ImageImageImage

Tobias Harris Trade Thread

Moderators: BullyKing, HartfordWhalers, Foshan, sixers hoops, Sixerscan

User avatar
Sixersftw
RealGM
Posts: 16,164
And1: 6,283
Joined: Dec 23, 2006
Location: Shoot a 3 you coward
       

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#381 » by Sixersftw » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:28 pm

76ciology wrote:
SixersFanInNY wrote:
cool93 wrote:That feels like too good of a deal. Cavs probably hang up the phone, lol

Sent from my G3416 using RealGM mobile app


Sexton supposedly wants a max contract (and he aint worth it anymore than Tobias is). So whoever has him will either lose him or overpay. Since Love is also pricey, there is a good chance that Sexton would be just a 1 year rental.

To me, any trade for Sexton is reminiscent of the trade for Tobias when he didnt want to accept the Clips 4/80 offer.


I’d rather have Sexton than Tobias. So i wouldnt mind trading those two for one another, but I need compensation. I’d do something like pick swap option in 2022 while Sixers give a 2023 1st round pick. 8-)

Sexton
Love
Cavs 2022 pick swap option

For

Milton
Tobias
Sixers 2023 1st round pick


In theory this would be fine but I really am not keen on giving up a 1st rounder until we've made THE move. If the plan is still to move Simmons for a better player, the more picks we have the better. That way we avoid having to throw in current contributors or dealing with Stepien nonsense.
They say an analytics man doesn't have a heart, but I ran the numbers and nothing can be further from the truth - Sam Hinkie probably
Wisedude
Sophomore
Posts: 236
And1: 99
Joined: Jul 04, 2017

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#382 » by Wisedude » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:45 pm

I could see Sexton & Love for Tobias & Milton straight up. The Cavs are not trading/swapping draft picks as those are completely off limits. It is what it is. Tobias would have to waive his trade bonus too.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 49,040
And1: 15,800
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#383 » by 76ciology » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:51 pm

Foshan wrote:I still don't think we are looking to move Harris, but personally i could handle that deal. Don't sexton and love hate eachother? that could make things awkward maybe but i'd rather do this than sell simmons at an all time low


Tag team match in the locker room.
Sexton-Embiid vs Love-Drummond
“If anyone can refute me—show me I'm making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective—I'll gladly change. It's the truth I'm after, and the truth never harmed anyone." Marcus Aurelius.
FlyingArrow
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,316
And1: 635
Joined: May 29, 2018
   

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#384 » by FlyingArrow » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:21 pm

If we had unlimited funds, that trade sounds good. Losing Tobias would create an opening at PF. With Niang, Love, and B-Ball Paul, I'm sure we'd find a decent starter out of the 3. And Sexton would be the creator we need on the perimeter. But then we would have to overpay Sexton by basically the same amount that we've overpaid Tobias. But at least it would be an overpay at a position of higher need.

I don't think Tobias is going anywhere, but if he goes anywhere, that seems like one of the most reasonable options. But only if ownership wants to overpay to keep Sexton. I wouldn't dump Tobias just for a rental, especially if Love's contract comes along with Sexton (which would be necessary to balance salaries).

stormi wrote:Sexton/Maxey
Green/Curry
Simmons/Thybulle/Korkmaz
Love/Niang/Reed
Embiid/Drummond
User avatar
mjkvol
Junior
Posts: 409
And1: 234
Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#385 » by mjkvol » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:47 pm

stormi wrote:viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2117798

Apparently the Cavs have targeted Harris. And Sexton is still on the block.

Simple trade. Harris+Milton for Sexton+Love. Salaries balance. We get a shotcreator and a jumbo stretch forward that I could see having a Batum type revitalization here. Also the perfect four alongside Jo (and Ben). Quick trigger, spams threes, solid defending elite rebounder. And Sexton can be our out and out lead shotcreator.

Sexton/Maxey
Green/Curry
Simmons/Thybulle/Korkmaz
Love/Niang/Reed
Embiid/Drummond

I think that team is close.


Please, Daryl. I do that deal in a millisecond.
cool93
Veteran
Posts: 2,787
And1: 1,763
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
 

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#386 » by cool93 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:22 pm

Why would Cavs do that? Harris is still on a terrible contract that lasts longer that Love, Milton has no value. And Sexton even if they don't want to pay him is still a vluable asset. They woulf rather trade him for some meh pick that this crap.
HotelVitale
RealGM
Posts: 10,430
And1: 5,774
Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Location: West Philly, PA

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#387 » by HotelVitale » Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:22 am

cool93 wrote:Why would Cavs do that? Harris is still on a terrible contract that lasts longer that Love, Milton has no value. And Sexton even if they don't want to pay him is still a vluable asset. They woulf rather trade him for some meh pick that this crap.


