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Tobias Harris Trade Thread

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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#401 » by Negrodamus » Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:16 pm

Tomjas wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Yea, I also hate the excellent locker room leader who is our only non-Embiid scorer off the dribble and was one of the only consistently good players (aside from a game or two) in the playoffs.

The only, and I truly mean only, reason to trade him is because of his contract. Everything else about him is perfectly fine and even important on a championship team.


lol

The Sixers were always going to go as far as Joel and Ben took them

Failure to progress further is 100% on Ben, coaching and management but let’s not pretend that Tobias isn’t expendable

He’s on a massive contract and nowhere near worth it


Once again, his contract is the only reason to even consider trading him. Ben is a much, much larger issue in terms of progressing as a championship team. If we had two Tobias's instead of Ben, we would have beaten the Hawks.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#402 » by stormi » Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:46 pm

Tobias Harris Fourth quarter playoff production against the Atlanta Hawks.

Game 1 - 2 PTS 0 AST 2 REB // (1/2) FG, (0/1) 3PM
Game 2 - 0 PTS 1 AST 3 REB // (0/3) FG (0/0) 3PM
Game 3 - 10 PTS 2 AST 3 REB // (4/6) FG (1/1) 3PM
Game 4 - 0 PTS 0 AST 0 REB // (0/2) FG (0/0) 3PM
Game 5 - 0 PTS 0 AST 0 REB // (0/3) FG (0/0) 3PM
Game 6 - 6 PTS 0 AST 0 REB // (1/5) FG (0/1) 3PM
Game 7 - 7 PTS 1 AST 5 REB // (3/8) FG (0/2) 3PM

#Leader?
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#403 » by Phila Tough » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:07 pm

stormi wrote:Tobias Harris Fourth quarter playoff production against the Atlanta Hawks.

Game 1 - 2 PTS 0 AST 2 REB // (1/2) FG, (0/1) 3PM
Game 2 - 0 PTS 1 AST 3 REB // (0/3) FG (0/0) 3PM
Game 3 - 10 PTS 2 AST 3 REB // (4/6) FG (1/1) 3PM
Game 4 - 0 PTS 0 AST 0 REB // (0/2) FG (0/0) 3PM
Game 5 - 0 PTS 0 AST 0 REB // (0/3) FG (0/0) 3PM
Game 6 - 6 PTS 0 AST 0 REB // (1/5) FG (0/1) 3PM
Game 7 - 7 PTS 1 AST 5 REB // (3/8) FG (0/2) 3PM

#Leader?


Yikes. That's inexcusable
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#404 » by Negrodamus » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:31 pm

Lol, that's not his job. Down the stretch, we need to rely on our actual stars to close out the game. He serves as the middle of the game 20 ppg scorer that keeps pace with the other team so we don't get blown out due to not running a decent offense since we lack an actual PG or alpha backcourt creator/scorer.

And leadership isn't determined by 4th quarter scoring. I don't understand why that metric is being the unit of measurement for leadership.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#405 » by stormi » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:38 pm

Wait, it's not the job of our highest paid player to help this team win games? The only reason it 'wouldn't be his job' would be because he's proven unreliable. If Tobias isn't scoring his on-court value is rather low. Games four and five were back to back three point losses and he was nowhere to be found in the grits.

Habitual little game player.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#406 » by Negrodamus » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:47 pm

He scored 20 points in game 4. Five was obviously his first truly bad game of the playoffs.

If you expecting more than 23 ppg from Tobias, then you're going to be let down. This is his game; none of it should be surprising. He did his job in the playoffs. Ben didn't even make double digits scoring in the series against ATL. If Ben hit his regular season average from last year (16 ppg), we would have closed out the Hawks in less than 6 games.

One of the two didn't do their job and his name starts with a B.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#407 » by Arsenal » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:06 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Lol, that's not his job. Down the stretch, we need to rely on our actual stars to close out the game. He serves as the middle of the game 20 ppg scorer that keeps pace with the other team so we don't get blown out due to not running a decent offense since we lack an actual PG or alpha backcourt creator/scorer.

And leadership isn't determined by 4th quarter scoring. I don't understand why that metric is being the unit of measurement for leadership.


Except he failed in this. Tobi + bench units that were supposed to keep us afloat instead got destroyed.

Over the last 3 seasons since he's been here, Tobi shrinks just as much, if not more, than Ben in the clutch.

