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Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers

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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#81 » by SixersRay » Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:52 pm

He needs to land a Lillard/ Beal this off season to get us to the next level.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#82 » by shlo » Thu Jul 1, 2021 12:26 am

Negrodamus wrote:Remember when Colangelo signed Jerryd Bayless to a 3yr/27mil contract?

Gerald Henderson for 2yr/18mil.

Amir Johnson 1yr/11mil

If I didn't do a minor dive into his moves, I would have forgotten these guys were on our team at one point, much less taking up not insignificant contracts.



OMG! Those moves. The Bayless signing... Ugh. I hate the Colangelos. HATE. HATE. HATE. No plan there at all. Just throw some money at random free agents.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#83 » by ankle420breaker » Thu Jul 1, 2021 2:13 am

Yeah, I'm definitely Team Daryl.

Remember when sir long collars drafted Pacsenkis and traded Jerami Grant for Ilyasova?





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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#84 » by TYO23 » Thu Jul 1, 2021 4:08 am

He needs to get Joel a real running mate. Tobias and 25 are not what 21 needs to make a finals run. You can have one or the other but not both.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#85 » by Phila Tough » Thu Jul 1, 2021 4:13 am

TYO23 wrote:He needs to get Joel a real running mate. Tobias and 25 are not what 21 needs to make a finals run. You can have one or the other but not both.


I feel confident that he will.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#86 » by kio80 » Thu Jul 1, 2021 9:38 am

ankle420breaker wrote:Yeah, I'm definitely Team Daryl.

Remember when sir long collars drafted Pacsenkis and traded Jerami Grant for Ilyasova?





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Comparing Morey to Colangelo is setting such a low bar, it's like calling dirt from your shoe delicious cause it taste better than a dog **** sandwich
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#87 » by TTP » Thu Jul 1, 2021 10:42 am

ankle420breaker wrote:Yeah, I'm definitely Team Daryl.

Remember when sir long collars drafted Pacsenkis and traded Jerami Grant for Ilyasova?





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Remember when he traded Nerlens and tried to trick the fanbase into thinking he got a 1st round pick?

Remember when he traded a 2nd round pick just to dump Okafor for Trevor Booker after keeping Okafor on the roster for 1.5 years too long?

This one really needs to be re-stated - on a rebuilding team coming off a 28 win season, he wasted two roster spots on Okafor and Stauskas just so he could spend a 2nd round pick to get rid of them for a 30 year old non-shooting big that fits terribly next to Embiid (and TJ McConnell, who was in pretty much every one of the highest minute Booker units). We already had Amir and Richaun as backup bigs on that roster, plus Saric/Simmons/Covington all could get minutes at the 4, so it's not like the trade even solved some kind of need - if anything, it contributed to the log-jam of bigs. Every time we used Booker, it was in some clunky, terribly spaced unit. He waived Booker a few months later too.

This was after the 2017 draft, where he took Pasecniks and traded two other 2nd rounders for cash because he didn't have the roster space for players.

It made even less sense to target Booker considering we had Richaun at the time, who he would eventually trade for cash in summer 2018 - another ridiculous blunder by Colangelo's minions considering Richaun was generally productive when he wasn’t inexplicably buried. If we have Richaun backing up Embiid instead of Greg Monroe, we probably win the Raptors series.

Great all around use of resources there. If he uses those roster spots and picks more wisely, maybe we come out of it with another role player that would have been useful in any of our subsequent playoff runs, but especially 2018-19, where we were giving minutes in the Raptors series to the likes of Greg Monroe, Jonathon Simmons, Jonah Bolden, and Furkan (before he improved substantially), most of whom were borderline NBA players at the time.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#88 » by TTP » Thu Jul 1, 2021 11:14 am

It seems that the majority of the thread rightfully disagrees with OP.

As demoralizing as it was to lose in 7 to the Hawks, I don't think it's very debatable that we exceeded the expectations that many of us had prior to Morey's arrival. If you had asked me in October when Brand was still running things what my expectations were for the 2020-21 season, I'm not sure I would have had us as a top 4 seed in the conference, certainly nowhere near #1. I certainly wouldn't have projected us to make the Conference Finals, so it seems unreasonable to criticize Morey for not getting us there.

