What’s the solution? Unpair Ben and Jo? Or add a PG?

Chocolate or Thunder? · Post #1 » by **Chocolate or Thunder?** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:39 pm

Is the answers splitting these two up? Or finding a starting caliber PG?

The issue is with Jo you need to have shooting from your primary ball handler. The offense goes through droughts because we don’t have a playmaking PG.

So should this mean we remove Ben and fill this need? Maybe. But we may het less talented in the process. If I have to move Ben it would have to be more reasons than just not shooting. But I think a reasonable deal or idea could be Ben for KAT.

That said I like the idea of adding and not subtracting. Is there a PG besides Lowry that we could get? Or play making guard? My first thought was Kemba but that’s not feasible.

It would seem that adding Lowry would be the best route to go.

Ferry Avenue · Post #2 » by **Ferry Avenue** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:43 pm

Imagine yourself as a fan of another NBA team, facing the Sixers in the playoffs.

Are you glad to see Ben Simmons on the court -- at any position -- facing you?

That tells you all you need to know about whether he should remain on this team.

Chocolate or Thunder? · Post #3 » by **Chocolate or Thunder?** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:48 pm

Here’s the thing though. We were still the number one seed with Ben. Still up by 20+ points with Ben and should have won the series. But to your point his weaknesses gets exposed eventually.

M thinking about and I’m answering my own question. The issue I’m having is I don’t want to lower our talent level. So KAT would be a good solution to me. Harden would have been the ultimate solution.

VDT · Post #4 » by **VDT** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:59 pm

The team needs someone to run the offense in the half court. They need someone to generate easy shots for others. Embiid is not really that guy, he is primarily an iso scorer/defender and only secondarily someone to run your offense through. Simmons can create shots for others only in the transition. How good is the guy that runs the offense will determine the ceiling of the team offensively. Harden would have been ideal. Now there are no good solutions, possibly not even mediocre.

The team has talent, it is just hard to maximize it at the same time. More problematic is the mental make up of the team as they have been consistently underperforming in the postseason. Losing to a young inexperienced team like the Hawks with homecourt advantage is a terrible look for the team and points to a team that is weak mentally/ has low IQ, something that is very hard to overcome without changing the core of the team. The Sixers have getting playoff experience for 4 years, they got the #1 seed, their main players are in their prime yet they lost to a Hawks team that hasnt been in the playoffs before, losing 3 of their homecourt games. This series shouldnt have even been close, the Sixers should have won it 4-1 or 4-2 at the most. The loss is embarrassing and i am pretty sure that the players themselves dont believe they can do much better as a team at this point. The loss must have crushed their spirit. No surprise Embiid made the comment about Simmons.

Bum Adebayo · Post #5 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:10 pm

Chocolate or Thunder? wrote:Here’s the thing though. We were still the number one seed with Ben. Still up by 20+ points with Ben and should have won the series. But to your point his weaknesses gets exposed eventually.

M thinking about and I’m answering my own question. The issue I’m having is I don’t want to lower our talent level. So KAT would be a good solution to me. Harden would have been the ultimate solution.

It is not all about talent. Ben Simmons is one of the most talented players in the world, yet he plays like he has average talent. You need to identify players that are willing to maximize their potential and not coast on talent.

rzzzzz · Post #6 » by **rzzzzz** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:14 pm

VDT wrote:The loss must have crushed their spirit. No surprise Embiid made the comment about Simmons.

A couple of months ago, Embiid said he purposely drifts to the perimeter to open things up for Ben to operate, and was practically begging Ben to take more shots. Embiid has to hang out more in the post, and not leave his feat so much, cause of too many bad landingings. Ben needs some serious intervention, not more rationalized coddling.

Mik317 · Post #7 » by **Mik317** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:18 pm

idk.

This is totally the inner negative nancy talking but it really feels like we are kinda stuck lol.

I think the inevitable Ben trade is something that no one really likes and it will 100% be betting on addition by subtraction. I don't currently see a world in which we get actual value for him that makes us obviously better in terms of what we get back.

CJ is probably the "best" realistic outcome and despite everything that alone does not really make me feel like we are that much better. But **** it. It has to happen at this point.