He's an 82 game player not a 16 game player. Just like Ben.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#408 » by SixthStreet » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:30 pm

If Harris is going to be here next year he's got to change his game. It's past time to bank on any improvement in FTr but he can really lean into the floor spacer role and bomb 3s. He has to improve on his tendency of being a ball stopper, making quicker drive, shoot, or pass decisions when the ball comes his way. I'm cool if he still shoots a lot of mid range jumpers as long as there are of 1-2 dribble varieties. Just be faster with all the decisions and please please massively increase 3PAs.

He's not efficient enough to create offense for himself with 5-6 dribbles which is his comfort zone. That's got to go.

That said, I think my biggest problem with Tobias is that we have a much better PF than him already on the roster....
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#409 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:42 pm

As much as I don’t rate Sexton. If the Cavs are no sauce on the max then Harris + Milton for Sexton and Love is a fine move.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#410 » by Negrodamus » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:01 pm

Arsenal wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Lol, that's not his job. Down the stretch, we need to rely on our actual stars to close out the game. He serves as the middle of the game 20 ppg scorer that keeps pace with the other team so we don't get blown out due to not running a decent offense since we lack an actual PG or alpha backcourt creator/scorer.

And leadership isn't determined by 4th quarter scoring. I don't understand why that metric is being the unit of measurement for leadership.


Except he failed in this. Tobi + bench units that were supposed to keep us afloat instead got destroyed.

Over the last 3 seasons since he's been here, Tobi shrinks just as much, if not more, than Ben in the clutch.

He's an 82 game player not a 16 game player. Just like Ben.


Where do you think the 20 ppg that he scores would come from if he was omitted from the lineup in the Atlanta series? In the game he scored 4 points, it took role player Seth Curry scoring twice his playoff average (36 points) and another 37 herculean effort from Embiid to keep us close. I don't get why it matters when the points are being contributed. If Tobi was scoring 20ppg and anyone else showed up, literally anyone else (especially our second star), we win this series.

Also, I don't really care about anything other than this last season. The ironic part of this conversation is that I was ready to ship him out of Philly for cap relief the previous season. That's how little I thought of his game, leadership be damned. After watching him be one of the only two consistent contributors (the other being Embiid) on this roster in the playoffs, I don't feel hellbent on sending him out. Continuity and relationships are extremely important in this game too.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#411 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:39 pm

People have to know Harris was the worst starter against the Raptors... then we paid him the most out of everyone. No wonder Redick and Butler bounced lol. And then he sucked even harder against the Celtics the next year

58 attempts in two series for a paltry 24% from 3 and got to the line 27 times in 11 bloody games!

Face it Harris sucks. His job is to score that’s it. He sucks at that when push comes to shove.

Embiid/CJ or whoever/Ben

Over any trio with Harris outside of Lillard everyday and twice on Sundays.

Shake should have played more in the end. We still outscored the Hawks despite always being flawed.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#412 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:02 pm

Negrodamus wrote:The ironic part of this conversation is that I was ready to ship him out of Philly for cap relief the previous season. That's how little I thought of his game


Same.

75% of the fanbase has outdated evaluation of Harris, though. That's why you still see people that think he needs to be the first to go.

With Harris improved passing and shotcreating, the only major qualm I have with him is his weak ass trigger from three. Doesn't shoot enough.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#413 » by Iverson Armband » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:42 pm

It’s also why he didn’t make the ASG this year despite being better than Ben. Reputation precedes you.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#414 » by stormi » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:09 am

Negrodamus wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Lol, that's not his job. Down the stretch, we need to rely on our actual stars to close out the game. He serves as the middle of the game 20 ppg scorer that keeps pace with the other team so we don't get blown out due to not running a decent offense since we lack an actual PG or alpha backcourt creator/scorer.

And leadership isn't determined by 4th quarter scoring. I don't understand why that metric is being the unit of measurement for leadership.


Except he failed in this. Tobi + bench units that were supposed to keep us afloat instead got destroyed.

Over the last 3 seasons since he's been here, Tobi shrinks just as much, if not more, than Ben in the clutch.

He's an 82 game player not a 16 game player. Just like Ben.


Where do you think the 20 ppg that he scores would come from if he was omitted from the lineup in the Atlanta series? In the game he scored 4 points, it took role player Seth Curry scoring twice his playoff average (36 points) and another 37 herculean effort from Embiid to keep us close. I don't get why it matters when the points are being contributed. If Tobi was scoring 20ppg and anyone else showed up, literally anyone else (especially our second star), we win this series.

