RealGM

First off, mods I hope you dont mind me creating this thread.

It’s not a thread about Ben
It’s not a discussion about Ben trades

It’s a thread about the 2nd order consequence if we trade Ben for Dame. What happens after the trade?

Will it make us make past the 2nd round now? What else do we need to make the championship with a dame and Biid duo.

What are the pros and cons of this duo? If Dame is bad on defense and Embiid plays like uncle drew on defense, are we hopeless in defending the PnR?

I think if the trade happens, it’s not only a right trade based on need, but it’s also a big step forward.

I do think Embiid has to play with another guy who can take over games. Its because of Embiid’s style and the nature of Embiid’s availability. We had that chance with Harden last offseason, Dame can be that guy.

How good is a Dame-Embiid led team?

Personally I think we’d be right there with the other duos of Jokic-Murray, Mitchell-Gobert and LeBron-AD. That means you’ll definitely be a contender.

We’d be a lot better when Embiid is not playing. Dame is a superstar and has the ability to carry a team.

We’ll be a lot better down the stretch. Not only because of “its dame time” but we have either Embiid and Dame as options down the stretch. With some re-structuring with the rotation and roster, we’d have a couple of reliable go to guy down the stretch.

The fit also looks good. I’d say the pairing could be better than the JJ or Seth pairing with Embiid.

I think we’ll be right there with the healthy Nets and the likely 2021 NBA champs the Bucks.

There are three questions for me..

1.) how do you structure the rest of the team to fit both guys.

Do Tobias has a role or should we find a better fit? I think we can pair Tobi+Dame with the second unit then Seth+Biid with the second unit.

Does Dame need to play with another guard? People dont want him to play with CJ. But I find that CJ is actually a good fit with Dame at the backcourt because he can be a secondary playmaker and also play off the ball.

2.) Is Dame’s age and Embiid’s health too much of a risk? It kinds of reminds me of LeBron’s age and AD’s health.

3.) most important question of all, would you do the Ben + picks (im guessing all possible first rounders we can trade) for Dame?

Lillard has been overrated and his contract looks awful given his age and size. He is very one dimensional due to his size and is 31, a bad age for a diminutive pg that is getting 45 M per year.

Even if we could trade Simmons+assets for Lillard i dont think i would do it. I would prefer to wait for a better trade.

76ciology wrote:It’s not a discussion about Ben trades
...
3.) most important question of all, would you do the Ben + picks (im guessing all possible first rounders we can trade) for Dame?

Uhhh

JK

I'd do the trade as long as we didn't have to empty the cupboard. Trading all our picks plus potentially Maxey and Thybulle leaves no assets to build around Lillard and Embiid. I know it's fashionable to say "just do the deal and figure out the details later", but the reality is that the Sixers would have nothing left to build with, and you have a small, aging PG and a center with an injury history.

The more I think about it, the better it sounds to keep Simmons unless we're overwhelmed by an offer, and move Harris for a shot creator that better fits the roster. It's probably moot at this point, as the Simmons bridges appear to have been permanently burned.

Sixerscan wrote:

76ciology wrote:It’s not a discussion about Ben trades
...
3.) most important question of all, would you do the Ben + picks (im guessing all possible first rounders we can trade) for Dame?

Uhhh

JK

Hahaha no no no sorry..

i mean.. its not a discussion of possible packages for Ben. I want a discussion specifically focusing on what will our team look like after we trade for Dame.

Because honestly, im not too familiar on Dame and the Blazers. I do think their squad looks good on paper but I dont know why they’ve been underachieving. And it makes me uncomfortable about Dame.

Ideally you would get a Bogdan-type 2 guard to play with Lillard so he could play off the ball at times. Not sure how they would get that. If you want to trade Harris fine but then you have a similar issue at the 4. Basically Morey would have to figure out the 5th starter spot one way or the other.

Curry's role would likely shrink, become a 6th man. Him and Lillard would get lit up on defense by a lot of matchups.

Thybulle would be the biggest beneficiary. As long as Simmons is here he's going to be limited to being a role player but theoretically he could start at the 3 with Lillard.

I'd be more ok with bringing Dwight back, but Doc has to commit to figuring out some sort of alternative lineup with BBall or otherwise for when Dwight has a matchup issue. Better yet they probably just shouldn't bring him back because I doubt Doc would do that.

