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Fantasy Trade Thread

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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#21 » by Kobblehead » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:25 pm

Wilfried wrote:Would someone dare Porzingis <-> Tobias ?

I would, although not 100% sure of the fit with Joel

I wouldn't.

At this point, Tobias has developed quite nicely into a shotcreation PF. A pretty rare and valuable archetype.

Porzingis is just a big. Starting him and Embiid would be going back to the two centers thing. And his attitude is dogshh
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#22 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:12 pm

MoeGreene wrote:Ok, Ben is gone this off season, right? How about a youth movement?

Simmons

to Detroit for

2021 1st round pick - Jalen Green(SG) or Jalen Suggs(SG)
Saddiq Bey SF $2.6M \ 4yrs
Josh Jackson SG $4.7M \ 2yrs
Cory Joseph PG $12.6M \ 2yrs
Jerami Grant PF, $19.0M \ 3yrs



Hill Joseph Maxey

Green Curry Milton Joe

Bey Thybulle(resign) Jackson

Harris Grant Reed

Embiid Howard(resign)


I would do this. A chance to draft Jalen Suggs makes it all worth it. Suggs is going to be a terrific player.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#23 » by the_process » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:49 pm

MoeGreene wrote:
cool93 wrote:We need a star to pair with prime Embiid, not **** youth



I don't think you can get that star player. I like Bey and would roll the dice on a top 2 pick in the draft.


You might be right, but I would play it out into the summer and see if a star shakes free.

And if no star shakes free, but you could get Bey and Jalen Suggs... then you do it IMO.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#24 » by DCasey91 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:05 pm

I don’t think Harris’s archetype is all that valuable in fact it’s on the lower end of value for a starter.

PF’s are getting phased out for an extra wing. It’s more dynamic as if they are a big wing they can play the PF position no troubles.

A non plus defender that isn’t a great shooter and isn’t a great scorer just isn’t valuable in the end. If he got to the line 6+ times okay there’s some offset but Harris has never shown to be able to achieve that. Can’t channel an offense and not effective enough off ball.

Rui Hachimura is a prototype like that he just isn’t valuable today imo. John Collins is basically an afterthought right now, Gallo is older and he’s had playoff struggles but the dynamic is there. (Gun ho tall 3 ball shooter that’s dangerous when he’s on, it pairs better around heavy/stat ball-handlers creators. Big Bogi at the Jazz is another one.)
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#25 » by Kobblehead » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:16 pm

Tobias basically is an extra wing. He's a jumbo sized wing. And he scores off the dribble at an incredible rate. And he shoots really well, also. Not sure of your criticism.

I think your argument is better applied to guys like John Collins, Marvin Bagley and Evan Mobley.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#26 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:21 pm

Bey and a shot at Suggs alone is worth Ben Simmons in my opinion. Youth movement for sure, but a smart one.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#27 » by DCasey91 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:34 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Tobias basically is an extra wing. He's a jumbo sized wing. And he scores off the dribble at an incredible rate. And he shoots really well, also. Not sure of your criticism.

I think your argument is better applied to guys like John Collins, Marvin Bagley and Evan Mobley.



Wait what has he shot on his career on the 3ball and at what volume in the playoffs and what is his free throw rate? There’s the answer. He can get twenty but he can’t break a game open of its entirety.

Teams are looking for the Klay Thompson approach a player that can bomb 7 threes with zero setup it’s a GOAT lvl offset because it requires Zero setup time. Or are looking for heavy usage wing scoring types that can carry an offense. That’s for offense, defense again different story.

Watch Hunter/Huerter is just a more valuable in the end as a third option. Bomb threes, pass, defend man on man or perimeter. Simple but devastatingly effective imo because off the drag on the openings on defense. Already comprised with the two top threats, a Reggie Miller esque as a third just cuts teams up so quickly. Mitchell/Conley for the breakdown then bomb away and have Rudy for easy points.

Harris isn’t a positive perimeter defender that’s bad news bears nowadays.
The 3ball is super broken when there’s space and no team left currently is a defensive juggernaut that can choke the excess down.

It’s a super stack analytic pour on, Harris hasn’t shown me that it’s not in his game.

Big Bogi is getting 1.39 PPP returns on the his 3ball and at volume.

Harris does not score at an incredibly rate at anything. We do tend to overrate the players we have. Actually look at his game

Better yet look at our top 3’s overall offensive game they all have fatal flaws (Embiid soak clock 15+ secs contested/turnover 2’s,Harris low FT non threatening scorer/shooter too much setup not good enough as a shooting/creating threat, Ben zero threat in halfcourt).

