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Tobias Harris Trade Thread

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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#421 » by DCasey91 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:49 am

phifans wrote:Tobi is being paid to be one of the best third option here. FO decide they need to overpay to get him and they think we can be that luxury because we have two superstars incoming. But when Ben prove he can't live up to his expectations guys here decide to turn on Tobi for why he can't be a better one. lol.


Nope Sexton plus Love with one less year is what your looking at for Harris. It’s not a bad idea at all.

Either stick with Harris or move him but we don’t give up an asset and actually gain one in Sexton.

Harris sucks for what he gets paid an enormous amount to do.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#422 » by Mik317 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:28 am

its more like Harrison Barnes for Tobias. You aren't getting an asset for him...not without giving up something else andnthen at that stage why do it.

Its very similar to the Ben issue... we spend so much time saying this dude sucks ass...and yet expect to be able to get young guys who fix our issues when thats just not how that works..

Morey moved off of Horford and Jrich and got Danny and Seth. Good players, who fit better but not young or perfect fits. Thats the likely return for Tobias right now IMO. Ben has the youth and deserved or not accolades on his side. Tobias has "he is a really nice guy"... That contract is nuclear man. Great dude. Solid player. Flawed in ways that makes it hard to take on said contract....and especially giving up something of value. The Cavs can do better on a Sexton trade IMO. Don't think they are in a rush to move off of Love's contract (again will probably just buy him out and he goes ring chasing or back home to Portland).. Why would they give up one of their better players for the right to overpay Tobias Harris? Even if they don't want to pay Sexton and want to go with Garland full time...Tobias makes no sense for them. I mean hell he'd be blocking Mobley from playing ffs. Not happening IMO.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#423 » by DCasey91 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:44 am

1. It’s the Cavs. When your enemy makes a mistake be silent and let them.

2. If the Cavs don’t want the max for Sexton they need to fill in the blanks with $$$. One thing Harris is, is durable. Perfect tank commander. Mobley is a 4/5. Harris will be the 3 and Allen the 5. Nance off the bench, so a lot of protection for him in his rookie year. Then you can max both Mobley and Garland at the perfect window. Keep or trade Allen & Harris both and get more assets. That’s actually good business asset management if you do have to fill the cap. Which every team has to by the rules.
91 mil in 2022-23 or something like that. Harris at the Cavs = basically cap filled extra 10 mill with min contracts. Same list basically

Money is good, team is fine. Win win.

The timelines matchup. It’s actually one of the best strategies to overpay or take on a small time length bad contract just before the youngins get their bag.

We did do that for Redick remember.

3. Love goes for a player that plays currently.

4. Your right there’s much better moves for Sexton but refer to point one.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#424 » by phifans » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:48 am

Mik317 wrote:its more like Harrison Barnes for Tobias. You aren't getting an asset for him...not without giving up something else andnthen at that stage why do it.

Its very similar to the Ben issue... we spend so much time saying this dude sucks ass...and yet expect to be able to get young guys who fix our issues when thats just not how that works..

Morey moved off of Horford and Jrich and got Danny and Seth. Good players, who fit better but not young or perfect fits. Thats the likely return for Tobias right now IMO. Ben has the youth and deserved or not accolades on his side. Tobias has "he is a really nice guy"... That contract is nuclear man. Great dude. Solid player. Flawed in ways that makes it hard to take on said contract....and especially giving up something of value. The Cavs can do better on a Sexton trade IMO. Don't think they are in a rush to move off of Love's contract (again will probably just buy him out and he goes ring chasing or back home to Portland).. Why would they give up one of their better players for the right to overpay Tobias Harris? Even if they don't want to pay Sexton and want to go with Garland full time...Tobias makes no sense for them. I mean hell he'd be blocking Mobley from playing ffs. Not happening IMO.


The thing is … if Ben is as good as we expect when we signed Tobi then Tobi won't be a big problem ...

Now we won't get any better player by trading Tobi and trading anyone won't solve our biggest trouble caused by Ben Simmons.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#425 » by DCasey91 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:05 am

No the biggest mistake was giving out the most money first in FA to the worst playoff performer that year.

I’ll always stand by Harris being the biggest elephant in the room and once that deal was dealt was the death kneel to being hard capped as a fodder team. He’s a journeyman right when pay day comes he gets shipped fast.

Our 2man, 3man and 5man lineups have always involved Embiid + Ben even from the beginning when it first started.

Harris is neutrality in impact because he doesn’t bring variation. Redick then Curry did. Final form is CJ

It’s so damn obvious.

And with that contract is a massive and I mean massive overpay. Your only job is to score and you went and got 4 points for the whole game when your only job is to do that and nothing else. But hey your direct opponents in Collins and Gallo lit it up... hmmm

Embiid + Ben guarantees 50+ wins and a 2nd rnd level we’ve been the same outside of Butler. That’s a huge platform to go off from but due to poor asset management and blunder after blunder we are stuck now in rebuild territory rather than contention.

Quick experiment:

Say we lose Harris for nothing, nothing at all. Guess what? It’s a 50 win team at minimum and a second rnd lvl starting point.

Case closed.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#426 » by Negrodamus » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:10 am

“We don’t want to max this 22 year old who averaged 25 a game last year, we should trade him for a 29 year old who averaged 22 a game on a max contract because… he’s durable?”

- The Cavs according to this board
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#427 » by stormi » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:17 am

I don't think anyone is realistically saying Tobias is worth Sexton. It's a deflection of the actual point that Tobias Harris is a statistical irrelevance on playoff success while also being a poor fit alongside Joel Embiid.

I'd move Tobias for a number of different packages. There are teams out there like Utah and Memphis that seem to be in search of more concentrated scoring. In the process they've made Kyle Anderson & Ingles/Bogdanovic available for trade. The Jazz were primed to max Harris the summer we did, before we chose him over Butler.

Anderson + Melton + Beverley for Harris? Sure.

Ingles + Bogdanovic for Harris? Sure. Throw in Shake? No problem.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#428 » by Tomjas » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:22 am

DCasey91 wrote:No the biggest mistake was giving out the most money first in FA to the worst playoff performer that year.

I’ll always stand by Harris being the biggest elephant in the room and once that deal was dealt was the death kneel to being hard capped as a fodder team. He’s a journeyman right when pay day comes he gets shipped fast.

Our 2man, 3man and 5man lineups have always involved Embiid + Ben even from the beginning when it first started.

Harris is neutrality in impact because he doesn’t bring variation. Redick then Curry did. Final form is CJ

It’s so damn obvious.

And with that contract is a massive and I mean massive overpay. Your only job is to score and you went and got 4 points for the whole game when your only job is to do that and nothing else. But hey your direct opponents in Collins and Gallo lit it up... hmmm

Embiid + Ben guarantees 50+ wins and a 2nd rnd level we’ve been the same outside of Butler. That’s a huge platform to go off from but due to poor asset management and blunder after blunder we are stuck now in rebuild territory rather than contention.

Quick experiment:

Say we lose Harris for nothing, nothing at all. Guess what? It’s a 50 win team at minimum and a second rnd lvl starting point.

Case closed.


Our best rotations

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612755/lineups-advanced?CF=MIN*G*25&GroupQuantity=5&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING

Scoreboard never lies

And for those down the back, I AM NOT SAYING THAT SIMMONS SHOULD NOT BE TRADED
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#429 » by Sportfan73 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:23 am

stormi wrote:I don't think anyone is realistically saying Tobias is worth Sexton. It's deflection of the actual point that Tobias Harris is a statistical anchor on playoff success while also being a poor fit alongside Joel Embiid.

I'd move Tobias for a number of different packages. There are teams out there like Utah and Memphis that seem to be in search of more concentrated scoring. In the process they've made Kyle Anderson & Ingles/Bogdanovic available for trade. The Jazz were primed to max Harris the summer we did, before we chose him over Butler.

Anderson + Melton + Beverley for Harris? Sure.

Ingles + Bogdanovic for Harris? Sure. Throw in Shake? No problem.

I think Harris stunts some of Simmons scoring growth more than we realize. Moving him for the Utah package would be more than ideal. All in on shooting around Ben and Jo + Maxey in time
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#430 » by Tomjas » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:26 am

Negrodamus wrote:“We don’t want to max this 22 year old who averaged 25 a game last year, we should trade him for a 29 year old who averaged 22 a game on a max contract because… he’s durable?”

- The Cavs according to this board


Tbf, it’s the Cavs who are baulking at paying Sexton the max and have a problem with Love

Whether that means that they would be open to trading them for Harris is another matter entirely
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#431 » by Sportfan73 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:26 am

Tomjas wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:No the biggest mistake was giving out the most money first in FA to the worst playoff performer that year.

I’ll always stand by Harris being the biggest elephant in the room and once that deal was dealt was the death kneel to being hard capped as a fodder team. He’s a journeyman right when pay day comes he gets shipped fast.

Our 2man, 3man and 5man lineups have always involved Embiid + Ben even from the beginning when it first started.

Harris is neutrality in impact because he doesn’t bring variation. Redick then Curry did. Final form is CJ

It’s so damn obvious.

And with that contract is a massive and I mean massive overpay. Your only job is to score and you went and got 4 points for the whole game when your only job is to do that and nothing else. But hey your direct opponents in Collins and Gallo lit it up... hmmm

Embiid + Ben guarantees 50+ wins and a 2nd rnd level we’ve been the same outside of Butler. That’s a huge platform to go off from but due to poor asset management and blunder after blunder we are stuck now in rebuild territory rather than contention.

Quick experiment:

Say we lose Harris for nothing, nothing at all. Guess what? It’s a 50 win team at minimum and a second rnd lvl starting point.

Case closed.


Our best rotations

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612755/lineups-advanced?CF=MIN*G*25&GroupQuantity=5&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING

Scoreboard never lies

And for those down the back, I AM NOT SAYING THAT SIMMONS SHOULD NOT BE TRADED

What it tells me is if the return isn’t right it is worth retooling around Ben and Jo, the impact will only look better and better with more fits and it’s already elite by the numbers
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#432 » by stormi » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:31 am

I remember when Cristiano Ronaldo left United he did an interview where he said he rarely ever spoke to his teammates when he wasn't on the field. They knew their objective. They were there to win, and to be good teammates on the pitch; not much else.

This is coming from a guy that was apart of an utterly dominant squad that won it all. 3 domestic titles, an FA cup, 3 EFL cups and a Champions League in like half a decade.

We need to stop sprinkling artificial value on top of players because they come to the arena carrying a book, or make quirky skits for the media team or post personal vlogs that form intimate parasocial relationships between us and them.

And I don't see it as Tobias vs. Ben. I think every realistic fan has a price they're willing to let them go for, for me however that bar is set much lower for Tobias. I do not see him as a solution piece in any scenario. I can with Ben.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#433 » by Mik317 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:42 am

two different sports

and neither Ben or Jo are leader types. Your team needs that in the NBA. Not saying Tobias is that either but both finals teams had a dude who would get his teammates into it. Giannis was about to throw hands and while he choked lol CP3 is that dude too. Having the locker room together is important in the NBA. Jo and Ben aren't that guy and Tobias keeps the team together. Its not the end all be all and not enough of a reason to no trade Tobias if a good deal for an **** but one who is better comes along but it is very important in the NBA to have those dudes
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#434 » by Tomjas » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:45 am

stormi wrote:I don't think anyone is realistically saying Tobias is worth Sexton. It's deflection of the actual point that Tobias Harris is a statistical anchor on playoff success while also being a poor fit alongside Joel Embiid.

I'd move Tobias for a number of different packages. There are teams out there like Utah and Memphis that seem to be in search of more concentrated scoring. In the process they've made Kyle Anderson & Ingles/Bogdanovic available for trade. The Jazz were primed to max Harris the summer we did, before we chose him over Butler.

Anderson + Melton + Beverley for Harris? Sure.

Ingles + Bogdanovic for Harris? Sure. Throw in Shake? No problem.


The Utah package is a no brainer for me as it gives us shooting, iq, cap space next season AND flexibility when dealing with Ben

Let’s say that the relationship is completely broken

Well that Utah trade suddenly creates other options for a Simmons trade

For example, to the Spurs for Murray, Thad Young and picks

Biggest knock on Murray is his 3pt% but that’s irrelevant when we have Green, Seth, Kork, Ingles, Bogi and even Joel bombing away

His defence will be sorely needed while Thad is a good 4 plus another expiring to open up more cap space
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#435 » by DCasey91 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:06 am

Going around in circles but Embiid/CJ/Ben is very close to the mark imo.

Murray is a firm no. He’s basically Richardson.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#436 » by sixers4real » Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:59 am

I’d trade Harris for CJ.

Embiid / Drummond / Bassey
Simmons / Niang / Reed
Green / Thybulle / Korkmaz
McCollum / Curry / Joe
Maxey / Milton / Springer
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#437 » by Arsenal » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:07 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Guess who's at the very bottom of the list? Hint... it's NOT Ben Simmons...
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#438 » by Negrodamus » Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:11 pm

John Collins?
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#439 » by 76ciology » Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:51 am

With CJ likely off the table..

Hornets:
Tobias Harris
Paul Reed

Lamelo
Hayward
Oubre
Tobias
Paul Reed

Sixers:
Terry Rozier
PJ Washington
Plumlee

Maxey
Rozier
Ben
PJ Washington
Embiid

Why for the Hornets:
Clears logjam at guard position and also gives them a promising center. Look at how balanced that starting 5 for the Hornets. You get 4 guys who can score with a modern Big who can do the dirty works on defense. Then have Bouknight do damage as your 6th man.

Why for the Sixers:
Issue with Tobi is his lack of reliability to jack up 3s. PJ washington gives you a 3&D PF. While you get higher quality pts generating player in Rozier than Tobi with his reliability to jack up 3s and get you 20pts.

Elephant in the room:
Rozier wants to be paid. Rozier can be what Jrue was for the Bucks, whereas if Rozier proves to be the difference maker for the Sixers he can get paid like Jrue.

At worst, Sixers gets PJ Washington who can be a long term player as a 3&D PF while getting Tobi’s salary off the books. Then sixers can just draft themselves another maxey with a first round pick to replace Rozier.

You also can possibly S&T Rozier and attach him with picks in the offseason for a bigger deal.
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Re: Tobias Harris Trade Thread 

Post#440 » by Tomjas » Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:44 am

Mik317 wrote:two different sports

and neither Ben or Jo are leader types. Your team needs that in the NBA. Not saying Tobias is that either but both finals teams had a dude who would get his teammates into it. Giannis was about to throw hands and while he choked lol CP3 is that dude too. Having the locker room together is important in the NBA. Jo and Ben aren't that guy and Tobias keeps the team together. Its not the end all be all and not enough of a reason to no trade Tobias if a good deal for an **** but one who is better comes along but it is very important in the NBA to have those dudes


Nope

Most of the Bulls didn’t like MJ but they followed him

Being likeable is irrelevant unless you’re doing badly

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