Its the other moves that will make or break things IMO. The Ben trade will be simply tearing off the band aid IMO>

phiphan · Post #8 » by **phiphan** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:27 pm

I hate Ben on this team, but trading him this offseason is the epitome of a "sell low" moment. Add a starting point guard, rehab Ben's reputation, and sell him before the All-Star break.

Mik317 · Post #9 » by **Mik317** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:40 pm

how do we just add a starting PG tho?

kriss73 · Post #10 » by **kriss73** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:56 pm

Mik317 wrote:how do we just add a starting PG tho?

I think you have two chances:

1. keep on developing Maxey and trying to build a good part of the offense on a Maxey-Biid p&r: this year Maxey hasn't any play designed for him and Embiid;

2. copycat the Bucks-move, i.e packaging Hill + Maxey and or Thybulle + picks for a reliable starting guard.

eyeatoma · Post #11 » by **eyeatoma** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:56 pm

phiphan wrote:I hate Ben on this team, but trading him this offseason is the epitome of a "sell low" moment. Add a starting point guard, rehab Ben's reputation, and sell him before the All-Star break.

You also run the risk of Simmons being so traumatized that he's even worse when we start the new season. By that point even players like CJ might be out of your reach. We can't keep skirting this issue. Even if we get negative value it's time.

ProcessDoctor · Post #12 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:10 pm

Both. In addition to Ben for CJ/RoCo/pick(s). Figure out a Curry/Hill S&T for Lowry.

Lowry/Maxey/FA
McCollum/Milton/Joe
Covington/Thybulle/SRP
Harris/FRP/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed

Eyeamok · Post #13 » by **Eyeamok** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:11 pm

phiphan wrote:I hate Ben on this team, but trading him this offseason is the epitome of a "sell low" moment. Add a starting point guard, rehab Ben's reputation, and sell him before the All-Star break.

I agree with you. Selling low is not the correct move. Ben just shat the bed on prime time TV not once but 7 times. Even the games the 76ers won Ben was awful. But truth of the matter is Ben has been coddled by the 76ers. People are upset for Doc saying he does not know if Ben could be a starting PG. Good that needs to be said. People are mad that Embiid threw Ben under the bus. Good that needed to be done. Ben needs some tough love and he just got it. Ben needs to be exposed on national TV and it just happened. He does not respond to being coddled so now comes the tough love. The coach the fans and his teammates are/have soured on him somewhat. He needs to comeback stronger mentally and with a stronger offensive game. Can he do it ? The homer in me hopes so. Then we can talk about trading him. But trading him for pennies on the dollar is not the answer.

Hipster Doofus · Post #14 » by **Hipster Doofus** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:13 pm

If, IF, Ben is here to start next season, I don't want him as a point guard. I don't even want him on ball-handling duties.

Give me a starting 5 of:

Maxey (if no other starting point guard found during offseason)
Seth
Tobi (if still here)
Ben
Embiid

Yes, it'll clog up the paint for Embiid, but idgaf, I cannot accept anymore a point guard who not only cannot shoot, but is unwilling to shoot AT ALL. Let Ben do his great passing from the interior (inside out) vs. as a point guard (outside in).

Then trade his a55 before the All-Star break once his reputation rises again during the first few months of the season.

Ferry Avenue · Post #15 » by **Ferry Avenue** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:16 pm

Eyeamok wrote:
phiphan wrote:I hate Ben on this team, but trading him this offseason is the epitome of a "sell low" moment. Add a starting point guard, rehab Ben's reputation, and sell him before the All-Star break.

I agree with you. Selling low is not the correct move. Ben just shat the bed on prime time TV not once but 7 times. Even the games the 76ers won Ben was awful. But truth of the matter is Ben has been coddled by the 76ers. People are upset for Doc saying he does not know if Ben could be a starting PG. Good that needs to be said. People are mad that Embiid threw Ben under the bus. Good that needed to be done. Ben needs some tough love and he just got it. Ben needs to be exposed on national TV and it just happened. He does not respond to being coddled so now comes the tough love. The coach the fans and his teammates are/have soured on him somewhat. He needs to comeback stronger mentally and with a stronger offensive game. Can he do it ? The homer in me hopes so. Then we can talk about trading him. But trading him for pennies on the dollar is not the answer.

