ImageImageImage

Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4

Moderators: BullyKing, HartfordWhalers, Foshan, sixers hoops, Sixerscan

User avatar
Sixersftw
RealGM
Posts: 16,164
And1: 6,283
Joined: Dec 23, 2006
Location: Shoot a 3 you coward
       

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1501 » by Sixersftw » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:24 pm

Say what you want about Philadelphia sports but you can't say its boring.
They say an analytics man doesn't have a heart, but I ran the numbers and nothing can be further from the truth - Sam Hinkie probably
Iverson Armband
Senior
Posts: 628
And1: 296
Joined: Nov 26, 2020
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1502 » by Iverson Armband » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:30 pm

Doc and Joel are gonna bum rush Morey’s office and demand something get done after about a week of nonstop Ben questions. Should be fun.
SixthStreet
Pro Prospect
Posts: 879
And1: 534
Joined: May 31, 2018
       

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1503 » by SixthStreet » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:35 pm

His edited workout videos seem to have stopped. I'm sure related to this trade request.
sixers4real
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,674
And1: 812
Joined: Nov 27, 2015
Location: Russia
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1504 » by sixers4real » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:50 pm

Great. I love what Morey is doing.
Sixers fan since 2001. From Russia.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 34,975
And1: 15,043
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1505 » by Kobblehead » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:51 pm

Simmons is about to have Vicky Guerrero heat down at the Wells Fargo Center on opening night!
djsunyc
RealGM
Posts: 73,054
And1: 46,426
Joined: Dec 28, 2003

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1506 » by djsunyc » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:53 pm

stormi wrote:Jamal Murray (inj) for Simmons, 1 for 1, is the most fair deal I've ever seen.


i think denver says hell no to that deal. murray put together some legit playoff performances that carried his team at times. ben has not.

no team that has serious post season aspirations and are close will be trading any of their top guys for ben. that would be a downgrade for them.

ben's value to a contending team is to be able to add him to the mix, not replace one of their top guys for him.

his value is most to borderline playoff teams trying to become a guarantee lower seed as opposed to play-in territory.

or to a bottom feeder hoping to jump into play-in territory.

i think in terms of team impact regular season vs. playoffs, the closest comparison i can think of for ben is demar derozan.
Tomjas
Analyst
Posts: 3,340
And1: 2,513
Joined: Nov 04, 2017
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1507 » by Tomjas » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:59 pm

djsunyc wrote:
stormi wrote:Jamal Murray (inj) for Simmons, 1 for 1, is the most fair deal I've ever seen.


i think denver says hell no to that deal. murray put together some legit playoff performances that carried his team at times. ben has not.

no team that has serious post season aspirations and are close will be trading any of their top guys for ben. that would be a downgrade for them.

ben's value to a contending team is to be able to add him to the mix, not replace one of their top guys for him.

his value is most to borderline playoff teams trying to become a guarantee lower seed as opposed to play-in territory.

or to a bottom feeder hoping to jump into play-in territory.

i think in terms of team impact regular season vs. playoffs, the closest comparison i can think of for ben is demar derozan.


DeRozan’s teams have generally been better with him OFF the floor for years

No comparison
djsunyc
RealGM
Posts: 73,054
And1: 46,426
Joined: Dec 28, 2003

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1508 » by djsunyc » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:01 pm

Tomjas wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
stormi wrote:Jamal Murray (inj) for Simmons, 1 for 1, is the most fair deal I've ever seen.


i think denver says hell no to that deal. murray put together some legit playoff performances that carried his team at times. ben has not.

no team that has serious post season aspirations and are close will be trading any of their top guys for ben. that would be a downgrade for them.

ben's value to a contending team is to be able to add him to the mix, not replace one of their top guys for him.

his value is most to borderline playoff teams trying to become a guarantee lower seed as opposed to play-in territory.

or to a bottom feeder hoping to jump into play-in territory.

i think in terms of team impact regular season vs. playoffs, the closest comparison i can think of for ben is demar derozan.


DeRozan’s teams have generally been better with him OFF the floor for years

No comparison


statistically yes, but he played so many mins, the sample size per game wasn't huge.

and most of ben's net rtg takes a huge dip with joel off the court. so alot is tied to him.

i meant more in terms of starter for big regular season winning teams, and played a big role in that, but then gets really marginalized and exposed in the playoffs to the point that they start hurting you on the court at times.
the_process
RealGM
Posts: 21,154
And1: 5,556
Joined: May 01, 2010

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1509 » by the_process » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:15 pm

This just goes to prove that as suspected, Morey has been star hunting this entire time. I mean, it's not surprising, but it's not a great look and it's bad asset management. They are more likely to get one of the players they want with draft picks then they are with Ben Simmons' contract.

Assuming he does come back, Glenn and Joel are going to be tired of answering questions about Ben after the second day of camp. Ben is going to avoid the press as much as possible, and it wouldn't even surprise me if he faked an injury.
It is highly unlikely that the Sixers will agree with your Ben Simmons evaluation for the purposes of a trade.
downtownpie
Senior
Posts: 694
And1: 341
Joined: Jan 16, 2018
   

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1510 » by downtownpie » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:22 pm

Arsenal wrote:Additional info from tmoore:

Read on Twitter


Love it. Stand strong Morey. What's Ben gonna do, retire? The coward will be back soon enough...



