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Tobias Harris Trade Thread

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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#361 » by Tomjas » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:27 am

FlyingArrow wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
Markkanen might fit better with Embiid, too. He stretches the floor more than Tobias does. A couple years ago, he was seen as a future All-Star. He's probably a notch below Tobias right now in terms of player rankings, but I think they're about equal in the sense that they're both 50/50 to ever make an all-star team, and neither will be a regular there. Markkanen's youth gives him more value, so as players I have them about equal value. The question is whether anything can be done to make a trade work given Tobias' contract and Markkanen's status.


The problem with this scenario is that Embiid, Maxey, and I guess Shake will be our only offensive creators on this team which is... problematic to say the least.


Hopefully trading Simmons gets another creator.

I was actually hoping we'd sign Tobias to a huge contract back when we signed him. Signing him was a great idea if we were bringing back JJ and Jimmy, because that would've meant we were going over the cap and there was no way to sign a comparable replacement. I knew Tobias would be the most 'overpriced' of the 3, so I thought the Sixers might let him walk to be able to afford the other 2. Keeping JJ and Jimmy should have been priorities that offseason. Losing them and signing Al Horford was such a bad move. Tobias' huge contract only made sense if we had no other options because Jimmy and JJ pushed us over the cap. Giving Tobias that contract *and* signing Al *and* losing Jimmy and JJ... what an offseason.

So the contract was a mistake at the outset. But I don't quite get the need to trade Tobias now. His contract is terrible, but he's a quality player and we're over the cap. Since he has a terrible contract, it's hard (or impossible) to get back equal value.


I haven’t heard a single remotely credible trade rumour about Tobias

Given his role in recruiting Danny, I fully expect him to be staying
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#362 » by FlyingArrow » Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:44 am

Tomjas wrote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
The problem with this scenario is that Embiid, Maxey, and I guess Shake will be our only offensive creators on this team which is... problematic to say the least.


Hopefully trading Simmons gets another creator.

I was actually hoping we'd sign Tobias to a huge contract back when we signed him. Signing him was a great idea if we were bringing back JJ and Jimmy, because that would've meant we were going over the cap and there was no way to sign a comparable replacement. I knew Tobias would be the most 'overpriced' of the 3, so I thought the Sixers might let him walk to be able to afford the other 2. Keeping JJ and Jimmy should have been priorities that offseason. Losing them and signing Al Horford was such a bad move. Tobias' huge contract only made sense if we had no other options because Jimmy and JJ pushed us over the cap. Giving Tobias that contract *and* signing Al *and* losing Jimmy and JJ... what an offseason.

So the contract was a mistake at the outset. But I don't quite get the need to trade Tobias now. His contract is terrible, but he's a quality player and we're over the cap. Since he has a terrible contract, it's hard (or impossible) to get back equal value.


I haven’t heard a single remotely credible trade rumour about Tobias

Given his role in recruiting Danny, I fully expect him to be staying


I agree. But there are a good number of people in the forum who say trading Tobias is priority one.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#363 » by LeonJordanJr24 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:51 am

Moving Tobias Harris for a shot creating guard of his level is crucial for this team. We lack that on this team ..Ben skills and attributes are best utilities as a PF who pushes the ball on fastbreaks.

Tobias occupy's the midrange often and isn't the scorer I hoped him to be.

The emergence of Paul Reed makes this a no brainer in my book.


Curry/ Maxey
******/ Korkmaz/.shake
Green/.Thybulle / Joe
Simmons/ Niang/.Reed
Embiid /.Drummond
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#364 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:05 am

I think the issue with trading Tobi is it’s likely going to be just a sideways move at best.

You’re likely trading an 18ppg scorer with above average defense for an 18ppg scorer with below average defense being compensated by the ability to run pick and roll which has nill value with Ben on the team.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#365 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:37 am

It has more value by definition by opening up the court.

If Ben is on the floor it has to be 4 shooters/ballhandlers. Joel, Ben and Harris all get in each other’s way because all three it’s the interior as their best attacking positions.

CJ will always be a better fit than Harris let’s not kid ourselves here.