Trading him is most certainly the answer, because it immediately frees up salary cap to spend on a far better player.

Don't expect to ever win a championship with a player like this absorbing the percentage of your salary cap Simmons does.

Eyeamok · Post #16 » by **Eyeamok** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:25 pm

Ferry Avenue wrote:
Eyeamok wrote:
phiphan wrote:I hate Ben on this team, but trading him this offseason is the epitome of a "sell low" moment. Add a starting point guard, rehab Ben's reputation, and sell him before the All-Star break.

I agree with you. Selling low is not the correct move. Ben just shat the bed on prime time TV not once but 7 times. Even the games the 76ers won Ben was awful. But truth of the matter is Ben has been coddled by the 76ers. People are upset for Doc saying he does not know if Ben could be a starting PG. Good that needs to be said. People are mad that Embiid threw Ben under the bus. Good that needed to be done. Ben needs some tough love and he just got it. Ben needs to be exposed on national TV and it just happened. He does not respond to being coddled so now comes the tough love. The coach the fans and his teammates are/have soured on him somewhat. He needs to comeback stronger mentally and with a stronger offensive game. Can he do it ? The homer in me hopes so. Then we can talk about trading him. But trading him for pennies on the dollar is not the answer.

Trading him is most certainly the answer, because it immediately frees up salary cap to spend on a far better player.

Don't expect to ever win a championship with a player like this absorbing the percentage of your salary cap Simmons does.

You know you don't trade him in a vacuum ! If you trade him you take back salary. And I highly doubt anyone is giving you 30+ million in salary that expires next season.

Wilfried · Post #17 » by **Wilfried** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:27 pm

Canadian6ersFan wrote:If, IF, Ben is here to start next season, I don't want him as a point guard. I don't even want him on ball-handling duties.

Give me a starting 5 of:

Maxey (if no other starting point guard found during offseason)
Seth
Tobi (if still here)
Ben
Embiid

Yes, it'll clog up the paint for Embiid, but idgaf, I cannot accept anymore a point guard who not only cannot shoot, but is unwilling to shoot AT ALL. Let Ben do his great passing from the interior (inside out) vs. as a point guard (outside in).

Then trade his a55 before the All-Star break once his reputation rises again during the first few months of the season.

This way, you're not only forcing Embiid to ask for a trade, you also kill Harris' trade value by putting him at the SF again ...

If the only way to maximize Ben is, to force and twist and turn other players again in roles they are not suited for ... get rid of him than. We tried it, it hasn't worked out, to bad, but don't keep on dreaming.

Hipster Doofus · Post #18 » by **Hipster Doofus** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:32 pm

Wilfried wrote:
This way, you're not only forcing Embiid to ask for a trade, you also kill Harris' trade value by putting him at the SF again ...

If the only way to maximize Ben is, to force and twist and turn other players again in roles they are not suited for ... get rid of him than. We tried it, it hasn't worked out, to bad, but don't keep on dreaming.

That's why I wrote 'IF' in capital letters. I think we've seen Ben's last game as a Sixers. Started with a thud on draft night, is gonna leave on a whimper.

Can't wait for him to leave and for us to have a normal-sized point guard who can shoot and pass and run pick and rolls. Basic sh**t.

davesilver · Post #19 » by **davesilver** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:56 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:Both. In addition to Ben for CJ/RoCo/pick(s). Figure out a Curry/Hill S&T for Lowry.

Lowry/Maxey/FA
McCollum/Milton/Joe
Covington/Thybulle/SRP
Harris/FRP/Tolliver
Embiid/Howard/Reed

I like this

SixthStreet · Post #20 » by **SixthStreet** » Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:27 pm

Simmons to full time PF with no ball handling duties, Harris gone. Acquire a PG in the Harris trade or via a Thybulle trade. If you can't give Maxey the keys to the offense.

Priority 1, 2, and 3 for me is dumping Harris. Don't do anything until that's done. I think he low-key hurts both Simmons and Embiid's games with his lack of floor spacing and dribble happy foul avoidance isolation. Plus he does all this damage and has no ability to create shots for others. He is the primary problem.