As painful as these playoffs were, I still have far more hope for our future than I did before Morey was hired. I think he did a good job with the trades and picks he made, and I think his reasons for passing on the moves he didn't make were very justifiable.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#89 » by rzzzzz » Thu Jul 1, 2021 11:31 am

Daryl brought in Seth and Danny, who at the very least were good steps towards building around Embiid. Seth provided much needed perimeter offense, and I wonder if we still would have blown those two big leads to Atlanta if Danny was around to provide his usual steady D, and maybe make a few timely buckets, as was his wont in playoffs the prior couple of years.

Doc’s wont makes it hard to grade how good this year’s draft picks were, though they look a hell of a lot more promising than the average crop we’ve had of late. Here’s hoping they see a lot more floor time next season to more accurately judge them.

Daryl’s big whiff was on the veteran point guard we all clamored for. I got to admit I had some expectation on how much George Hill would improve us in the playoffs. I mean he seemed to be a stable influence to some degree, but his performance was nothing like his reputation. Injury I guess and maybe age.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#90 » by HardenToSixers » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:16 pm

76ciology wrote:
HardenToSixers wrote:
76ciology wrote:
I’d stay open minded and dont play favorites.

For me, i dont care who the GM is as long as he knows basketball, he knows what he is doing and gets the job done.

Agreed. And BC really got the job done.


If you’re being sarcastic. BC is not my favorite GM. And personally, I hate cancel culture. You can’t just cancel him out just because he replaced Hinkie, who’s also made a lot of mistakes when he was here.

I just feel that he should get credit for what he has done. I mean, Morey pretty much just re-do what he did recreating the same structure of team BC did.

But I hate BC for drafting Ben, instead of Ingram, who has proven to be the better player.

I understand the rationale in drafting Fultz, and we’re until now finding a player like fultz. The perimeter playmaker who can run PnR.

We jumped from a lottery team into a playoff team with BC’s roster. And i think 3 years has passed, we have seen that Ben and Biid aren’t that good so it’s not like we can just surround them with random players and be able to win a series. Beli, Jj and Ersan all played a big part in the playoffs. Hell, if we need a basket down the stretch, the guy we go to was JJ or Beli.

BC knows the game. He knows Brett couldnt coach. He already placed MDA to replace him. He built the right way with the Suns, Raps and the 2017-2018 Sixers. But he F’d up when he drafted Ben. All his career he has the foresight to see where the trend of basketball is going and yet he drafted a guard who can’t shoot.

I’d like to add that, I think EB is the best GM we had since 2014. He brought the 2nd and the 3rd best Sixers after Embiid, in Butler and Tobias. Traded just role players and future role players to get those two. Morey was right when he said something like EB is a good and promising GM.

Sure he overpaid Al, but nobody wants to play for our team unless they’re overpaid. While we have to use our capspace either with it going to get used by extending our guys. I personally dont really care about cap space, it’s josh harris’ problem. Cap space for what? To sign Anthony Tolliver and Gary Clark?

But Brand built the best Sixers team in this process era during the 2018-2019 season. And we were the favorites to make it to the finals after we acquired Al by almost all media outlets and even analytics like 538. If we had Seth instead of Josh Rich last season while Biid found his jumper and Ben was healthy, we probably could easily made it past the first round. Maybe even made it to the finals and live up to what many project us to be.

8 years has passed. Look around the league.

You think using lottery pick to draft centers after centers with never even using a single one of those lottery picks for a perimeter playmaker didnt brought us here? He didnt foresee centers are turning into liabilities than assets when GMs were passing up centers while we were the suckers who keeps buying them because of BPA?

We would have been in the abyss if Hinkie was able to trade up for Wiggins like what he planned to do back then.

BC was an embarrassment of a human inside and outside of the GM office. He had plenty of mistakes (considering I don't think he actually executed more than 3 net positive moves), and taking Ben Simmons overall was not one of them. Nobody is "cancelling" him because he came after Hinkie and it has nothing to do with cancel culture so I'm not sure what you're talking about, unless people want to cancel him over the embarrassment of the Twitter fiasco which would certainly be fair.

I disagree with so many of your GM takes overall that it's not really possible to get started on arguing about it.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#91 » by HardenToSixers » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:20 pm

Imagine thinking that BC created the 2017 team because he overpaid for JJ Redick rather than realizing who acquired legitimately every single other driving force of that team and the cap space to sign Redick (plus the plethora of assets and extra cap space we could have used to improve the team further until the genius boys BC and Elton lit it all on fire)
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#92 » by 76ciology » Sun Jul 4, 2021 8:07 am

I’d rather have a GM who wastes assets but knows basketball by adding the winning players that leads to a winning team than a GM who can get me assets but does not know basketball and ends up just wasting these assets when they’re asked to turn these paper assets into actual talent.

