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Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT

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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#541 » by GoSixersBro » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:12 pm

My take on Simmons last night is knowing he scored 4 points in 35 minutes is yeesh for who he's supposed to be for us, but like mentioned before in this thread, if he can just focus on hounding the opponent's best player for every second he's on the floor and making an impact there, then his offensive game I can forget about ... which is easier to say when Embiid, Harris, and Curry are cooking. If those 3 were struggling, Ben needs to be become aggressive and help out.

It looks like if we fight our way through to the conference finals, Ben's offensive limitations will be exposed more against a team like Brooklyn than Atlanta. One thing that bothered me last night (wish I could provide the video) was we had numbers on the fast break (4 v 3) and Ben caught the ball on the wing and passed it like a hot potato, not to set up a teammate, but because it looked like he just didn't want the ball in his hands. Moments like these, where we see him "half drive" the lane and do one of his patented 180 passes in the air back out is what disrupts the offense. There's no reason a guy of his stature should fear contact. Yeah, he can't knock down free throws, but even getting the opponents' fouls up is at least a bit of help as compared to making a risky pass.

Unrelated, but what's your guys' take on John Collins? I feel like Atlanta should sell quick. He put up some nice numbers in his second and third seasons, but once Capela came in they seemed to take a hit. He also seems like an athletic freak, but not a nice touch around the rim. I was getting excited last night every time he took a contested shot down low because I knew it was a brick. Maybe I'm wrong and he will be a great player, but I just think he's fool's gold.
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M. Brogdon | J. Wall | D. Garland | T. McConnell
D. Booker | Z. LaVine | J. Harris | T. Hardaway Jr.
L. James | J. Butler | D. Finney-Smith
G. Antetokounmpo | D. Green | A. Horford
W. Carter Jr. | S. Adams
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#542 » by Ferry Avenue » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:47 pm

DaBolden76 wrote:
Ferry Avenue wrote:
DaBolden76 wrote:The hate on Simmons is laughable. He did his job and shut down Trae. With this Sixers team he’s playing point forward, with Curry and Harris as the guards. Trading Simmons is dumb in my opinion, just put him in the 4 position where he belongs. I would probably look to trade Harris and Milton. Long term I think Maxey will be that 6th man who brings energy.

Wait till the team is playing the Nets/Jazz/Suns and you're getting the same contribution from Simmons and it's woefully insufficient to compete with those teams. It won't be laughable then.

Do you want to win a championship, or do you just want to win a game against a #4 seed?

Simmons did what he had to do tonight. He was the major part why Trae shot 13pts from the field at 36%. This game was all about shutting down Trae. If Sixers move on to the next round. Simmons will just do what he needs to do to help the Sixers win that series.

Against the Nets he could likewise shut down [insert player of your choice] and if he doesn't also score and be a threat offensively, the Sixers are toast.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#543 » by DaBolden76 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:55 pm

Ferry Avenue wrote:
DaBolden76 wrote:
Ferry Avenue wrote:Wait till the team is playing the Nets/Jazz/Suns and you're getting the same contribution from Simmons and it's woefully insufficient to compete with those teams. It won't be laughable then.

Do you want to win a championship, or do you just want to win a game against a #4 seed?

Simmons did what he had to do tonight. He was the major part why Trae shot 13pts from the field at 36%. This game was all about shutting down Trae. If Sixers move on to the next round. Simmons will just do what he needs to do to help the Sixers win that series.

Against the Nets he could likewise shut down [insert player of your choice] and if he doesn't also score and be a threat offensively, the Sixers are toast.

I think Nets will struggle defensively against the Sixers , however, the question can they stop them scoring. I think Harden will be bust for them this playoffs due to injury.

He needs to attack on the fast break. I also noticed he could have scored on easy dunks but never received that pass.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#544 » by Mik317 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:05 pm

With Ben the reality is somewhere in the middle.