McGrady was 25 when Morey traded for him. Harden was 24 when Morey traded for him. The mark of a GM in his prime making phenomenal longterm franchise player additions.

Westbrook was 31 when Morey traded for him. Lillard is currently 31. The mark of GM past his prime throwing desperation heaves and not quite remembering how to do it the right way.

Kobblehead wrote:McGrady was 25 when Morey traded for him. Harden was 24 when Morey traded for him. The mark of a GM in his prime making phenomenal longterm franchise player additions.

Westbrook was 31 when Morey traded for him. Lillard is currently 31. The mark of GM past his prime throwing desperation heaves and not quite remembering how to do it the right way.

You mean you’re not OK with trading for Dame and Morey maybe past his prime?

Because the only way you can get Harden at 24 type deals with Ben is to trade Ben and like 2-3 1st round picks for Cade Cunningham or jalen Green

First of all. Embiid is a better player than Dame. Dame is more clutch though. That’s the key. Embiid can take us or keep us in any game himself with scrubs up to the last 5-6 min of any game. Dame can close out the game.

There is really no other thoughts.

Dame can coast for the first 3 quarters. This conserves some energy for him.

As for lineup. We can actually play thybulle more to offset dame defensive liability.

Curry moves to the bench.

As for rotation.

I’d play Embiid the first 9 minutes. Play dame entire quarter. I’m gonna to assume maxey or Milton or both will be traded.

76ciology wrote:

Sixerscan wrote:

76ciology wrote:It’s not a discussion about Ben trades
...
3.) most important question of all, would you do the Ben + picks (im guessing all possible first rounders we can trade) for Dame?

Uhhh

JK

Hahaha no no no sorry..

i mean.. its not a discussion of possible packages for Ben. I want a discussion specifically focusing on what will our team look like after we trade for Dame.

Because honestly, im not too familiar on Dame and the Blazers. I do think their squad looks good on paper but I dont know why they’ve been underachieving. And it makes me uncomfortable about Dame.

I'm not sure if they underachieved, the West is just really good. The reason why they aren't a top team out there is because their defense is awful, they were 2nd in offense and 29th in defense. They basically asked Covington to cover for everyone, like he was on Jokic at the end of that Nuggets series.

Lillard can give you a top flight offense more or less on his own but you need to build a great defense around him.

76ciology wrote:

Kobblehead wrote:McGrady was 25 when Morey traded for him. Harden was 24 when Morey traded for him. The mark of a GM in his prime making phenomenal longterm franchise player additions.

Westbrook was 31 when Morey traded for him. Lillard is currently 31. The mark of GM past his prime throwing desperation heaves and not quite remembering how to do it the right way.

You mean you’re not OK with trading for Dame and Morey maybe past his prime?

Because the only way you can get Harden at 24 type deals with Ben is to trade Ben and like 2-3 1st round picks for Cade Cunningham or jalen Green

I wouldn't do it. Next year will be fun, but what are we supposed to do for the rest of the decade? Sixers basketball would be in the pits by 2025.

Mitchell, Fox, Ingram are the prime-Daryl acquisition targets. We'll see if the old man still has some left in the tank and can pull one of these off.

If we want to sustain a team here that can make the playoffs and contend on the regular, then you don't do the Lillard deal. We would be swinging for the fences right now and then this team would be terrible by the time 2025 rolled around as Kobble pointed out. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't do the deal and don't want to see a Lillard/Embiid pairing because I definitely would be intrigued by that.

Now, in regards to Morey...He got extremely lucky with the Harden trade when he brought him to Houston. Harden was an ascending player, but nobody knew he would explode the way he did once he left OKC. I mean, he was on his way, but he went from good scoring guard to superstar offensive machine beast in Houston. I've always felt like Morey would like to hit on another "James Harden" (who wouldn't)? Thing is, WHO is that player? How can we obtain them? The names mentioned aren't exactly available, but they could be for the right price.

Trading for Lillard is only a wise move IF we don't use all of our assets to do so. If Portland is asking for Maxey, Thybulle, Simmons, and a ton of FRDP's then it's an easy NO as it should be. I'm all for trading for Lillard as long as we don't totally mortgage the future to do so. That seems almost impossible though. I just don't want to sit through another five years of perpetual losing. I think we more importantly need a player that can grow...But also take over once Embiid starts to age a bit. Lillard doesn't do that. In fact, he's older than Embiid.