CJ is 100% the better fit over Harris it allows Ben/Green/Thybulle as the perimeter defensive options basically all times.
Harris should be at 0% on the outside. Dude guarded Trae that’s asking for free points.

The Meta now is highly focused on % returns. Team of 5 that’s maxed out on complimentary skillsets. CJ legit has the second best skillset for us overall. At one being Damian Lillard.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#28 » by Negrodamus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:35 pm

DCasey91 wrote:I don’t think Harris’s archetype is all that valuable in fact it’s on the lower end of value for a starter.

PF’s are getting phased out for an extra wing. It’s more dynamic as if they are a big wing they can play the PF position no troubles.

A non plus defender that isn’t a great shooter and isn’t a great scorer just isn’t valuable in the end. If he got to the line 6+ times okay there’s some offset but Harris has never shown to be able to achieve that. Can’t channel an offense and not effective enough off ball.

Rui Hachimura is a prototype like that he just isn’t valuable today imo. John Collins is basically an afterthought right now, Gallo is older and he’s had playoff struggles but the dynamic is there. (Gun ho tall 3 ball shooter that’s dangerous when he’s on, it pairs better around heavy/stat ball-handlers creators. Big Bogi at the Jazz is another one.)


Tobias is a 23 ppg scorer in the playoffs as third option on offense. Joel is the main scoring option and Ben has been the distributor. Being able to score that many points under those circumstances is absolutely valuable.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#29 » by DCasey91 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:42 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:I don’t think Harris’s archetype is all that valuable in fact it’s on the lower end of value for a starter.

PF’s are getting phased out for an extra wing. It’s more dynamic as if they are a big wing they can play the PF position no troubles.

A non plus defender that isn’t a great shooter and isn’t a great scorer just isn’t valuable in the end. If he got to the line 6+ times okay there’s some offset but Harris has never shown to be able to achieve that. Can’t channel an offense and not effective enough off ball.

Rui Hachimura is a prototype like that he just isn’t valuable today imo. John Collins is basically an afterthought right now, Gallo is older and he’s had playoff struggles but the dynamic is there. (Gun ho tall 3 ball shooter that’s dangerous when he’s on, it pairs better around heavy/stat ball-handlers creators. Big Bogi at the Jazz is another one.)


Tobias is a 23 ppg scorer in the playoffs as third option on offense. Joel is the main scoring option and Ben has been the distributor. Being able to score that many points under those circumstances is absolutely valuable.


We versed the Wizards. Really context truly does matter here.

Look at his career playoff stats ffs it’s not good enough, just really look at his game.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#30 » by Negrodamus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:I don’t think Harris’s archetype is all that valuable in fact it’s on the lower end of value for a starter.

PF’s are getting phased out for an extra wing. It’s more dynamic as if they are a big wing they can play the PF position no troubles.

A non plus defender that isn’t a great shooter and isn’t a great scorer just isn’t valuable in the end. If he got to the line 6+ times okay there’s some offset but Harris has never shown to be able to achieve that. Can’t channel an offense and not effective enough off ball.

Rui Hachimura is a prototype like that he just isn’t valuable today imo. John Collins is basically an afterthought right now, Gallo is older and he’s had playoff struggles but the dynamic is there. (Gun ho tall 3 ball shooter that’s dangerous when he’s on, it pairs better around heavy/stat ball-handlers creators. Big Bogi at the Jazz is another one.)


Tobias is a 23 ppg scorer in the playoffs as third option on offense. Joel is the main scoring option and Ben has been the distributor. Being able to score that many points under those circumstances is absolutely valuable.


We versed the Wizards. Really context truly does matter here.

Look at his career playoff stats ffs it’s not good enough, just really look at his game.


Very interesting that you say context matters and then you point to career playoff stats.

And yes, it was against the Wizards. If it weren't for him, we would have gone 7 games with them, possibly lost to them.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#31 » by cool93 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:50 pm

So Embiid should just wait another couple of years for youth to develop?

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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#32 » by DCasey91 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:59 pm



This is all you need to see. And the reason why Ben or Harris needs to be moved in the off-season. It’s all there clears as day. I like Harris but he’s not good enough to be a second and not nuanced enough to be a third. Has one of the highest runout “cheap” points in the NBA, low FT, low 3ball when pressure is on. And is more of inside/out then outside/in.

1:40 lucky Collins is a bad defender and Hawks in general aren’t great. Celtics, Raptors would destroy that (Harris struggled). Guess what happened on the next highlight, same thing. It’s the Ben’s man sag off cheat tactic. We are so lucky vsing the Wizards and the Hawks. Heck Embiid hasn’t even been tested properly.

