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Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3

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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1941 » by the_process » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:14 pm

Mik317 wrote:Tobias won us a game in the playoffs and up until those last few games he was good. Those last few games tho lol. If Ben didn't **** the bed as hard...people would be on him a lot harder. He missed point blank layups like multiple times...and while Ben didn't score in the 4th...Tobias had a 4 point GAME. Can't do that and be the highest paid guy.

Tobias' issue is that he likes to operate not only in the same space as Jo...but the same way...and because he doesn't get to the line...thats not exactly viable. Jo's slow moving face up jumpers work in part because he's huge, and will get to the line. Tobias its a made shot or a long wasted possesion. Also as much as Jo panic passes....he at least makes the pass..Tobias has the woat vision lol.

Its why Tobias tends to have his best games without Jo...because they take up the same space...so yeah even with a Ben trade...Tobi/Jo isn't the greatest duo as one of them need to space out their games more. Tobias simply needs to become a more willing 3pt shooter ala Middleton who also was a mid range man of action..part of the Bucks winning it was him being willing and able to just take and make big 3s (and Jrue too) which allowed Giannis to roam and wreck havoc

Basically **** need to get out of their comfort zones goddam it


Problem is Tobias needs to dribble to get in rhythm for his shot, he's not a natural catch and shoot guy.

Morey obviously cannot upgrade him or it would've been done already. It could be that every other team has Tobias as negative value in which case they're stuck.

I think it bears repeating that if they cannot make any meaningful upgrades then they should strive to get younger with more future flexibility. They aren't winning as is. One step back for two steps forward might be the only avenue available, regardless of how distasteful it is to management.
It is highly unlikely that the Sixers will agree with your Ben Simmons evaluation for the purposes of a trade.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1942 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:31 pm

thenbaman wrote:Must have watched a different tobias this past season because he played great all year.


A game against the Hawks you had to file a missing persons report you couldn’t even see him on the floor.

Harris sucks for this team no doubt about it. He blew a layup too let’s not forget that fact.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1943 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:36 pm

VeritasTri wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:If you really want that setup it should be this:

Sexton
Maxey
Green
Simmons
Embiid

2x Frontcourt players only, one that can switch wherever need be (can and has guarded 1-4) 3 & D wing and 2x backcourt ballhandlers/scorers.

Easy then. There’s 60 shots between the trio, the other two does the dirty work on defense.

Love fit works with Embiid not Embiid + Ben, that’s three big men where I would rather have a 3+D wing in all cases.


Im confused, how do you turn a negative asset in Harris into positive assets?

He is a borderline #3 being paid like a superstar, hes Wiggins tier while being paid even more.

Jesus.


Play Love from the bench easy solution to make this as the starting unit. Kind of like an overpaid Gallo that can rebound more

If it really is Harris, Milton for Sexton and Love then it would be:

Starters:
Sexton
Maxey
Green
Simmons
Embiid

Bench:
Curry
Thybulle
Love
Niang
Drummond

Korkmaz, Reed that’s 12 deep.

That’s not a bad list at all. We actually have a legit bench with added depth.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1944 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:41 pm

Tomjas wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
the_process wrote:
If this is the plan, the best you're getting is probably Sexton and Love from Cleveland for Harris. Although I don't even know if they would be interested in a frontline of Allen-Mobley-Harris. I wouldn't be. But they might just want to move on from Love and be off the hook of paying Sexton?

Sexton and Simmons should compliment each other well. Of course, then there's Embiid...

There's no easy solution to this unless Dame asks out and says "send me to Philly". Barring that, they may have to waste another year. And if that's the case, just go get Haliburton.


Sexton + Love for Tobias is a slam dunk home run hat trick hail mary touchdown for us.

If available, take it and run!


Love is unplayable and owed $60 million over next 2 years

Sexton is a rental

It’s a terrible deal without further moves

When was the last time a true contender hosed $30 million of cap space up against the wall?