Why? Because you dont really need much paper assets to get you talent if you know basketball like Morey or Presti.

We had like 6 lottery picks in our first 3 years (correct me if im wrong, i dont mind). We drafted 5 bigs (4 career back-ups) and one guard who can’t shoot. Even if we ended up with Embiid (which we lucked into), those were horrible draft selections because of how the game is trending. Every year the suckers wastes their lottery picks on bigs, we’re that sucker from 2013 to 2015. And even in 2016, when BC was dumb enough to draft Ben.

A GMs job is not just to get you assets.

A GM’s ULTIMATE job is to build you a winning team, and you dont need a lot assets to build you a winning team if you know basketball. And if you know basketball, you wouldnt be wasting lottery picks on role playing bigs or guards who can’t shoot. Even if the intent was to turn them into trade chips because these assets are losing it’s value as trade chips with how the game is going. Look at the eventual values of Noel, Okafor, MCW and Saric.

You guys are crying over Jerami Grant and Christian Wood. Who of you have seen both guys becoming the player they are right now? And quite frankly, these guys are nothing but role playing bigs that you can get easily nowadays. Look how cheap we got Paul Reed last year. Nobody is trading their star guards for these guys.

Cap space? Look at how LeBron just used our capspace (another example of us being a sucker) as an leverage to get to LA. For a team like ours cap space is nothing but to extend our guys, overpay for role players and second tier stars. The top tier FAs are only looking to sign for top destination teams like MIA or LA.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#93 » by 76ciology » Sun Jul 4, 2021 8:18 am

Assets itself is useless.

Where were you guys when I was harping on trading Ben on his first few seasons on the team and his value was high back then while you guys were saying he’s a good fit with Biid.

I say, “Ben clogs the paint for Embiid”
You say, “but we have a top 5 ORTG”

It’s useless if you dont know basketball. Because you’ll just keep trying to maximize the best talent in return but to be a winning team best talent is not enough but you need the BEST RIGHT TALENT.

Best example of this was Zhaire for Mikal trade. How the hell could you see Zhaire as a “star hunting” guard when all guards have atleast guard skills and most can shoot?

Ben was better than Donovan Mitchell right? Pretty sure you wouldnt trade Ben for Donovan Mitchell back then.

The goal was to find an MVP player in the draft right?

We were beaten 3 times in 2018 playoffs, 2020 playoffs and 2021 playoffs with teams with us having the best player and the opposing team without an MVP player. Why? Because they’re not playing 90s to early 2000 basketball.

Dont get me wrong. IM NOT TOTALLY BLAMING HINKIE, BUT ALSO THE OTHER GUYS LIKE BC AND BRAND.

Its not to point fingers but we need to acknowledge the trend, acknowledge our mistakes and correct our path going forward.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#94 » by Tomjas » Sun Jul 4, 2021 8:46 am

76ciology wrote:Assets itself is useless.

Where were you guys when I was harping on trading Ben on his first few seasons on the team and his value was high back then while you guys were saying he’s a good fit with Biid.

I say, “Ben clogs the paint for Embiid”
You say, “but we have a top 5 ORTG”

It’s useless if you dont know basketball. Because you’ll just keep trying to maximize the best talent in return but to be a winning team best talent is not enough but you need the BEST RIGHT TALENT.

Best example of this was Zhaire for Mikal trade. How the hell could you see Zhaire as a “star hunting” guard when all guards have atleast guard skills and most can shoot?

Ben was better than Donovan Mitchell right? Pretty sure you wouldnt trade Ben for Donovan Mitchell back then.

The goal was to find an MVP player in the draft right?

We were beaten 3 times in 2018 playoffs, 2020 playoffs and 2021 playoffs with teams with us having the best player and the opposing team without an MVP player. Why? Because they’re not playing 90s to early 2000 basketball.

Dont get me wrong. IM NOT TOTALLY BLAMING HINKIE, BUT ALSO THE OTHER GUYS LIKE BC AND BRAND.

Its not to point fingers but we need to acknowledge the trend, acknowledge our mistakes and correct our path going forward.


