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Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3

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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1901 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:29 am

Core priorities:

1st: Embiid + Lillard (Going all in for the chip, don’t be gun shy people)

2nd: Embiid + Ingram + Ben (Yes I’d trade Thybulle and a 1st and Harris if the Pels say no cool. That trio is perfect age wise and cold as hell imo).

3rd: Embiid + CJ + Ben (it’s close bananas).

4th Embiid + Sexton + Ben (With Love then eventually go for Ingram again with Sexton + :))

Others: Same core run it back Embiid/Ben/Harris or Fox/Embiid/Harris. The one with Fox is flawed as heck to me. Less defense, bad shooter, not durable and we still have Harris. Not a great chess move as the pieces don’t go together on attack. If Barnes comes for Harris it’s still a problem because then it’s too much responsibility on Barnes to be the gunner. So a Harris like result will occur. Fit Love and Sexton are just better outlets and the defensive impact from both setups are a wash.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1902 » by FlyingArrow » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:31 am

Kobblehead wrote:I'm not so sure the Kings would want more than Simmons. With all their investments in G, they may view Fox as a surplus and ultimately expendable asset to get a F-sized player like Simmons that would provide better lineup balance.


Wasn't Morey asking for an all star plus like 4 picks? Obviously that's not happening, but I have a hard time seeing him get to the point of a non All Star and we give up more.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1903 » by Black Mage » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:55 am

And here we go again arguing the same things over Fox or Dame or Ingram or... Folks, we all know how we each feel, there haven't been any games played for those reasons to change. Just time to wait, post any rumors, but let's just stop re-arguing this same s***.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1904 » by stormi » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:13 am

Stop foruming on forum
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1905 » by FlyingArrow » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:32 am

Black Mage wrote:And here we go again arguing the same things over Fox or Dame or Ingram or... Folks, we all know how we each feel, there haven't been any games played for those reasons to change. Just time to wait, post any rumors, but let's just stop re-arguing this same s***.

I don't know how we each feel. I haven't been keeping track.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1906 » by eyeatoma » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:11 am

FlyingArrow wrote:
Black Mage wrote:And here we go again arguing the same things over Fox or Dame or Ingram or... Folks, we all know how we each feel, there haven't been any games played for those reasons to change. Just time to wait, post any rumors, but let's just stop re-arguing this same s***.

I don't know how we each feel. I haven't been keeping track.



There are 96 pages you can go through lol. Also part 1 and 2.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1907 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:31 am

Aizen is a better villain than Madara. Pain though tops both.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1908 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:56 am

Black Mage wrote:And here we go again arguing the same things over Fox or Dame or Ingram or... Folks, we all know how we each feel, there haven't been any games played for those reasons to change. Just time to wait, post any rumors, but let's just stop re-arguing this same s***.


Agree but can we discuss about Sexton? Because I do think he’s undervalued. And he’s a player we can easily get with a much valued first for Ben.

(both frequencies and possessions almost the same)

Fox
Iso: .84ppp
PnR: .94ppp
Per 36: 25.8ppg

Sexton
ISO: .81ppp
PnR: .91ppp
Per 36: 24.9ppg

What you’re paying for Fox is the slight upgrade on scoring and for his defense. But that value to pay for the difference IMO is quite big. Whereas Kings sees Fox as a franchise player while Cavs is looking to dump Sexton.

Then if you look at both team’s 1st round pick and make-up, I do think Cavs’s 1st rounder has a lot more value than the Kings’.

So for me, I will take Sexton and Cavs pick over Fox and Kings pick. If we can also get Nance in the process, then it’s a slamdunk. Where it would also fill the hole of the big defensive wing that Ben fills for our team.

If we can get Sexton alone or sexton and picks with giving much less (i.e Tobi and Milton), then I’d also like to explore those deals

Im not saying Sexton is the next James Harden. But if you look at Harden’s situation and Sexton’s, there are some similarities. Where I think Sexton is undervalued, specially given our situation where we are in a drought in scoring from a perimeter player.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1909 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:10 am

Not to get derailed.