He played great defense and it helped a lot

He also needs to have more than 4 points and what goes unnoticed 3 rebounds.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#545 » by phillynative » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:17 pm

Mik317 wrote:With Ben the reality is somewhere in the middle.

He played great defense and it helped a lot

He also needs to have more than 4 points and what goes unnoticed 3 rebounds.


This exactly. He obviously put a stamp on the game with his defense. He could of slashed and rolled to the basket more to get more baskets at the rim. 4pts is just not enough for any star players especially when our peremiter guys are all hot and cold.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#546 » by phillynative » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:21 pm

Ben Simmons helped the sixers win this game with his defense. Ben Simmons could and should of scored more than 4pts.

They are both facts.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#547 » by LloydFree » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:33 pm

Doc learned something he should have known before the playoffs even started. Play Maxey and Korkmaz Regular Season minutes in a playoff game, and you will lose against anybody that's any good. Decrease Maxey and Korkmaz minutes and increase Thybulle and George Hill minutes in the playoffs, and win a game.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#548 » by phillynative » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:49 pm

LloydFree wrote:Doc learned something he should have known before the playoffs even started. Play Maxey and Korkmaz Regular Season minutes in a playoff game, and you will lose against anybody that's any good. Decrease Maxey and Korkmaz minutes and increase Thybulle and George Hill minutes in the playoffs, and win a game.


Maybe but george hill hasnt really given us anything either.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#549 » by Embiid-MVP » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:41 pm

phillynative wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Doc learned something he should have known before the playoffs even started. Play Maxey and Korkmaz Regular Season minutes in a playoff game, and you will lose against anybody that's any good. Decrease Maxey and Korkmaz minutes and increase Thybulle and George Hill minutes in the playoffs, and win a game.


Maybe but george hill hasnt really given us anything either.


He's played solid defense and in a good way slows things down on offense when we need to regather ourselves. Last night he had 4 points, 1 rebound , 2 assist and 1 block & 0 Turnovers and was +6. He did his job
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#550 » by zaz102 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 3:55 pm

Embiid-MVP wrote:
phillynative wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Doc learned something he should have known before the playoffs even started. Play Maxey and Korkmaz Regular Season minutes in a playoff game, and you will lose against anybody that's any good. Decrease Maxey and Korkmaz minutes and increase Thybulle and George Hill minutes in the playoffs, and win a game.


Maybe but george hill hasnt really given us anything either.


He's played solid defense and in a good way slows things down on offense when we need to regather ourselves. Last night he had 4 points, 1 rebound , 2 assist and 1 block & 0 Turnovers and was +6. He did his job
I think it's more about flexibility. After our top three, there's a big drop off with each player having unique skills that can be hot/cold. I think this is why we are seeing these deep lineups.

If someone is consistently stronger than the rest, then give them more minutes, otherwise play/find the hot hand.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#551 » by Da Doctor » Wed Jun 9, 2021 4:58 pm

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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#552 » by Sixerscan » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:00 pm

Mik317 wrote:With Ben the reality is somewhere in the middle.

He played great defense and it helped a lot

He also needs to have more than 4 points and what goes unnoticed 3 rebounds.


He should score as many points as they need to win the game.

Three other guys in the starting lineup combined for 84 points on 65 TS%. They had a 125 offensive rating.

I guess he could have put his head down and try to score at the expense of those guys' shots but I'm not what purpose that really serves other than satisfying the people that expect him to score x amount of points.

The rebounds had a lot to do with him staying on Trae 30 feet from the basket, I guess he could have left his man to hunt rebounds Westbrook-style but I don't think we would have been happy with the results there.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#553 » by youngcrev » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:04 pm

LloydFree wrote:Doc learned something he should have known before the playoffs even started. Play Maxey and Korkmaz Regular Season minutes in a playoff game, and you will lose against anybody that's any good. Decrease Maxey and Korkmaz minutes and increase Thybulle and George Hill minutes in the playoffs, and win a game.