Enough with this Harris 'terrible contract' stuff, been spending too much time on the trashy part of the general board. He's on a contract that every fringe all-star in his prime is going to get. That's his market price and many teams in the league would pay that same amount of money for him, so the phrase 'bad contract' shouldn't be mentioned around him.

That said, the Cavs are building around three guys under age 21 so there's not a ton of reason for them to take the vet max 29 year old scorer to avoid paying the rookie max to the 22 year old scorer. Plus I don't think Sexton has been on the block in the same way since Mobley fell to the Cavs (he and Garland and Jalen Green would not have been a nice trio).
FlyingArrow
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,316
And1: 635
Joined: May 29, 2018
   

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#388 » by FlyingArrow » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:15 am

Tobias does have a bad contract. Not terrible, but it is bad. Mainly because every veteran has a bad contract compared to rookie-deal guys who are rotation players, and max players. Those 2 groups are underpaid. But even in the context of him being a non-max veteran, he's overpaid by 5-10 million. Not enough to worry about for a team that is over the cap anyway. The Sixers shouldn't do that trade to get out of a bad contract (they're getting back a worse contract in Love). They do it to get a perimeter creator. Whichever one of Love/Niang/Reed that starts is a step down from Tobias, but it would be worth it to add Sexton.

For the Cavs, they get back a player of the same level, they get a rotation guard back in Shake, and they get out of a terrible contract in Love. They pay Tobias the same they were going to pay Love anyway, and they don't have to worry about Sexton's big upcoming contract. Sexton and Tobias are about the same level... fringe All-Stars. Tobias may have already missed his peak to ever make an All-Star team, but he's been mentioned more than once as a top All-Star snub. Sexton may suffer the same fate, or maybe he ends up making it once or thrice. More than 3 would shock me.

That trade is better for both teams on the court - addressing both teams' weaknesses. It's better for Cleveland financially. Even though Tobias' contract is 'bad' and is longer than Love's, Love's contract is worse because Tobias is that much of a better player. And, crucially, the Cavs also pre-emptively get out of Sexton's upcoming 'bad' contract, and they get something for Sexton to boot.

But I still say it only makes sense if Sixers' ownership is willing to eat a lot of luxury tax and pay to keep Sexton. Tobias going forward is more valuable than a one-year rental of Sexton.
cool93
Veteran
Posts: 2,787
And1: 1,763
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
 

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#389 » by cool93 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:48 am

Harris does absolutely nothing for Cavs while being paid 35 mln and why do they care about Love contract, they aren't contending in next two years. And they can buy him out next year. Harris is untradeable without attaching assets.

And Milton is nothing.

Sent from my G3416 using RealGM mobile app
DCasey91
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,737
And1: 2,397
Joined: Dec 15, 2020
   

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#390 » by DCasey91 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:49 am



If only, man Ingram/Embiid/Ben would be cold as hell.
DCasey91
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,737
And1: 2,397
Joined: Dec 15, 2020
   

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#391 » by DCasey91 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:13 am

Wait Sexton and Love?

For Harris and Milton?

Pick swaps too?

Surely the Cavs don’t do that. I don’t rate Sexton but I mean if we are going to commit robbery sign me up lol

I mean it’s clear to me they want to max Garland and not Sexton :) and build around him and Mobley.

Harris is a quality tank commander.
HotelVitale
RealGM
Posts: 10,430
And1: 5,774
Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Location: West Philly, PA

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#392 » by HotelVitale » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:40 pm

FlyingArrow wrote:Tobias does have a bad contract. Not terrible, but it is bad. Mainly because every veteran has a bad contract compared to rookie-deal guys who are rotation players, and max players. Those 2 groups are underpaid. But even in the context of him being a non-max veteran, he's overpaid by 5-10 million.
Not saying this to defend Tobias or anything, but this really doesn't work as a way of talking about or evaluating contracts. I get why you would want to make a simple schema in which 'X production = Y amount of $' but that's ignoring the most important factor here, which is scarcity/availability. I won't explain that view to death but here are a few ways to think about it in terms of opportunity and rarity.

As you said, the best contracts are very good players on rookie deals but those guys simply aren't available--period--for anything less than other elite value things. There are very few of those guys to begin with, and they're also by definition short term--they'll last at most for 3-4 years.

The other types of the best value contracts are elite-level stars, who are also by definition 'elite' and thus rare--and they also aren't available in general, without having to give back other types of elite assets. Every GM would immediately sell their parents to ISIS to take one if one of those guys became available, so they're worth well more than just the money they happen to be paid. I.e. they're off the charts in terms of value and make no sense as a guidepost on which to set what a 'max player' is worth in pure dollars.