But I also find that there’s a high chance for a maxey, sexton, fox type player in every mid teens in every draft (possibly tre mann, josh christopher, hyland or cam thomas in the 2021 NBA draft). I dont think you should overpay for those type of players.

And if you look at our team, we maybe just need one more kind of player to be in “win now” mode.

Maxey
Sexton
Tobi
Ben
Biid

That’s a championship caliber starting unit IMO. That’s a better starting unit than the 2019 squad we had that almost won it.

While the guys you should overpay are the guys who are the really special ones like Harden and Dame.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1910 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:15 am

Sexton is a better shooter than both Fox and Maxey.

Your right he’s undervalued but has a limit same with the other two.

He’s a good buy at low cost but the max contract thing puts a spanner in the works if he isn’t traded again.

Maxey and Sexton together doesn’t work either. It’s a Blazers 2.0 overlap with zero complementary components.

Look I don’t rate Sexton but if forced to choose between the three it’s Sexton. Fox can’t shoot and isn’t durable, Maxey the timeline is off, Sexton is underepped

Once again:

Number One. Embiid

Must work everything around that
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1911 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:17 am

76ciology wrote:Not to get derailed.

But I also find that there’s a high chance for a maxey, sexton, fox type player in every mid teens in every draft (possibly tre mann, josh christopher, hyland or cam thomas in the 2021 NBA draft). I dont think you should overpay for those type of players.

And if you look at our team, we maybe just need one more kind of player to be in “win now” mode.

Maxey
Sexton
Tobi
Ben
Biid

That’s a championship caliber starting unit IMO. That’s a better starting unit than the 2019 squad we had that almost won it.

While the guys you should overpay are the guys who are the really special ones like Harden and Dame.


No it’s not.

I’ll always say Embiid + Butler trumps any non superstar version.

Butler eats Maxey and Sexton cmon now lol.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1912 » by Tomjas » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:28 am

Love is unplayable unless he gets into shape and he couldn’t be bothered doing it for the Olympics

Sexton deal should be a hard no if he’s attached
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1913 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:03 am

Tomjas wrote:Love is unplayable unless he gets into shape and he couldn’t be bothered doing it for the Olympics

Sexton deal should be a hard no if he’s attached


Love’s salary is an expiring after this upcoming season.

If I can get a Cavs pick in 2022 and if this is a real issue, then I’d be willing to unload a 2022 1st to the Okc just for them to absorb love’s contract.

We then max Sexton out. Have a high draft pick in 2022.

By the time that high draft pick wants a big contracy, Tobi’s salary would be expiring by then.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1914 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:08 am

DCasey91 wrote:
76ciology wrote:Not to get derailed.

But I also find that there’s a high chance for a maxey, sexton, fox type player in every mid teens in every draft (possibly tre mann, josh christopher, hyland or cam thomas in the 2021 NBA draft). I dont think you should overpay for those type of players.

And if you look at our team, we maybe just need one more kind of player to be in “win now” mode.

Maxey
Sexton
Tobi
Ben
Biid

That’s a championship caliber starting unit IMO. That’s a better starting unit than the 2019 squad we had that almost won it.

While the guys you should overpay are the guys who are the really special ones like Harden and Dame.


No it’s not.

I’ll always say Embiid + Butler trumps any non superstar version.

Butler eats Maxey and Sexton cmon now lol.


I respect your opinion. But I dont agree.

Personally I think Jimmy is a good player but he’s an overrated offensive player.

He’s neither a good ISO or PnR player nor can he space the floor. Again, i think he’s a good player and probably the smartest player ive seen that wore a sixers uniform in the last 2 decades.

I do think Sexton can replace Jimmy’s production while Maxey can possibly a better offensive player than JJ.