I think he's just got to pull the right levers at the right moments. If Maxey is out there and being used as an off ball guy, we **** up. If Korkmaz is out there and being asked to create, we **** up. If Thybulle is out there with Ben and Dwight, we **** up.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#554 » by youngcrev » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:49 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
Mik317 wrote:With Ben the reality is somewhere in the middle.

He played great defense and it helped a lot

He also needs to have more than 4 points and what goes unnoticed 3 rebounds.


He should score as many points as they need to win the game.

Three other guys in the starting lineup combined for 84 points on 65 TS%. They had a 125 offensive rating.

I guess he could have put his head down and try to score at the expense of those guys' shots but I'm not what purpose that really serves other than satisfying the people that expect him to score x amount of points.

The rebounds had a lot to do with him staying on Trae 30 feet from the basket, I guess he could have left his man to hunt rebounds Westbrook-style but I don't think we would have been happy with the results there.


Yup.

He pretty clearly was able to leave his imprint on the game in spite of the lack of counting stats. The game plan in the half court seems fairly obvious: let Embiid and Harris attack their respective mismatch, and it was a very effective strategy for them. It's a gameplay that's not going to lead to Ben being that productive offensively since both of those guys like to work in the paint and neither is a great passer, so his window to impact the game is on the defensive end and in transition. Whether it's problematic in general that your 2nd best player isn't an effective half court offensive player is a fair thing to question, but on the flip side, having a guy that can effect the game as much as he did while taking 3 shots isn't exactly hurting the team.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#555 » by phillynative » Wed Jun 9, 2021 5:55 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
Mik317 wrote:With Ben the reality is somewhere in the middle.

He played great defense and it helped a lot

He also needs to have more than 4 points and what goes unnoticed 3 rebounds.


He should score as many points as they need to win the game.

Three other guys in the starting lineup combined for 84 points on 65 TS%. They had a 125 offensive rating.

I guess he could have put his head down and try to score at the expense of those guys' shots but I'm not what purpose that really serves other than satisfying the people that expect him to score x amount of points.

The rebounds had a lot to do with him staying on Trae 30 feet from the basket, I guess he could have left his man to hunt rebounds Westbrook-style but I don't think we would have been happy with the results there.


Its not about forcing shots its about taking the shots that he's given. We didnt need him to score 20 this game obviously but completely ignoring the offensive end doesnt help anyone. Sorry not sorry if the truth offends certain fans.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#556 » by GoSixersBro » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:00 pm

Mik317 wrote:With Ben the reality is somewhere in the middle.

He played great defense and it helped a lot

He also needs to have more than 4 points and what goes unnoticed 3 rebounds.


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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#557 » by GoSixersBro » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:02 pm

youngcrev wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Doc learned something he should have known before the playoffs even started. Play Maxey and Korkmaz Regular Season minutes in a playoff game, and you will lose against anybody that's any good. Decrease Maxey and Korkmaz minutes and increase Thybulle and George Hill minutes in the playoffs, and win a game.


I think he's just got to pull the right levers at the right moments. If Maxey is out there and being used as an off ball guy, we **** up. If Korkmaz is out there and being asked to create, we **** up. If Thybulle is out there with Ben and Dwight, we **** up.


Agree 100%. In the Playoffs Korkmaz should really be only out there for catch and shoot and the occasional backdoor cut. Seeing him put the ball on the floor was woeful to see.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#558 » by Sixerscan » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:11 pm

phillynative wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:
Mik317 wrote:With Ben the reality is somewhere in the middle.

He played great defense and it helped a lot

He also needs to have more than 4 points and what goes unnoticed 3 rebounds.


He should score as many points as they need to win the game.

Three other guys in the starting lineup combined for 84 points on 65 TS%. They had a 125 offensive rating.

I guess he could have put his head down and try to score at the expense of those guys' shots but I'm not what purpose that really serves other than satisfying the people that expect him to score x amount of points.