That leaves a bunch of other players who are on some scale of rareness--from very good players who aren't quite elite down to replacement level guys who basically any team could get for minimal returns (or just min contracts). In my book, anyone who's a top-60 or so player in good health is going to be rare and desired enough that a max contract will be his acquisition value--you're generally not getting the guy without paying that (and if you are the player is very valuable). Some teams aren't in a good position to pay that price but that doesn't mean he's not 'worth' it or anything.
HotelVitale
RealGM
Posts: 10,430
And1: 5,774
Joined: Sep 14, 2007
Location: West Philly, PA

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#393 » by HotelVitale » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:04 pm

cool93 wrote:Harris is untradeable without attaching assets

I'm not a Tobias fan or anything but this isn't based in any reality. We can all easily make the argument that trading for and then maxing Harris was bad asset management, but grumbling about that is way way different from actually thinking that no team would take him without having to attach other valuable things. I'm very well aware he's not a real superstar, but he's a 20/7/3.5 guy (even better in the PO) who just missed a 50/40/90 season, he's in his prime and totally healthy, and he plays a position basically every wants more of (big wing/stretch 4). As importantly, there's no one better in the league who's going to be available for nothing but expirings. Even if there wasn't a long line of teams queuing up to take him, there are definitely a couple. I don't think that's a controversial item.

Also Russell Westbrook just got dumped with 2/91 left without any real assets attached, before his age-33 season. Harris is 3 years into his 5 year deal already, he's got 3/116 left and it will be totally over with when he's 31.
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 49,040
And1: 15,800
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#394 » by 76ciology » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:44 pm

Trade Tobi for KAT. Tell wolves NBA 2K said so.

Read on Twitter
“If anyone can refute me—show me I'm making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective—I'll gladly change. It's the truth I'm after, and the truth never harmed anyone." Marcus Aurelius.
SparksFly87
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,795
And1: 384
Joined: Mar 24, 2010

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#395 » by SparksFly87 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:54 pm

Tobias and Embiid as a duo got sweeped by Boston without Simmons yet we wanna keep him and trade Simmons lmao... :banghead:


Simmons and Embiid win alot of games and are a consistent favorite in the east as a duo.


Simmons is underutilized and out of position. Simmons is a 4 "point playmaking 4". and a great compliment to embiids game. High post passer best fastbreak pusher in the NBA. Elite Drive and kicker, defender ...

Tobias is a midrange iso player who doesnt score at a high clip. He's a terrible compliment to the all star duo we have.

We need to trade him for a high volume/ scoring perimeter star player. While his value is KAT level :lol: while the league idiots believes he's a all-star .
Tomjas
Analyst
Posts: 3,336
And1: 2,512
Joined: Nov 04, 2017
 

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#396 » by Tomjas » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:54 pm

Rumoured to be interested in Millsap

Logjam in paint incoming unless there’s moves
User avatar
76ciology
RealGM
Posts: 49,040
And1: 15,800
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Contact:

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#397 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:39 am

I think that when we acquired Tobi, we were banking that he can improve his shot making and eventually be low key 2nd option for the team that he can replace Jimmy’s scoring (not that hard to replace).

I think he should slide into more of an opportunistic 1v1 scorer while trying to be a high volume 3pt shooter with good percentage like kevin love instead.

We then can let Maxey fill Jimmy’s scoring or find another scorer off the Ben trade.
“If anyone can refute me—show me I'm making a mistake or looking at things from the wrong perspective—I'll gladly change. It's the truth I'm after, and the truth never harmed anyone." Marcus Aurelius.
LeonJordanJr24
Rookie
Posts: 1,217
And1: 253
Joined: Jul 18, 2013

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#398 » by LeonJordanJr24 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:36 pm

I want him outta here
Negrodamus
RealGM
Posts: 17,369
And1: 7,657
Joined: Aug 05, 2004

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#399 » by Negrodamus » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:37 pm

Yea, I also hate the excellent locker room leader who is our only non-Embiid scorer off the dribble and was one of the only consistently good players (aside from a game or two) in the playoffs.

The only, and I truly mean only, reason to trade him is because of his contract. Everything else about him is perfectly fine and even important on a championship team.
Tomjas
Analyst
Posts: 3,336
And1: 2,512
Joined: Nov 04, 2017
 

Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#400 » by Tomjas » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:52 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Yea, I also hate the excellent locker room leader who is our only non-Embiid scorer off the dribble and was one of the only consistently good players (aside from a game or two) in the playoffs.

The only, and I truly mean only, reason to trade him is because of his contract. Everything else about him is perfectly fine and even important on a championship team.


lol

The Sixers were always going to go as far as Joel and Ben took them

Failure to progress further is 100% on Ben, coaching and management but let’s not pretend that Tobias isn’t expendable

He’s on a massive contract and nowhere near worth it

Return to Philadelphia 76ers