The Jazz played ultimate 2000s basketball this season by spamming 3s with little defence apart from Gobert

It worked great until they started missing

The Suns & Bucks just play solid basketball & that’s why they’re in the finals
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#95 » by 76ciology » Sun Jul 4, 2021 8:52 am

Tomjas wrote:
76ciology wrote:Assets itself is useless.

Where were you guys when I was harping on trading Ben on his first few seasons on the team and his value was high back then while you guys were saying he’s a good fit with Biid.

I say, “Ben clogs the paint for Embiid”
You say, “but we have a top 5 ORTG”

It’s useless if you dont know basketball. Because you’ll just keep trying to maximize the best talent in return but to be a winning team best talent is not enough but you need the BEST RIGHT TALENT.

Best example of this was Zhaire for Mikal trade. How the hell could you see Zhaire as a “star hunting” guard when all guards have atleast guard skills and most can shoot?

Ben was better than Donovan Mitchell right? Pretty sure you wouldnt trade Ben for Donovan Mitchell back then.

The goal was to find an MVP player in the draft right?

We were beaten 3 times in 2018 playoffs, 2020 playoffs and 2021 playoffs with teams with us having the best player and the opposing team without an MVP player. Why? Because they’re not playing 90s to early 2000 basketball.

Dont get me wrong. IM NOT TOTALLY BLAMING HINKIE, BUT ALSO THE OTHER GUYS LIKE BC AND BRAND.

Its not to point fingers but we need to acknowledge the trend, acknowledge our mistakes and correct our path going forward.


The Jazz played ultimate 2000s basketball this season by spamming 3s with little defence apart from Gobert

It worked great until they started missing

The Suns & Bucks just play solid basketball & that’s why they’re in the finals


Modern offense is not just spamming 3s. It’s running the offense with PnR by a really good point guard.

All those three teams have that. Look the leaps Suns made with CP3 running the offense or how competent Bucks offense suddenly looked with Jrue running the offense.

The problem with the Jazz is Gobert. Think about it.. if Jazz would sacrifice talent and trade Gobert for Mikal Bridges and Jae Crowder, they’d go further in the playoffs.

The problem with the jazz is they can’t play modern defense. They still play 90s defense with the center playing a goalie at the paint while, like you said, opponents spam 3s
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#96 » by Tomjas » Sun Jul 4, 2021 9:13 am

76ciology wrote:
Tomjas wrote:
76ciology wrote:Assets itself is useless.

Where were you guys when I was harping on trading Ben on his first few seasons on the team and his value was high back then while you guys were saying he’s a good fit with Biid.

I say, “Ben clogs the paint for Embiid”
You say, “but we have a top 5 ORTG”

It’s useless if you dont know basketball. Because you’ll just keep trying to maximize the best talent in return but to be a winning team best talent is not enough but you need the BEST RIGHT TALENT.

Best example of this was Zhaire for Mikal trade. How the hell could you see Zhaire as a “star hunting” guard when all guards have atleast guard skills and most can shoot?

Ben was better than Donovan Mitchell right? Pretty sure you wouldnt trade Ben for Donovan Mitchell back then.

The goal was to find an MVP player in the draft right?

We were beaten 3 times in 2018 playoffs, 2020 playoffs and 2021 playoffs with teams with us having the best player and the opposing team without an MVP player. Why? Because they’re not playing 90s to early 2000 basketball.

Dont get me wrong. IM NOT TOTALLY BLAMING HINKIE, BUT ALSO THE OTHER GUYS LIKE BC AND BRAND.

Its not to point fingers but we need to acknowledge the trend, acknowledge our mistakes and correct our path going forward.


The Jazz played ultimate 2000s basketball this season by spamming 3s with little defence apart from Gobert

It worked great until they started missing

The Suns & Bucks just play solid basketball & that’s why they’re in the finals


Modern offense is not just spamming 3s. It’s running the offense with PnR by a really good point guard.

All those three teams have that. Look the leaps Suns made with CP3 running the offense or how competent Bucks offense suddenly looked with Jrue running the offense.

The problem with the Jazz is Gobert. Think about it.. if Jazz would sacrifice talent and trade Gobert for Mikal Bridges and Jae Crowder, they’d go further in the playoffs.