There’s one later on 3:40 . Embiid + Harris and shooters at the wings, leaves Embiid on a quick one on one (I don’t want Embiid anywhere near at the start of the clock in crunch time, has a tendency to soak most of it up for less then ideal shots, looks awesome when it hits but it doesn’t have to be the same thing all the time). Thing that gives me hope of Embiid’s awareness improvements is he was waiting for Gallos help, it’s the blindside double attacks that’s going to suck. Heck we have to do Center centric pick and pops and Embiid isn’t quite an elite 3ball operator let’s be honest here.

It’s CJ or Dame in the off-season 100%.

Just PNR Lillard/Embiid it’s unstoppable and a 3 and D 15ppg 3ball gun runner that’s it very simple.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#33 » by VDT » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:58 pm

Lol you are not getting a better player for Harris. Also CJ is not better.Lillard is also overrated and on a completely toxic contract. These two dudes have been getting eliminated by everyone, even mr beta Anthony Davis (his only playoff success pre Lebron) yet people are still overrating them.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#34 » by MoeGreene » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:33 pm

cool93 wrote:So Embiid should just wait another couple of years for youth to develop?

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Guys that can shoot are ready to roll in today's NBA. Bey can shoot, 404 FG % and 380 3pt %. He's ready and better than they have at the SF position.

Suggs is already a better option than what they have at SG. 503 FG % and .337 3pt % So, not much of a wait time.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#35 » by stormi » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:45 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:I don’t think Harris’s archetype is all that valuable in fact it’s on the lower end of value for a starter.

PF’s are getting phased out for an extra wing. It’s more dynamic as if they are a big wing they can play the PF position no troubles.

A non plus defender that isn’t a great shooter and isn’t a great scorer just isn’t valuable in the end. If he got to the line 6+ times okay there’s some offset but Harris has never shown to be able to achieve that. Can’t channel an offense and not effective enough off ball.

Rui Hachimura is a prototype like that he just isn’t valuable today imo. John Collins is basically an afterthought right now, Gallo is older and he’s had playoff struggles but the dynamic is there. (Gun ho tall 3 ball shooter that’s dangerous when he’s on, it pairs better around heavy/stat ball-handlers creators. Big Bogi at the Jazz is another one.)


Tobias is a 23 ppg scorer in the playoffs as third option on offense. Joel is the main scoring option and Ben has been the distributor. Being able to score that many points under those circumstances is absolutely valuable.


We versed the Wizards. Really context truly does matter here.

Look at his career playoff stats ffs it’s not good enough, just really look at his game.


Still not getting to the free throw line and no playmaking in his bag. We'd extremely fortunate though, and kudos to him if he continues hitting Kobe-esque post fade jumpers at high efficiency throughout our playoff run.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#36 » by Negrodamus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:18 pm

Look at Embiid's career playoff stats (23ppg), he's not an elite scorer at all! FFS we need a better #1 option than him! Context matters!
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#37 » by the_process » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:37 pm

I, for one, am excited Tobias continues to up his trade value for the rest of the naive league!

Deal him for an actually helpful player who doesn't occupy the same places as your best players, who doesn't dribble out of open threes into contested twos, who doesn't brick layups or have them smashed in his face on the regular, who gets to the foul line, who can throw a simple pass to the open man in the corner.

But go Harris! Keep stuffing that stat sheet!
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#38 » by LloydFree » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:45 pm

VDT wrote:Lol you are not getting a better player for Harris. Also CJ is not better.Lillard is also overrated and on a completely toxic contract. These two dudes have been getting eliminated by everyone, even mr beta Anthony Davis (his only playoff success pre Lebron) yet people are still overrating them.

"One round and out" Legends. But that's how you build a basketball team, evidently.
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Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#39 » by ProcessDoctor » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:50 pm

I'm convinced Ben is the one to go. In addition to the posts above emphasizing Tobias's skillset, I think his timeline lines up more with Embiid. He's in his prime right now. If Ben ever decides to tap into this hypothetical potential, it will be too late for Embiid IMO.

I'd send him out for a return of either Dame, CJ + Roco + picks, Beal, or DLO + Ant/picks.
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Re: Fantasy Trade Thread 

Post#40 » by DCasey91 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:33 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:I'm convinced Ben is the one to go. In addition to the posts above emphasizing Tobias's skillset, I think his timeline lines up more with Embiid. He's in his prime right now. If Ben ever decides to tap into this hypothetical potential, it will be too late for Embiid IMO.

I'd send him out for a return of either Dame, CJ + Roco + picks, Beal, or DLO + Ant/picks.


DLO is a 100% no. like he’s a Tobias Harris as a PG stay away. Anyway you can’t get DLO and Ant for Ben. (I’d doubt you get Ant for Ben tbh).

But throwing the house at Lillard and keeping Harris is fine by me.

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