In what world is Love unplayable? If he’s fit he’s a much better option from the bench and in the starting unit. Legit stretch 4 that’s a way better rebounder.

It’s a no brainer.

You’re not getting much for Harris. Add in Sexton it’s a good deal. Take it and run
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1945 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:43 pm

That’s full 12 setup its death by rebounds. Last two teams crushed small ball for fun.

Our team will be built on, death, taxes and rebounding teams to death.

Embiid is gonna clank shots, so will Sexton and Maxey

Having Drummond and Love they will just eat all day on the boards lol.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1946 » by stormi » Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:46 pm

Love > Tobias.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1947 » by VeritasTri » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:18 pm

DCasey91 wrote:
VeritasTri wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:If you really want that setup it should be this:

Sexton
Maxey
Green
Simmons
Embiid

2x Frontcourt players only, one that can switch wherever need be (can and has guarded 1-4) 3 & D wing and 2x backcourt ballhandlers/scorers.

Easy then. There’s 60 shots between the trio, the other two does the dirty work on defense.

Love fit works with Embiid not Embiid + Ben, that’s three big men where I would rather have a 3+D wing in all cases.


Im confused, how do you turn a negative asset in Harris into positive assets?

He is a borderline #3 being paid like a superstar, hes Wiggins tier while being paid even more.

Jesus.


Play Love from the bench easy solution to make this as the starting unit. Kind of like an overpaid Gallo that can rebound more

If it really is Harris, Milton for Sexton and Love then it would be:

Starters:
Sexton
Maxey
Green
Simmons
Embiid

Bench:
Curry
Thybulle
Love
Niang
Drummond

Korkmaz, Reed that’s 12 deep.

That’s not a bad list at all. We actually have a legit bench with added depth.


What I am saying is why would anybody trade a positive asset for a negative asset without huge compensation? Harris doesnt fit the cavs timeline or needs. Love isnt a good contract but its shorter than Harris and will still be 10M cheaper. I am sure they would like to dump Loves contract, but not at the cost of Sexton while getting back an even worse contract.

I cant think of a team in the NBA that would be interested in paying Harris 40M in a couple of years.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1948 » by SixthStreet » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:21 pm

I get that Simmons has zero interest in putting on a Sixers jersey again, but he's a really good basketball player flaws included and I'm not in favor of dealing him where we get any less than 90% of his on court value in return in players or projected current value of future picks. I'd sacrifice that final 10% for fit and regain it by building a more Embiid centric roster, but no more. For example, Fox is probably not a better player than Simmons in a vacuum, but he's close and he's a cleaner fit with Joel.

Most of the guys rumored in trade are simply not in Simmons zip code as a player and we should be cautious in a deal. It's my hope that that is the reason no deal has been made.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1949 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:31 pm

VeritasTri wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:
VeritasTri wrote:
Im confused, how do you turn a negative asset in Harris into positive assets?

He is a borderline #3 being paid like a superstar, hes Wiggins tier while being paid even more.

Jesus.


Play Love from the bench easy solution to make this as the starting unit. Kind of like an overpaid Gallo that can rebound more

If it really is Harris, Milton for Sexton and Love then it would be:

Starters:
Sexton
Maxey
Green
Simmons
Embiid

Bench:
Curry
Thybulle
Love
Niang
Drummond

Korkmaz, Reed that’s 12 deep.

That’s not a bad list at all. We actually have a legit bench with added depth.


What I am saying is why would anybody trade a positive asset for a negative asset without huge compensation? Harris doesnt fit the cavs timeline or needs. Love isnt a good contract but its shorter than Harris and will still be 10M cheaper. I am sure they would like to dump Loves contract, but not at the cost of Sexton while getting back an even worse contract.

I cant think of a team in the NBA that would be interested in paying Harris 40M in a couple of years.


Dude I’m not the Cavs front office lol, just going off the suggested trade idea from other posters then further going on that tangent. It’s a new one

That’s kind of the point of a thread.