You can then run small ball when Embiid sits and have zero need for Drummond then (Backup or starting big when Embiid sits). Alternatively there’s Reed or better yet Niang as the run with partner for Ben when he himself is playing as the roll man/transition runner and as the only big on the floor that has shown to work.

So if Ben is on Drummond isnt
Drummond on Ben sits

Easy stagger.

Also it compliments our best player Embiid much much better. We tried 3ball spam with Tobias to disastrous results against the Raptors. He’s not that player. CJ for example would just bomb 6+ a night and he’d be well comfortable with it.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#366 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:47 am

First form - JJ Redick (one dimensional)
Second form - Seth Curry (two dimensional)
Final form - CJ MCCollum (Psuedo three dimensional)

So each player the archetype gets an upgrade lol. Those two had their career peaks here... I wonder why?

For all the flaws with Embiid and Ben they do bring the exact outlet for those types of players to go nuts.

It’s basically you want to shoot 8 threes in three quarters? Be my guest shoot away.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#367 » by Tomjas » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:22 am

DCasey91 wrote:First form - JJ Redick (one dimensional)
Second form - Seth Curry (two dimensional)
Final form - CJ MCCollum (Psuedo three dimensional)

So each player the archetype gets an upgrade lol. Those two had their career peaks here... I wonder why?

For all the flaws with Embiid and Ben they do bring the exact outlet for those types of players to go nuts.

It’s basically you want to shoot 8 threes in three quarters? Be my guest shoot away.


I think it’s safe to assume that Ben is going so let’s try a different tack from that position

Think fit not value

Trade Ben for CJ & a pick or 2

Love to bring RoCo back as part of the deal but it’s going to be hard enough to convince Dame to allow CJ to go without taking another starter

Then trade Tobias (and a pick from above if necessary) for Myles Turner & Jeremy Lamb

Everyone is a spacer and Turner brings quality defence

Those guys make way more sense than trying to fit 3 square pegs into one one round hole

There’s many other options if you think outside the square
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#368 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:38 am

Your talking to me. Outside of the box is the best form of coming up with ideas.

I wanted Wall + Pick 2 (Green) for Ben plus change lol.

They were looking at drafting Mobley and of course trading up for the number one pick, Cade.

Embiid would die from exhaustion from that dynamic backcourt but oh well.

Or Green/Embiid is the modern Kobe/Shaq.

That how high I rate Green.

Look I’d rather have Barnes +, or literally Gary Harris + Ross then Tobias.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#369 » by FlyingArrow » Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:57 pm

Tomjas wrote:Then trade Tobias (and a pick from above if necessary) for Myles Turner & Jeremy Lamb


In my simulation league, Jeremy Lamb was a 5-time MVP, so this sounds like a good plan. :D
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#370 » by the_process » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:19 pm

Wonder if they could do something where Tobias goes to Cleveland, Kevin Love and two protected 1sts (one from each team) go to Orlando, and Gary Harris and Terrence Ross come to Philly? Orlando then buys out Love, he can go sign his minimum deal in Portland, and Lillard can be happy to not ask for a trade and instead get another 1st round exit.

That seems like a no brainer all around. Tobias is addition by subtraction. He occupies the same spots on the floor where Ben and Jo want to be. He’s not really a catch and shoot guy, he needs to dribble to get in rhythm. And he’s not a volume 3 point shooter.
It is highly unlikely that the Sixers will agree with your Ben Simmons evaluation for the purposes of a trade.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#371 » by SixersSince82 » Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:33 pm

76ciology wrote:I think the issue with trading Tobi is it’s likely going to be just a sideways move at best.

You’re likely trading an 18ppg scorer with above average defense for an 18ppg scorer with below average defense being compensated by the ability to run pick and roll which has nill value with Ben on the team.


Why are we assuming the incoming player would be worse defensively than Tobias? Its not like Harris is anything special on that end.

Why act like offense and defense are equal with this squad, anyway? They were top 3 in defense for the season while being a mediocre 13th in offensive efficiency on the season. They NEED to improve the O. Even if it comes at some expense to the defense they should still be more than good on that end.