The problem with the jazz is they can’t play modern defense. They still play 90s defense with the center playing a goalie at the paint while, like you said, opponents spam 3s


I am not an huge fan of Gobert but he was sold down the river by his teammates during the playoffs

Very flawed lineup

It’s going to be the same thing with Joel if Simmons goes unless they reinforce the perimeter
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#97 » by 76ciology » Sun Jul 4, 2021 10:03 am

Tomjas wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Tomjas wrote:
The Jazz played ultimate 2000s basketball this season by spamming 3s with little defence apart from Gobert

It worked great until they started missing

The Suns & Bucks just play solid basketball & that’s why they’re in the finals


Modern offense is not just spamming 3s. It’s running the offense with PnR by a really good point guard.

All those three teams have that. Look the leaps Suns made with CP3 running the offense or how competent Bucks offense suddenly looked with Jrue running the offense.

The problem with the Jazz is Gobert. Think about it.. if Jazz would sacrifice talent and trade Gobert for Mikal Bridges and Jae Crowder, they’d go further in the playoffs.

The problem with the jazz is they can’t play modern defense. They still play 90s defense with the center playing a goalie at the paint while, like you said, opponents spam 3s


I am not an huge fan of Gobert but he was sold down the river by his teammates during the playoffs

Very flawed lineup

It’s going to be the same thing with Joel if Simmons goes unless they reinforce the perimeter


True.

There’s really no way to play Gobert except you upgrade Mitchell, this way you try to beat the other team by being a ridiculously potent offensive team. Like how Nets can sacrifice defense for offense. But if you look at the Nets, they were even able to switch it up by playing Brown and Blake at the C position. So if you ask me, the only way for the Jazz to solve this is to trade Gobert even if it means getting lesser value players in return. I dont mind getting Hayward back for Gobert.

With Jojo, the key is he should step out and switch like Giannis on defense. Which he can if he’s healthy and have the stamina like when he played defense against the Raps by sticking with Siakam. Brolo is even doing it! And the only way he can be healthy and have the stamina is if can take less load on offense.

Dont get me wrong. I think you can still win the championship with Embiid. But you have to structure your roster and roles into the right direction.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#98 » by TTP » Sun Jul 4, 2021 11:37 am

76ciology, the Poster of Action.
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#99 » by TTP » Sun Jul 4, 2021 11:41 am

76ciology wrote:I’d rather have a GM who wastes assets but knows basketball by adding the winning players that leads to a winning team than a GM who can get me assets but does not know basketball and ends up just wasting these assets when they’re asked to turn these paper assets into actual talent.


So you're saying you prefer Brand over Colangelo?
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Re: Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers 

Post#100 » by 76ciology » Sun Jul 4, 2021 12:18 pm

TTP wrote:
76ciology wrote:I’d rather have a GM who wastes assets but knows basketball by adding the winning players that leads to a winning team than a GM who can get me assets but does not know basketball and ends up just wasting these assets when they’re asked to turn these paper assets into actual talent.


So you're saying you prefer Brand over Colangelo?


Yes. Brand built a championship caliber squad for two seasons with this very flawed franchise duos. One of which is only in paper.

He also brought in the second, third and fifth best players in the process era namely Jimmy, Tobi and Al.

Al is overpaid, im not denying that and ideally he should have signed someone cheaper. But he is essential if you want to max out Ben as a player or as an asset, and numbers of our line-ups without Biid would show it worked.

But Brand’s biggest mistake was not re-signing JJ or finding a replacement for JJ.

Brand overestimated Josh Richardson. Then by the mid season when it’s not looking good, he did a good job getting us Burks and GRob.

Im not a big fan of BC. I just think we should be giving him credit for the good that he has done like signing Jj. JJ is a “breakthrough” of the Ben and Biid duo. The reason that duo works is because of the JJ archetype which Morey replicates with Seth. He may not be an allstar but his impact is certainly an allstar. He was the guy who’s leading in scoring on most nights behind Embiid. He was the guy we go to when we need scoring in the playoffs for a couple of playoff seasons.

BC also deserves criticisms for his mistakes. Such as the things you have mentioned and you are right with those things. And for me, this includes drafting Ben. But he was right with drafting Fultz, its just that what happened to Fultz was a black swan. For the record, if i can turn back the hand of time, I’ll draft Fultz over Tatum again. It was the right choice, and we’re seeing how a guy like Fultz is essential in playing winning basketball this playoffs.

Im not saying Brand is perfect or Hinkie is horrible. I just think all have their own positive and negative contributions that has lead us to where we are now. Nobody is blameless.

Im looking at the past to help me navigate the future, I’m not finding anyone to blame.

The right talent is as important or even more important than the value of talent.
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