The reasoning behind it is they don’t want to max Sexton and they can get Harris for a circumspect at best Love (Not durable vs very durable which is actually Harris’s main calling card overall).

Build around Garland and Mobley it’s a nice foundational start. Harris tank commander at SF and Allen can be moved once Mobley fills out. Or he’s a 4. Garland gets way more usage and ball by virtue of Sexton leaving.

Also Sexton and Garland has obvious limitations same with Maxey and Sexton. So surely the Blazers outlook is not the path to follow.

For us? We have way more defensive coverage, with Green, Ben, Thybulle, Embiid. We are fine to take on another small guard.

I guess that’s the logic here.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1950 » by KramerDSP » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:44 pm

I’ve always liked Kevin Love and I was okay with the idea of taking his contract under the theory that playing with Embiid rejuvenates his career the way Blake Griffin’s was with Brooklyn. I think he would love playing with Embiid.

However, it does worry me that he was sent home from the Olympics, although I don’t trust the Colangelos at all and didn’t like how Jerry threw him under the bus.

My biggest worry at this time would be that Love may not be mentally in a place where he could play in a city like Philadelphia.

I feel like if we are taking Love and the baggage that comes with him, there should at least be a Cleveland first in the mix along with Sexton.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1951 » by DCasey91 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:55 pm



If we are getting Lillard can we get his kid too? This year maybe the year or early next. Games that he had over 25mins he averaged 12 ppg and shot well over 45% on threes on high volume. I mean you can see he can garner a bigger role imo. Quietly tuning in on his season coming up. Why they got Powell beats me lol

6:20 :) Maxey and Simons running the bench unit together would be filthy and I’d be all for it.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1952 » by Kobblehead » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:08 pm

stormi wrote:Love > Tobias.

Unforgiveable take. Please tweet Harris an apology.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1953 » by phifans » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:04 am

Kobblehead wrote:
stormi wrote:Love > Tobias.

Unforgiveable take. Please tweet Harris an apology.


They are trying hard to transfer the blame to Tobi from Ben. They just need a guy and Love would even be a better one. It's inevitable that they will do this again to Love next summer after Ben fails another season just like what he has been done.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1954 » by Mik317 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:22 am

Love is super washed.

Tobias for his many flaws can at least stay in front of dudes on defense. Love can't guard a chair right now...and has a very fragile mental state, which I support and empathize with as a person who also struggles with anxiety but this city is the last place for something like that. He's better off ring chasing out west or going back home to Portland,
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1955 » by phifans » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:36 am

You should just try to figure out what their true point is when they prefer Kevin Love over Tobias Harris...
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1956 » by DCasey91 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 am

phifans wrote:You should just try to figure out what their true point is when they prefer Kevin Love over Tobias Harris...


Sexton and one less year on the books.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1957 » by Mik317 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:20 am

I doubt they'd move Sexton just to get off of Love's contract...and not for Tobias' contract.

Also Love hates Sexton apparently lol..

don't see that being a viable move for the Cavs. If they move off of Sexton, it will be for picks IMO and they'd just buy out Love.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1958 » by HotelVitale » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:33 am

VeritasTri wrote: I cant think of a team in the NBA that would be interested in paying Harris 40M in a couple of years.


Tired of saying this, but yes many teams would be happy to take on Harris' deal. Not a defense of Tobias or anything but this is just plain, mundane facts that we all should know enough about the NBA to see.

A few non-all-star top-50ish vets are on better deals than Tobias--McCollum, Lavine (for one more year), maybe Jerami Grant--but those guys have significant trade value and you aren't going to get them for just expirings (or anything close to that). Tobias making a little more money than them just means that he's not quite as good of an asset--but he's not remotely close to an untradeable albatross. There are really no other options for a team who wants to acquire a top-50 player: you can pay an arm and a leg in a trade for the handful of good deals (or guys still on rookie deals) who are top 50, or you can pay a little more $ than is ideal.