As for the pairing of Lillard/Embiid.....It puts us right in the thick of things for sure. We're easily contenders for the next 2-3 years.
We'd have to fill out the roster with vet min guys and a few ring chasers. I'm not gonna speculate on what we'd give up, but I damn sure don't want to part with Maxey or Thybulle. IF we could somehow pull it off without giving up either of them, then things would look a little more interesting.

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:Now, in regards to Morey...He got extremely lucky with the Harden trade when he brought him to Houston. Harden was an ascending player, but nobody knew he would explode the way he did once he left OKC. I mean, he was on his way, but he went from good scoring guard to superstar offensive machine beast in Houston. I've always felt like Morey would like to hit on another "James Harden" (who wouldn't)? Thing is, WHO is that player? How can we obtain them? The names mentioned aren't exactly available, but they could be for the right price.

The Harden situation opened up because he rejected a non-max offer. A player in a similar situation right now is Zach Lavine. He's eligible for a max extension and the Bulls would have to renounce all their free agents (including Lauri Markkanen) in order to extend him right away. Not quite on Harden's level, but a pretty good offensive approximation and he's only 26 so he'd be a longterm franchise player for us.

In terms of the guy who hasn't arrived yet but is due to breakout into a monster, that man is Nickell Alexander-Walker. He's the next Manu Ginoboli in terms of being guy who scores off the dribble, passes, shoots, and defends at an elite level. He's in a precarious situation in New Orleans with a ton of guys in the mix so they don't even know what they have with him. He's ripe for the plucking. If I was GM, I'd make it happen. Bonus, he's Shai's cousin so a possible family reunion down the line? Championships.

If we had Dame and Embiid and had to trade everything I think we'd still be ok. I think finally we'd be a team where the older vets will sign on to ring chase for low ball money. It's not a long term solution but we shouldn't have trouble adding the additional pieces that we'd need

Idk lol

That’s really the answer for me.

Dame is great and exactly what we need. But it would deplete our asset pool big time. But teams just sign random dudes every year tho. But we tend to struggle at that. The Suns and Bucks have dudes… but a lot of those dudes were drafted or signed to bigger contracts than we can offer outside of Tucker and Craig…we aren’t the Nets or Lakers.

Then there is the health aspect. Dame has been relatively an iron man but Father Time is no bitch man.

Then there is the fact that while Ben is annoying as **** and stagnated offensively…. He still helps the team in the little ways that matter.

So yeah idk lol

My dream is getting a younger guy who if things fall apart can be the next centerpiece in what feels like the inevitable Embiid trade….but then I’d just want to tear everything down anyway so who cares

This **** sucks lol

FYI if you listen to 97.5 the night host Devon Givens is cousins with Mikal Bridges, he confirmed the source saying Philly is his top choice if he’s traded

It's our best shot at a championship over the next 3-4 years. We can compete with anyone in the West and an injury away from being able to beat Brooklyn.

BNelley24 wrote:FYI if you listen to 97.5 the night host Devon Givens is cousins with Mikal Bridges, he confirmed the source saying Philly is his top choice if he’s traded

That's surprising. The Blazers must have told him they won't trade him in conference. I would assume he'd be all about the Lakers and Warriors if he had his choice.

Im surprised with the responses so far after we managed to have 32 pages on the Ben Simmons trade thread with nobody really talking about not wanting to trade for Dame.

Based on 538 Melo projection, Ben will be more valuable than Dame by year 2023 onwards.

kuclas wrote:First of all. Embiid is a better player than Dame. Dame is more clutch though. That’s the key. Embiid can take us or keep us in any game himself with scrubs up to the last 5-6 min of any game. Dame can close out the game.

There is really no other thoughts.

Dame can coast for the first 3 quarters. This conserves some energy for him.

As for lineup. We can actually play thybulle more to offset dame defensive liability.

Curry moves to the bench.

As for rotation.

I’d play Embiid the first 9 minutes. Play dame entire quarter. I’m gonna to assume maxey or Milton or both will be traded.

Very doubtful. Dame is a top 5 offensive engine in the league.

Embiid just got outplayed in a playoff series by a guard way worse than Dame in Trae.