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he leaves once his contract is up.
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#179 » by rzzzzz » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:05 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote: If Simmons was a generational talent in 2016, he is still a generational talent now. If he is not a generational talent now, then he wasn't pre draft.


Back when, everyone on the Sixers were convinced of Darryl Dawkins generational talent. Later on, Wilt was in the papers saying that Dawkins should be ashamed of wasting the staggering athletic gifts he was born with.

(I’d be inclined to play him more like a microwave. Keep him on the court when he’s producing, but bench him when he’s hesitant.)
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Re: The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part V 

Post#180 » by GoSixersBro » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:31 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:Talent has nothing to do with your impact on the court or how you perform. What you are describing is generational player, not talent.
Talent is merely the things that cannot be taught. Physical tools, hand-eye coordination, vision, etc. Generational talent means that a player has a ridiculous amount of these things at a really high level, but this has nothing to do with how the player, with these tools, performs on the court.
Simmons has all the tools you would want in a player, but he just refuses to use some of them on a consistent basis due to his terrible attitude.


What talent does he have that is generational? He's not the best defender nor passer of this generation. People gush over him because he's closer to a body of a center but possesses the skills of a point guard. Yet he is incredibly ineffective as a point guard in the Playoffs because he refuses to be a scoring threat, so our coach ends up unable to put Ben in a spot to show us all these great buzz words Simmons fans attach to him. You can read me his nbadraft.net strengths, but when it comes to potential, you need progression. What progression have we seen on the offensive end since 2018? None. Just a slight regression.

You can split hairs and mince words all you want, but there's nothing generational about Simmons. The potential was certainly there when we all watched his high school and college mixes 6 years ago, and even then people were extremely concerned about his lack of a jumper, which IDEGAF about at this point. I just want him to attack the rim more.

He's a very good player with a massive hole in his game. He's not bad, but he's not great.
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