The Hornets happily paid an aging, constantly broken Gordon Hayward $30m a season last year, Mike Conley just finished up a full vet max deal that teams were fighting over to pay him in the trade market, Westbrook just got traded for expiring vets who are very playable despite having 2/92 left on his deal. We don't need to pretend like we don't see these contracts being valued and moved all the time just because we're upset Tobias isn't a real superstar.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1959 » by phifans » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:55 am

HotelVitale wrote:
VeritasTri wrote: I cant think of a team in the NBA that would be interested in paying Harris 40M in a couple of years.


Tired of saying this, but yes many teams would be happy to take on Harris' deal. Not a defense of Tobias or anything but this is just plain, mundane facts that we all should know enough about the NBA to see.

A few non-all-star top-50ish vets are on better deals than Tobias--McCollum, Lavine (for one more year), maybe Jerami Grant--but those guys have significant trade value and you aren't going to get them for just expirings (or anything close to that). Tobias making a little more money than them just means that he's not quite as good of an asset--but he's not remotely close to an untradeable albatross. There are really no other options for a team who wants to acquire a top-50 player: you can pay an arm and a leg in a trade for the handful of good deals (or guys still on rookie deals) who are top 50, or you can pay a little more $ than is ideal.

The Hornets happily paid an aging, constantly broken Gordon Hayward $30m a season last year, Mike Conley just finished up a full vet max deal that teams were fighting over to pay him in the trade market, Westbrook just got traded for expiring vets who are very playable despite having 2/92 left on his deal. We don't need to pretend like we don't see these contracts being valued and moved all the time just because we're upset Tobias isn't a real superstar.


Don't think Cavs would like to using Sexton to dump Love's contract. But it's hilarious that a Cav fan calling others trash contracts when they themselves own one of the worst one around the league. lol
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3 

Post#1960 » by DCasey91 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:16 am

the_process wrote:
Mik317 wrote:Tobias won us a game in the playoffs and up until those last few games he was good. Those last few games tho lol. If Ben didn't **** the bed as hard...people would be on him a lot harder. He missed point blank layups like multiple times...and while Ben didn't score in the 4th...Tobias had a 4 point GAME. Can't do that and be the highest paid guy.

Tobias' issue is that he likes to operate not only in the same space as Jo...but the same way...and because he doesn't get to the line...thats not exactly viable. Jo's slow moving face up jumpers work in part because he's huge, and will get to the line. Tobias its a made shot or a long wasted possesion. Also as much as Jo panic passes....he at least makes the pass..Tobias has the woat vision lol.

Its why Tobias tends to have his best games without Jo...because they take up the same space...so yeah even with a Ben trade...Tobi/Jo isn't the greatest duo as one of them need to space out their games more. Tobias simply needs to become a more willing 3pt shooter ala Middleton who also was a mid range man of action..part of the Bucks winning it was him being willing and able to just take and make big 3s (and Jrue too) which allowed Giannis to roam and wreck havoc

Basically **** need to get out of their comfort zones goddam it


Problem is Tobias needs to dribble to get in rhythm for his shot, he's not a natural catch and shoot guy.

Morey obviously cannot upgrade him or it would've been done already. It could be that every other team has Tobias as negative value in which case they're stuck.

I think it bears repeating that if they cannot make any meaningful upgrades then they should strive to get younger with more future flexibility. They aren't winning as is. One step back for two steps forward might be the only avenue available, regardless of how distasteful it is to management.


Naw, Simons, Kira, White, Vassell, Pritchard, Allen, Nesmith, Langford etc.

Thybulle, Milton, Korkmaz, Reed, Springer and 1sts/2nds if need be.

That’s what I’m aiming off now for added quality in spots we so desperately need.

I mean we still don’t have a starting PG/SG of high enough echelon for five seasons starting soon.

That’s how big our ceiling could be.

I’d rather have 3 of that type over anything else.
Maxey is one get two more let them battle the heck out each other. Inner competition breeds better players.

Our player development is sub average anyway let them duke it out for positions. Healthy formula

One eye on the future.

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