The rebounds had a lot to do with him staying on Trae 30 feet from the basket, I guess he could have left his man to hunt rebounds Westbrook-style but I don't think we would have been happy with the results there.


Its not about forcing shots its about taking the shots that he's given. We didnt need him to score 20 this game obviously but completely ignoring the offensive end doesnt help anyone. Sorry not sorry if the truth offends certain fans.


He's not ignoring the offensive end he was letting other guys take advantage of better matchups. If he's in a lineup and it's scoring loads of points I'm not sure why it matters who is scoring.

Sometimes it's as simple as giving the ball to Embiid every time and letting him go to work. He shouldn't break that up just to satisfy people who expect him to score X amount of points.

Sometimes he needs to be more aggressive, but acting like that was the case last night is a pretty clear example of judging a guy based on a box score.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#559 » by Mik317 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:22 pm

yes but also no?

There were a few moments last night in which Ben wasn't even looking at the rim despite having an advantage. Especially as Biid began to settle for step backs.

I'm not saying he needs to force it at every chance but he floats around watching a lot and then when he does have the ball its to pass and its obvious.

He doesn't have to be out there seeking shots but he's not even taking the easy ones and it hurts the team. Yeah others scored well (again Curry owes a lot to Ben in that regard) but when the offense gets ****; having Ben use that time to attack if only to give the defense another look beyond various degrees of post ups and ball watching would be nice...especially when slow footed guys like Gallo are on him.

again its somewhere in between. Ben helped majorly defensively last night...had some key steal and deflections that go unnoticed...however the offense was simply being held afloat by Embiid and took off when Ben sat. I think Shake still sucks but the mere idea of someone taking and making jumpers off the bounce seemed to shake the Hawks to death. Thats not Ben but there is no reason he can pick his spots and attack the rim. As is he often is just in the way or not doing anything at all on the offensive end and that offensive rating seems to be inspite of Ben rather because of him. This wasn't a game 1 v Wizards Ben game....i think he was just not great offensively last night.
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Re: Playoffs: Second Round Game 2 : (5) Atlanta Hawks @ (1) Philadelphia 76ers l Tuesday 6/8 l 7:30pm l TNT 

Post#560 » by Sixerscan » Wed Jun 9, 2021 6:31 pm

Mik317 wrote:yes but also no?

There were a few moments last night in which Ben wasn't even looking at the rim despite having an advantage. Especially as Biid began to settle for step backs.

I'm not saying he needs to force it at every chance but he floats around watching a lot and then when he does have the ball its to pass and its obvious.

He doesn't have to be out there seeking shots but he's not even taking the easy ones and it hurts the team. Yeah others scored well (again Curry owes a lot to Ben in that regard) but when the offense gets ****; having Ben use that time to attack if only to give the defense another look beyond various degrees of post ups and ball watching would be nice...especially when slow footed guys like Gallo are on him.

again its somewhere in between. Ben helped majorly defensively last night...had some key steal and deflections that go unnoticed...however the offense was simply being held afloat by Embiid and took off when Ben sat. I think Shake still sucks but the mere idea of someone taking and making jumpers off the bounce seemed to shake the Hawks to death. Thats not Ben but there is no reason he can pick his spots and attack the rim. As is he often is just in the way or not doing anything at all on the offensive end and that offensive rating seems to be inspite of Ben rather because of him. This wasn't a game 1 v Wizards Ben game....i think he was just not great offensively last night.

I mean there are individual possessions where you can say the other players also could have done x, y or z better. The end result was a 125 offensive rating I'm not sure how you can look at that and say there was something completely wrong with the point guards' approach.

Sometimes he doesn't look at the rim and it results in a bad fadeaway, sometimes he's waits and a guy gets open for a wide open 3. To just look at the possessions it doesn't work out and say "Ah he should have drove to the basket there" and ignore all the points they are generating in total seems pretty unfair.

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