Why does more PnR creation have nil value with Ben here? It's not like Ben plays all 48 minutes a game. This team needs more PnR period. If they acquire a quality PnR player its on the coach to play Ben differently, not to spend another season catering to Ben to the detriment of the rest of the guys on the team. It's one thing to suggest Brett Brown a push over But if Doc can't command the locker room, can't command the style of play, than he's not 1/2 the coach people seem to think he is.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#372 » by stormi » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:57 am

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2117798

Apparently the Cavs have targeted Harris. And Sexton is still on the block.

Simple trade. Harris+Milton for Sexton+Love. Salaries balance. We get a shotcreator and a jumbo stretch forward that I could see having a Batum type revitalization here. Also the perfect four alongside Jo (and Ben). Quick trigger, spams threes, solid defending elite rebounder. And Sexton can be our out and out lead shotcreator.

Sexton/Maxey
Green/Curry
Simmons/Thybulle/Korkmaz
Love/Niang/Reed
Embiid/Drummond

I think that team is close.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#373 » by 76ciology » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:59 am

I like a maxey-sexton backcourt. I also think both guys can develop into better shooters
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#374 » by stormi » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:02 am

76ciology wrote:I like a maxey-sexton backcourt. I also think both guys can develop into better shooters


It would be a pretty overwhelming duo for opposing teams to handle. When Maxey comes out Sexton comes in - and vice versa. But I think there would be diminishing returns on investments playing them together. They want to do the same thing and neither are at their best in a catch and shoot role. Also that's quite the diminutive duo. Munchkins, even. Like some might say.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#375 » by 76ciology » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:12 am

stormi wrote:
76ciology wrote:I like a maxey-sexton backcourt. I also think both guys can develop into better shooters


It would be a pretty overwhelming duo for opposing teams to handle. When Maxey comes out Sexton comes in - and vice versa. But I think there would be diminishing returns on investments playing them together. They want to do the same thing and neither are at their best in a catch and shoot role. Also that's quite the diminutive duo. Munchkins, even. Like some might say.


Yeah, I’d expect them to be staggered. Sexton likely to start then Maxey plays off the bench. I also expect Doc trying to develop 5 man units with both guys until we have both guys closing out games for us.

Wont fit perfectly early on. But it can work on the short term then a good chance to be really good in the future if both guys can be better shooters.

I also like the fit with Ben who I also think fits nice with a duo scoring backcourt like this.

Maxey or Sexton are nowhere near as good as Harden or Doncic in creating gravity, but I think you may create the same level of gravity with both Sexton and Maxey trying to drive and draw kind of like the Spurs offense back then with Tony Parker and Manu.

So instead of redundant, i look at it as overdrive.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#376 » by cool93 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:34 am

That feels like too good of a deal. Cavs probably hang up the phone, lol

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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#377 » by stormi » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:41 am

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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#378 » by SixersFanInNY » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:36 am

cool93 wrote:That feels like too good of a deal. Cavs probably hang up the phone, lol

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Sexton supposedly wants a max contract (and he aint worth it anymore than Tobias is). So whoever has him will either lose him or overpay. Since Love is also pricey, there is a good chance that Sexton would be just a 1 year rental.

To me, any trade for Sexton is reminiscent of the trade for Tobias when he didnt want to accept the Clips 4/80 offer.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#379 » by 76ciology » Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:24 am

SixersFanInNY wrote:
cool93 wrote:That feels like too good of a deal. Cavs probably hang up the phone, lol

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Sexton supposedly wants a max contract (and he aint worth it anymore than Tobias is). So whoever has him will either lose him or overpay. Since Love is also pricey, there is a good chance that Sexton would be just a 1 year rental.

To me, any trade for Sexton is reminiscent of the trade for Tobias when he didnt want to accept the Clips 4/80 offer.


I’d rather have Sexton than Tobias. So i wouldnt mind trading those two for one another, but I need compensation. I’d do something like pick swap option in 2022 while Sixers give a 2023 1st round pick. 8-)

Sexton
Love
Cavs 2022 pick swap option

For

Milton
Tobias
Sixers 2023 1st round pick
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#380 » by Foshan » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:01 am

I still don't think we are looking to move Harris, but personally i could handle that deal. Don't sexton and love hate eachother? that could make things awkward maybe but i'd rather do this than sell simmons at an all time low

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