I also dont think Maxey and Sexton will be an issue. While the problem with the Blazers is not the offense, they actually had one of the best offense in the league. Last time i checked the numbers, they were right there with the Nets on offense!

The problem with the Blazers is they lack a reliable non-perimeter scorer (thus the addition of Melo, and we have Embiid for this) and that their defense is not good enough to compensate any flaws on their team (thus overpaying for Roco).

Blazers is trying to be the Warriors but Steph and Klay are just ATG shooters in terms of consistency and less variance.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1915 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:13 am

You can’t have a heavy perimeter offensive team.

Like if you look at the Suns. They were leading the Bucks. But when CP3 broke down, they dont have a “rock” to relied upon.

Like in the old spurs squad, when their perimeter offense or drive and draw offense stalled. They can just dump the ball to Duncan. Suns nor the Blazers dont have that.

This is why Blazers invested on Melo.

To be a great offensive team in the playoffs you need to have both great 2 man game and great ISO game.

If we have Sexton, we can run a dribble drive offense with Maxey and Sexton like Tony Parker and Manu. Then if the defense can deny this, we can dump the ball to Embiid like how Spurs relied on TD.

You also can have a good balance between perimeter generated and interior generated offense.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1916 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:29 am

76ciology look at the size and gamestyle of both Maxey and Sexton. It’s not overload more like big time overlap

Of course the Blazers offense was good they had CJ and Lillard together. And of course the defense sucked because they had CJ and Lillard together.

You want a higher quality example? George and Kawhi.

If both Maxey and Sexton play backcourt along with Harris we would be torn to shreds on the outside.

We’d have to nickname Ben the fireman with all the spotfires that would be breaking out lol.

Two lefts don’t make a right sort of deal.

Also you can have a heavy perimeter centric team or an interior one or both. At the end of the day it’s basketball not reinventing the wheel.

What I’m saying is Sexton pairs much better with a Klay type the same with Maxey.

Having two mini scorers one with less skill capabilities isnt a good recipe imo.

For me personally I can afford to have one sub average defender and only one and that player has to score or offense at minimum CJ level. Harris no thanks your not in my starting five ever.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1917 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:31 am

76ciology wrote:You can’t have a heavy perimeter offensive team.

Like if you look at the Suns. They were leading the Bucks. But when CP3 broke down, they dont have a “rock” to relied upon.

Like in the old spurs squad, when their perimeter offense or drive and draw offense stalled. They can just dump the ball to Duncan. Suns nor the Blazers dont have that.

This is why Blazers invested on Melo.

To be a great offensive team in the playoffs you need to have both great 2 man game and great ISO game.

If we have Sexton, we can run a dribble drive offense with Maxey and Sexton like Tony Parker and Manu. Then if the defense can deny this, we can dump the ball to Embiid like how Spurs relied on TD.

You also can have a good balance between perimeter generated and interior generated offense.


:banghead: No you need size with skill and quality.

It’s pretty old now

Top ten in both offense/defense. Traditional nothing fancy just build a well oiled unit that isn’t flawed.

Seriously comparing Tony Parker and Manu to Sexton and Maxey, really?

Embiid is more or less bad version of Shaq without a backcourt or a high level wing scorer lol.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1918 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:41 am

If you really want that setup it should be this:

Sexton
Maxey
Green
Simmons
Embiid

2x Frontcourt players only, one that can switch wherever need be (can and has guarded 1-4) 3 & D wing and 2x backcourt ballhandlers/scorers.

Easy then. There’s 60 shots between the trio, the other two does the dirty work on defense.

Love fit works with Embiid not Embiid + Ben, that’s three big men where I would rather have a 3+D wing in all cases.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1919 » by ConstableChaos » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:24 am

if youre winning a title sexton is a 6th man
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1920 » by 76ciology » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:39 am

ConstableChaos wrote:if youre winning a title sexton is a 6th man


Sure no problem with that. I’ll start green and end games with Sexton. Kind of like Manu-Harden role
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