It's been a monumental fck up from morey. Floating Simmons for Harden is one thing but shopping him for players not even on the market is stupid.
User avatar
stormi
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,299
And1: 3,385
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
Location: busy making chaeyoung fancams
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1511 » by stormi » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:47 pm

Arsenal wrote:Additional info from tmoore:

Read on Twitter


Love it. Stand strong Morey. What's Ben gonna do, retire? The coward will be back soon enough...


Ben Simmons, mentality monster.
User avatar
stormi
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,299
And1: 3,385
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
Location: busy making chaeyoung fancams
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1512 » by stormi » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:53 pm

djsunyc wrote:
stormi wrote:Jamal Murray (inj) for Simmons, 1 for 1, is the most fair deal I've ever seen.


i think denver says hell no to that deal. murray put together some legit playoff performances that carried his team at times. ben has not.


Miami series.
31&9 against Brooklyn.
Game 6 vs Toronto.

Ben is the better player in a vacuum.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 34,975
And1: 15,043
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1513 » by Kobblehead » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:26 pm

Jamal Murray is averaging 24.2 ppg in 33 career playoff games. He's on another planet than Ben Simmons.
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 48,425
And1: 11,914
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1514 » by Stanford » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:33 pm

I still don't believe that Ben could bear not being placed on the all-star pedestal before taking his annual snooze.
Image
User avatar
stormi
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,299
And1: 3,385
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
Location: busy making chaeyoung fancams
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1515 » by stormi » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:43 pm

Jamal Murray '19-'21 Playoff-LEBRON: 1.54
Ben Simmons '19-'21 Playoff-LEBRON: 1.80

In terms of cumulative box-scores and plus-minus stats, Ben is the more impactful overall player. Illusory to use ppg to compare a superstar offensive player that's a defensive sieve, to a superstar defensive player that's a neutral offensive player.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 34,975
And1: 15,043
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1516 » by Kobblehead » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:48 pm

76ciology wrote:What do you think of Joshua Primo?

I made an earlier post in this thread about this. His numbers didnt stand out for me so i didnt gave attention at him. I think you mentioned him in the draft thread. He has good height to wingspan ration and good foundations to be a good guard in the league? He looks like a younger or poor man’s version of SGA to me (except the college numbers).

He looks the part from a physical package and can shoot a bit. I'm not sure if he knows how to play basketball though in terms of moving the ball and playing defense. Reminds me a bit of James Young of Kentucky from several years back.

The Spurs usually draft good kids who they're confident will work hard, so maybe they'll teach him how to play and he'll be good for them. He wasn't really a guy I would have drafted, though. Thought his teammate Jaden Shackelford should have came out and Primo stayed in school.
Kobblehead
RealGM
Posts: 34,975
And1: 15,043
Joined: Apr 15, 2010
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1517 » by Kobblehead » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:52 pm

stormi wrote:Jamal Murray '19-'21 Playoff-LEBRON: 1.54
Ben Simmons '19-'21 Playoff-LEBRON: 1.80

In terms of cumulative box-scores and plus-minus stats, Ben is the more impactful overall player. It's misleading to use ppg to compare a superstar offensive player that's a defensive sieve, to a superstar defensive player that's a neutral offensive player.

There's no such thing as a superstar defensive player. Ben Simmons got absolutely torched defensively by Tatum, Kawhi, and Trae over the years in playoff series.

So the playoffs roll around and he's a 12 ppg player who can't guard opposing star offensive players. How is that good? Those fake plus minus stats don't really provide much insight in that regard.

Murray has taken over playoff series and carrier teams deep into the playoffs. Like I said, he's clearly on another level than a role player like Ben Simmons.
Stanford
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 48,425
And1: 11,914
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Location: Parts Unknown
   

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1518 » by Stanford » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:53 pm

stormi wrote:neutral offensive player.


:uhoh:
Image
User avatar
stormi
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,299
And1: 3,385
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
Location: busy making chaeyoung fancams
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1519 » by stormi » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:56 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
stormi wrote:Jamal Murray '19-'21 Playoff-LEBRON: 1.54
Ben Simmons '19-'21 Playoff-LEBRON: 1.80

In terms of cumulative box-scores and plus-minus stats, Ben is the more impactful overall player. It's misleading to use ppg to compare a superstar offensive player that's a defensive sieve, to a superstar defensive player that's a neutral offensive player.

There's no such thing as a superstar defensive player. Ben Simmons got murdered and lit up defensively by Tatum, Kawhi, and Trae over the years.


Mmm. Untrue. Kawhi in 2019 was the only offensive player I've ever seen take advantage of everybody in his pathway. He murdered Butler, and then Ben and then Giannis on way to a championship. Nobody was stopping him. Ben's defense was really good in 2018, and was game-changing on Trae Young this year. It was the momentum shifter after game 1 actually.
User avatar
stormi
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,299
And1: 3,385
Joined: Jun 04, 2019
Location: busy making chaeyoung fancams
 

Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 4 

Post#1520 » by stormi » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:00 am

Stanford wrote:
stormi wrote:neutral offensive player.


:uhoh:


He grades out as a neutral offensive player per almost any cumulative box score metric.

His playmaking component, to open looks for his shooters ie: Danny Green and Seth Curry creates more total offense over the span of a game than whatever Tobias Harris does out there to get his ugly 20 ppg. And that's without a ball-handler beside him that would unlock his screen&roll slashing game.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers