Tobias Harris Trade Thread

[the_process]

As with probably most trades we can make. None of the guys will be better than who we trade....just got to hope they are better fits ala Seth and Danny (although Josh was hot ass this year...so maybe he just sucks)....but we will get back equally flawed guys. Tobias is fine. Scores 20 points consistently and got better defensively (another thing lost in that final game was the work he did on Trae on switches; staying down on fakes for example). BUT he doesn't get to the line, doesn't shoot 3s at a high clip, and has some of the worse vision alive lol. All things this team desperately needs....but also all things every team needs so he is a tough sell. This is why he has been on 80 teams.

BUT as stated there is a human element at play in which he seems to be the locker room guy that prevent Jo from smacking the **** out of people and Ben from melding into the wall...so there is some importance to that.

BUT BUT BUT as stated above that Boston series and the fact that he has his best games without Jo means it is hard to see those two as a good pair either. Jo and Ben to a lesser extent can co exist with a ballhandler...what does Tobias do when we get one? Lost in the Ben hates Jimmy stuff....did Tobias like playing with Jimmy?

IDK. **** sucks but I just want something to happen so I can be mad about it lol.

We know that Jimmy didn’t care for playing with Tobias. But he was third on Jimmy’s **** list after Brett and Ben

[Sportfan73]

Embiid and Simmons coexisting in a half court offense against any decent defense isn't possible.

Simmons is useless off ball in the half court if he isnt screening and rolling and for that to happen Embiid needs to space the floor. Embiid as a floor spacer is a waste of one of the best low post threats in NBA history.

If you look at a heat map of Simmons and Embiids shot chart and favorite spots on the floor you will see right away why the conflict exists.

Both players are centers in the halfcourt. You dont play two centers together in the modern NBA.

You can only get away with playing two centers if youre the bucks and you decide to turn your low post center into a SG on offense. The problem is Giannis is way better than Lopez so the sacrifice is justified.

Asking Embiid to sacrifice for Simmons is something that will never happen since he is way better and he was here first.

Trying to blame their bad fit against real defenses on Tobias or the lack of a ball handler is trying to avoid the hard questions.

A high usage low post big man and a rim running and driving big man will never be a good fit in the modern NBA.

Thats why we need to find a solution to the Embiid and Simmons problem before moving on to trading other productive players.

Completely disagree with this. We need to transition to less Biid post ups as he gets older and just in general

[yuuby]

Completely disagree with this. We need to transition to less Biid post ups as he gets older and just in general

Hey Embiid you just had your most efficient and individually successful season ever this season and came in 2nd in MVP voting. We just signed you to a 4 year 200 million supermax this offseason which will keep you here until your are 33 years old in 2027.

But you know what we want you to completely change your game. No more 35%+ usage on offense. Less post ups and midrange isos which are your best skills on offense and what makes you the greatest low post threat since Shaq.

We need you to sacrifice your game and your numbers for the betterment of Ben Simmons.

Yes I'm sure that conversation will go over well.

You have to think from Embiids perspective. If he is getting paid and getting accolades based on his current style and is putting up historic numbers why would he ever be amenable to change as long as he can keep his production up?

Players dont think about sacrificing for longevity when they are in their prime and putting up numbers and are getting paid max money.

[Sportfan73]

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Completely disagree with this. We need to transition to less Biid post ups as he gets older and just in general

Hey Embiid you just had your most efficient and individually successful season ever this season and came in 2nd in MVP voting. We just signed you to a 4 year 200 million supermax this offseason which will keep you here until your are 33 years old in 2027.

But you know what we want you to completely change your game. No more 35%+ usage on offense. Less post ups and midrange isos which are your best skills on offense and what makes you the greatest low post threat since Shaq.

We need you to sacrifice your game and your numbers for the betterment of Ben Simmons.

Yes I'm sure that conversation will go over well.

You have to think from Embiids perspective. If he is getting paid and getting accolades based on his current style and is putting up historic numbers why would he ever be amenable to change as long as he can keep his production up?

Players dont think about sacrificing for longevity when they are in their prime and putting up numbers and are getting paid max money.

Oh right those numbers that he put up playing none other than Ben. With doc not staggering because Dwight Howard. And the bench being terrible because they are led by Tobias.

[yuuby]

Completely disagree with this. We need to transition to less Biid post ups as he gets older and just in general

Hey Embiid you just had your most efficient and individually successful season ever this season and came in 2nd in MVP voting. We just signed you to a 4 year 200 million supermax this offseason which will keep you here until your are 33 years old in 2027.

But you know what we want you to completely change your game. No more 35%+ usage on offense. Less post ups and midrange isos which are your best skills on offense and what makes you the greatest low post threat since Shaq.

We need you to sacrifice your game and your numbers for the betterment of Ben Simmons.

Yes I'm sure that conversation will go over well.

You have to think from Embiids perspective. If he is getting paid and getting accolades based on his current style and is putting up historic numbers why would he ever be amenable to change as long as he can keep his production up?

Players dont think about sacrificing for longevity when they are in their prime and putting up numbers and are getting paid max money.

Oh right those numbers that he put up playing none other than Ben. With doc not staggering because Dwight Howard. And the bench being terrible because they are led by Tobias.

You are the one who suggested Embiid should move away from post ups in general. He just finished 2nd in MVP voting by running the most post ups in the league (the MVP winner ran the 2nd most) and most of his elite face up package is set up from the low post on the left block.

I replied why I dont think Embiid would be amenable to sacrificing post ups in the future and your 2nd reply addressed none of that and only brought up stuff from the past season where we let Embiid be Embiid and built a team around his elite post up skills.


Again tell me what role Simmons plays in a post up heavy, low block isolation heavy midrange offense that runs through Embiid?

Why would Embiid ever be amenable to sacrifing his game by spacing the floor for Simmons?

[Mik317]

the narrative that Embiid is uncoachable and unwilling to change is fascinating to me. Like he has mentioned multiple times that he knows he cannot post up all day and has adjusted his game towards that already.... I mean the fact that the team has almost done everything in their power to cater to Ben and Biid only just recently "threw shade" openly says he seems like he is pretty fine with giving up some responsibility. Again...it wasn't an issue with Jimmy.

This is a weird ass hell narrative to bring up. Stick to worrying about Josh Harris' pockets.

[76ciology]

[yuuby]

Embiid ranks in NBA post ups:

16-17: 1st
17-18: 2nd
18-19: 2nd
19-20: 1st
20-21: 1st

How has his game changed from less post ups?

Why would you want him to operate out of the post less when he is the most efficient his usage post up player since Shaq?

Why would you want him post up less when his post game packaged with his iso face up game from the post and low left block is what made him an MVP candidate?

Why sacrifice all that to make the 30-40th best player in the NBA who cant shoot feel better?

Embiid and Simmons is obviously a bad fit if you take your blinders off against any real defense.

Tobias Harris is overpaid (but even that is exaggerated given the production he just gave you this season) but productive and fits on almost any team.

Why are we trading a player with not much trade value who fits fine on a normal team in order to keep building around two players whose games dont fit at all.

That is the crux of my argument. Solve the Embiid and Simmons problem first then move on to the other things later.

[51X3RF4N]

Solve the Embiid and Simmons problem first then move on to the other things later.

Is your entire argument essentially that we shouldn't trade Tobias if we don't trade Ben first?






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[76ciology]

Personally, I think we hope for a miracle first and fix this without trading Embiid.

If we can get 2 of Fox, SGA, Lavine or Sexton. And pair that duo with Embiid, I think we’d be very competitive with the best teams on offense.

If we can’t achieve that, then that’s the time we have to explore hard in trading Embiid and build the team that the trend is in favor with.

I mean.. if you can only get Brogdon and CJ for Ben and Tobi. I dont want to be locked up with Biid, Brogdon and CJ as my core guys. It’s a perpetual 2nd round team considering everything.

But then we shouldnt view changes that quick like “just a snap of a finger” and everything fixes itself. Maybe we go into a transition period we’re we pump the value of our assets (i.e pump Ben’s value or pump Anthony Edwards value) then these assets becomes transitionary and will eventually be shipped off to guys who can carry the offense of our team.

Whether you want to trade Tobi or not trade Tobi, i think we all can agree that we dont want mediocrity and we all just want to win a championship.

It’s just we have a different view on how to reach that destination.

And its good, atleast that means we have multiple ways to reach that destination. Rather than have all our chips be in one basket and just hope everything works out like hoping for Ben to be the next LeBron or Dame to be available.

I think right now, I’d say I’m more optimistic than the days after the lose to the Hawks. I think there are feasible ways to fix this team.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Tobias is supposed to be all-star, supposed to be a max player and supposed to be a scorer and he ain't even great at it.


Embiid leads the league in post ups yet you wanna keep a poor man's Melo in Tobias who operates in the same areas as Embiid to be totally effective . At least Simmons compliments Embiid with his low usage shooting his elite passing , defense and fast break ability.

Tobias for a fringe to all-star level guard scorer is the correct move.

Simmons traded for someone who's not a proven all-star is going in the wrong direction.

Tobias doesn't impact your franchise. He's a role player .

[yuuby]

Solve the Embiid and Simmons problem first then move on to the other things later.

Is your entire argument essentially that we shouldn't trade Tobias if we don't trade Ben first?

Yes you need to split up Embiid and Simmons this offseason before trading Harris unless you get a unrealistically good offer for Tobias.

I would trade Tobias for CJ McCollum for example which is unrealistic to happen but would never trade him for Barnes (20 mil per year for a below league average player) and Hield (24+ mil per year for a player who might not be better than seth curry).

Tobias just had a great regular season just look at any of the advanced stats. His value this season was in the 25-30 mil per year range. He is still overpaid but not close to as overpaid as this forum thinks he is.

In fact it was a disgrace that Simmons made the all star team over him and Tobias was much better than Ben in the portion of the season that Embiid missed.

Simmons is more overpaid than Tobias at the moment.

[76ciology]

Regarding fit. I think Ben and Biid are good fit in most context and bad fit in some context. Like I think they’re in good fit on every circumstances except when Biid is on the bench, Biid is lethargic and on crunch time.

Then I think Tobi is a fit with both or either Biid and Ben in all times except when we need a 2nd scorer or someone to carry the load when Biid is not playing or lethargic.

Then say if Tobi is Kevin Durant or Harden, I think Ben would fit with either of those guys and Biid. Biid is more like a glue guy to a dominant scorer.

Dont worry too much.

Morey knows you need more talent to win with Embiid. He said it himself that its hard to win by building around a big in today’s basketball. And it’s not just word play because he almost traded Ben for Harden.

If I can recall, even Lavine’s name came up in the rumor mill during last offseason.

Morey’s looking to get us a prime scorer to play with Embiid. Morey’s not delusional that he’s going to just surround Embiid with shooters and play inside out basketball to win the championship

Morey and Doc didnt sign up to this team to coach the three stoges and solve this puzzle of making those three work.

Morey is not an “against the grain” guy.

Morey’s gonna follow what trend and data tells him.

[yuuby]

Tobias is supposed to be all-star, supposed to be a max player and supposed to be a scorer and he ain't even great at it.


Embiid leads the league in post ups yet you wanna keep a poor man's Melo in Tobias who operates in the same areas as Embiid to be totally effective . At least Simmons compliments Embiid with his low usage shooting his elite passing , defense and fast break ability.

Tobias for a fringe to all-star level guard scorer is the correct move.

Simmons traded for someone who's not a proven all-star is going in the wrong direction.

Tobias doesn't impact your franchise. He's a role player .

Simmons is a fake all star like Joe Johnson was in the East. He gets voted in because the 76ers are always top 3 in the east come all star time and coaches reward him for a spot even though plenty of players like Middleton and Trae were more deserving. In fact Tobias had a much better argument for the spot as he was better all year and carried the team when Embiid was out.

Ben Simmons would make 0 all star teams in the West and his 3rd team all nba selection was a joke as Middleton had more 3rd place votes but didnt get the spot due to how they count multi position votes.

[51X3RF4N]

Solve the Embiid and Simmons problem first then move on to the other things later.

Is your entire argument essentially that we shouldn't trade Tobias if we don't trade Ben first?

Yes you need to split up Embiid and Simmons this offseason before trading Harris unless you get a unrealistically good offer for Tobias.

I would trade Tobias for CJ McCollum for example which is unrealistic to happen but would never trade him for Barnes (20 mil per year for a below league average player) and Hield (24+ mil per year for a player who might not be better than seth curry).

Tobias just had a great regular season just look at any of the advanced stats. His value this season was in the 25-30 mil per year range. He is still overpaid but not close to as overpaid as this forum thinks he is.

In fact it was a disgrace that Simmons made the all star team over him and Tobias was much better than Ben in the portion of the season that Embiid missed.

Simmons is more overpaid than Tobias at the moment.

Would you move Tobias and Ben together, or within a few months of each other if the result was a lineup consisting of 8 guys who fit with Joel?

Like, as much as I like Seth and what he's brought to the team, he's a 6'2 SG who plays no defense and the team has to put the proper pieces around him in order for him to be viable in today's playoff basketball.

He also just came off a career season, and has a valuable 2 year contract for less than $10M per.

If there is anyone you trade, it's Seth. He will net you the highest value now than he ever could or will going forward.

You need guys who can both create and score, and also hold their own against at least their own position.

Seth can be traded on his own for a true creator at PG, he can be packaged with others to bring back even more value.

I would consider trading Seth, Ben and Tobias all this offseason. Get me 2 perimeter creators who can at least try to guard someone their own size, and give me 2 3&D guys who actually thrive in a catch and shoot role.

Like, I want to see a complete overhaul of the roster that lands all the kinds of players you ideally want to see around a dominant post big man. Give me 1 season of that. Guys who can take the burden off Embiid, space the floor, get him the ball in the post, and help him go to work not just stand there and let him do it all himself.

And then those same guys aren't major defensive liabilities that get targeted by 6'7 Red Velvet when it matter most.

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[yuuby]

Why move one of the best value contracts in the league who was by far the 3rd best player in the ECSF. He got lit up in one game that happens all the time in the NBA.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2021-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-hawks-vs-76ers.html

Seriously look at his stats in that series. He should never be mentioned as to the reason why we lost that series. If Curry was a good defender he would be a max player.

In general though Im open to trade anyone but the first move should be breaking up the Simmons & Embiid pairing.

That is the most urgent thing we need to figure out. Make the rest of the roster moves later.

[youngcrev]

Embiid ranks in NBA post ups:

16-17: 1st
17-18: 2nd
18-19: 2nd
19-20: 1st
20-21: 1st

How has his game changed from less post ups?

Why would you want him to operate out of the post less when he is the most efficient his usage post up player since Shaq?

Why would you want him post up less when his post game packaged with his iso face up game from the post and low left block is what made him an MVP candidate?

Why sacrifice all that to make the 30-40th best player in the NBA who cant shoot feel better?

Embiid and Simmons is obviously a bad fit if you take your blinders off against any real defense.

Tobias Harris is overpaid (but even that is exaggerated given the production he just gave you this season) but productive and fits on almost any team.

Why are we trading a player with not much trade value who fits fine on a normal team in order to keep building around two players whose games dont fit at all.

That is the crux of my argument. Solve the Embiid and Simmons problem first then move on to the other things later.

Figuring out what to do with Simmons in the half court is an issue that exists regardless of the presence of Joel Embiid.

Ben can still push in transition with Jo on the floor. Embiid can put up MVP caliber numbers out of the post with Ben on the floor. They're an elite defensive pairing.

If you had a guard that could carry offense from the perimeter to go with them you'd have a pretty ideal set up.

They've burned through so many assets at this point that it might not be feasible to get that player anymore unfortunately.

[LeonJordanJr24]

All this calling Ben as fake all-star after making it 3 x in the row is ridiculous. Not to mention finishing top 2 in defensive player of the year voting... Yet he's a fake all-star. I got news for ya we ain't win nothing without Ben Simmons on this team. Ben as soon as he step on the court turned us in to a 50 win team.


Tobias doesn't do anything for us. I don't care if he should of been a all-star because he wasn't....


Break apart Ben and Embiid and not getting back Lillard, Beal, Jaylen Brown level player will be a huge mistake and set back.


Tobias gotta go . We have 20 mil in free agent cap space. Unload hill 10 mill in a trade .


Build on Embiid , Simmons and Thybulles elite defense with flat out scorers.

[mjkvol]

Tobias is supposed to be all-star, supposed to be a max player and supposed to be a scorer and he ain't even great at it.


Embiid leads the league in post ups yet you wanna keep a poor man's Melo in Tobias who operates in the same areas as Embiid to be totally effective . At least Simmons compliments Embiid with his low usage shooting his elite passing , defense and fast break ability.

Tobias for a fringe to all-star level guard scorer is the correct move.

Simmons traded for someone who's not a proven all-star is going in the wrong direction.

Tobias doesn't impact your franchise. He's a role player .

This is my view as well. Harris for CJ makes this team instantly better, and solves much of the spacing and style issues with one move. Harris is a middling player who will post nice empty stats, but he isn't a guy you have starting on a team with championship ambitions. He's the equivalent of an innings eating #4 starting pitcher, except he's being paid like an ace.

And I suppose there's also that nagging feeling that Simmons might actually wake up and start to live up to his potential, but I fully admit that is about as unlikely as hitting the lottery, or so it seems. I would still start by unloading the max contract role player whose game is an awful fit with Embiid and go from there.

[Mik317]

just like adding shooters helped open up.

adding a shot creator will also open up things.

Its going to have to come at the expense of someone tho.

Constantly whine about it...but this was the idea behind the Fultz pick...and then the Jimmy trade...but then Elton decided to that getting large was the answer and we used up all remaining assets just trying to get back shooting.

I think lost in all of this is the fact that we were a better team this year. The way it ended has blinded us to that a bit. It has made it feel like the team needs major changes...and thats probably not the case. Again the answer is probably somewhere in the middle, right? That being said tho....Ben or Tobias moving on is the main option we have left. I highly doubt Ben is here come the start of the year tho...heats too hot and I bridges have begun to get burnt...but if by some grace of god...that will mean he slides to the PF...which means Tobias is probably out.

Again...kinda need something to happen asap so we can move on to that part of this in which we talk ourselves into New GuyMcNewerson as the savior already