Also, I don't really care about anything other than this last season. The ironic part of this conversation is that I was ready to ship him out of Philly for cap relief the previous season. That's how little I thought of his game, leadership be damned. After watching him be one of the only two consistent contributors (the other being Embiid) on this roster in the playoffs, I don't feel hellbent on sending him out. Continuity and relationships are extremely important in this game too.


The same place his 20.9 ppg came from when he was shipped out as the leading scorer of that Clippers team a few years back that went on to make the playoffs anyways while Jerry West laughed all the way to the bank. The team didn't skip a beat and his bloated production (2's instead of 3's. No free throw volume) was dispersed within internally.

Harris statistically creates no net increase with Embiid+Simmons lineups. He's an empty stats merchant. This is put on full display when he has to be the best player on his five man unit for any stretch of game run.

He does provide somewhat consistent scoring and that's a valuable trait, in the same way Marcus Morris, Harrison Barnes, Danilo Gallinari and Bojan Bogdanovic do for their teams - but these aren't go to isolation scorers and you'd never pay them like one.

Khris Middleton separated himself from this tier specifically for his ability to get a bucket at the end of games. He can also pass the ball quite well.

Tobias isn't a bad player by any means as long as you keep it within the context that he's just a little game player that makes far too much money and is nearly 30 years old. Some people want Ben gone so bad they'll look past the fact that this guy hasn't stepped up once in the series' we've gone on to lose in three consecutive years.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#415 » by phifans » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:17 am

I don't mind we trade Tobi if the right deal comes. What I do mind is guys here pretend dealing Tobi is the solution to fix Ben Simmons and try to make up nonsense to make Tobi our biggest problem instead of Ben.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#416 » by Mik317 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:28 am

I'd trade Tobias in a heart beat

HOWEVA

You have to give dude credit; while he reverted back to old habits in the end (which when things are going bad....humans tend to do), he did fix some of the issues of previous seasons. Hopefully he comes back willing to shoot more 3s this year. This year we will have an actual training camp so hopefully Doc doesn't just rely on past stuff.....lol.

Again I'd trade Tobias too...but doubt we can get anything for him that isn't a downgrade or a lateral move at best. He can't be the main source of perimeter scoring tho.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#417 » by SixthStreet » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:35 am

The one sliver of hope I have on Harris is that Maxey usurps him as the primary source of perimeter shot creation and he can fall into a role where he can abuse mismatches (which he was really good at last year) and otherwise spaces the floor.

The NBA equivalent of JvR. Highly paid but sheltered limited role where he can maximize impact.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#418 » by DCasey91 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:47 am

Thing is though you’d need friggin peak Lou, peak Harrell, and Peak Gallo (who trumped Harris offensively anyway he was absurdly efficient) to make Harris even viable as a go to scorer for 20 points lol. Hence why Harris + Bench is crap and should never been even thought off at any time in playoffs lol.

So essentially two uber efficient offensive players and a perennial 6moy. Good luck. We don’t even have close to one from the bench.

I was intrigued by the Gallo signing at the Hawks on the bench... turns out he gave us the business. Always great having talent like that when fit and firing. I mean Gallo really is All Star lvl at his peak definitely offensive wise.

Love in theory could do the same for us on the bench. All Star level in short spurts is basically having 6 starters. Raptors did that with Ibaka and GSW with Iggy. These are quality players. Spurs did that for like a decade with Manu lol

Production is key off the bench.

0 games started against us:

Gallo 14.7/5 a game on 44% from 3, and 96% FT 65ts% rocking a 133 OrTg yikes!
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#419 » by Negrodamus » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:49 am

Mik317 wrote:I'd trade Tobias in a heart beat

HOWEVA

You have to give dude credit; while he reverted back to old habits in the end (which when things are going bad....humans tend to do), he did fix some of the issues of previous seasons. Hopefully he comes back willing to shoot more 3s this year. This year we will have an actual training camp so hopefully Doc doesn't just rely on past stuff.....lol.

Again I'd trade Tobias too...but doubt we can get anything for him that isn't a downgrade or a lateral move at best. He can't be the main source of perimeter scoring tho.


I’m with you. News flash, we’re not getting Sexton for him. Whatever we can get for him will be diminishing returns compared to what he provides and means to this team.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#420 » by phifans » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:45 am

Tobi is being paid to be one of the best third option here. FO decide they need to overpay to get him and they think we can be that luxury because we have two superstars incoming. But when Ben prove he can't live up to his expectations guys here decide to turn on Tobi for why he can't be a better one. lol.

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