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Joel: unchained.

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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#121 » by phillynative » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:48 am

Last season Embiid started the season in great shape and really played well. I think it has alot to do with the work he put in that offseason where he was able to put in the work without restriction due to injury.

This past off-season I'm sure he wasn't able to go as hard as he rehabed his knee, he's playing without Ben who has been his PG for most of his career and than he caught covid just as he seemed to be finding his rhythm. Now he's likely lost his rhythm , his wind and will have to build back up his chemistry especially with Maxey.

I think he can get back on track in due time now with everyone back.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#122 » by 76ciology » Wed Dec 1, 2021 6:13 am

phillynative wrote:Last season Embiid started the season in great shape and really played well. I think it has alot to do with the work he put in that offseason where he was able to put in the work without restriction due to injury.

This past off-season I'm sure he wasn't able to go as hard as he rehabed his knee, he's playing without Ben who has been his PG for most of his career and than he caught covid just as he seemed to be finding his rhythm. Now he's likely lost his rhythm , his wind and will have to build back up his chemistry especially with Maxey.

I think he can get back on track in due time now with everyone back.


Partly that.

Partly because defenders can stay closer to him so his shots are more challenged while he’s not getting as much calls as he got last season.

Partly also because is asked to do a lot more on defense and we know he has lost a step or two on defense. So this is tiring him out.

There are a lot of possessions when a player would drive, Embiid would help. The the player who drop pass to a big or the drive will miss and the opponent will score on put backs.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#123 » by phillynative » Wed Dec 1, 2021 10:29 am

76ciology wrote:
phillynative wrote:Last season Embiid started the season in great shape and really played well. I think it has alot to do with the work he put in that offseason where he was able to put in the work without restriction due to injury.

This past off-season I'm sure he wasn't able to go as hard as he rehabed his knee, he's playing without Ben who has been his PG for most of his career and than he caught covid just as he seemed to be finding his rhythm. Now he's likely lost his rhythm , his wind and will have to build back up his chemistry especially with Maxey.

I think he can get back on track in due time now with everyone back.


Partly that.

Partly because defenders can stay closer to him so his shots are more challenged while he’s not getting as much calls as he got last season.

Partly also because is asked to do a lot more on defense and we know he has lost a step or two on defense. So this is tiring him out.

There are a lot of possessions when a player would drive, Embiid would help. The the player who drop pass to a big or the drive will miss and the opponent will score on put backs.


Also he's not mixing it up as much this season where he would keep the defense guessing .This season its all pull up fadeaways, Which I think has to do more so with conditioning and rhythm. His conditioning is off and he pretty much has to create everything for himself and than be the anchor on the other end with a bunch of sieves as teammates.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#124 » by mjkvol » Wed Dec 1, 2021 1:29 pm

DCasey91 wrote:Sorry to tell you but they do. They compliment each other for 85% of the game the other 15% is up to the closer to take over. Embiid isn’t that never has been and never will be.

Cool good luck with that in this market climate. Our team is putrid atm.

I want see a Fox/Ben trade or even worse DLO and see how bad it gets in the end. Can’t believe out of all of it Ben back is really the right answer. Ben is flawed and so is Embiid/Harris so is Doc and the FO.


I agree with you that Ben back might the 'right' answer from a strictly basketball perspective, except for the fact that we have a coach who doesn't appear to want to adjust his late game strategies and we don't have the trade ammunition to get that needed closer right now without moving Simmons and others, or even with Simmons.

But the bottom line is that there is zero chance of Simmons ever playing here again. Right now, I might take DLo and picks, and blow the whole thing up if it implodes in the second half. Something has to give, because as constructed this is a 5-6 seed at best.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#125 » by rzzzzz » Fri Dec 3, 2021 11:16 pm

I think Embiid will regain his pre-virus endurance. I’m concerned that he still seems to struggle with his touch on the new basketball, but he’ll get his big old paws used the new surface at some point, right? (Right?)
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#126 » by 76ciology » Sat Dec 4, 2021 4:37 am

Nobody’s perfect. We have to see Embiid for what he is.

He needs to play with another guy who is mobile, switchable, space the floor, protect the rim and rebound. This will allow him to step out to defend PnRs. Embiid is also not Rudy Gobert who can single handedly anchor the defense. He’s more like Jokic than Gobert on defense.

He also needs to play with a guy who can score on ISO or PnR with .9-1.00 points per possession, either as primary action to our set with Embiid or as an alternative go to guy option when Embiid is under the weather or not available. Right now, that guy is Seth. Prior to that, it was JJ.

Embiid is more like an inconsistent version of Dirk on offense (but with better defense). He relies a lot on his jumpers and this is not a bad thing specially down the stretch. But he isn’t a guy who can single handedly carry your offense because he is highly inconsistent on this end, unlike Dirk.

Nobody’s perfect so you have to surround a player with the right guys. Even Jordan has to play with Luc Longley and skilled wings. And if you want to surround Embiid, you first need to have a clear view of what he is.

Giannis has a back-up rim protector in Brolo and has a back-up go to guy with Middleton. And Giannis is already a much superior and much consistent player than Biid.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#127 » by phillynative » Sat Dec 4, 2021 10:53 am

76ciology wrote:Nobody’s perfect. We have to see Embiid for what he is.

He needs to play with another guy who is mobile, switchable, space the floor, protect the rim and rebound. This will allow him to step out to defend PnRs. Embiid is also not Rudy Gobert who can single handedly anchor the defense. He’s more like Jokic than Gobert on defense.

He also needs to play with a guy who can score on ISO or PnR with .9-1.00 points per possession, either as primary action to our set with Embiid or as an alternative go to guy option when Embiid is under the weather or not available. Right now, that guy is Seth. Prior to that, it was JJ.

Embiid is more like an inconsistent version of Dirk on offense (but with better defense). He relies a lot on his jumpers and this is not a bad thing specially down the stretch. But he isn’t a guy who can single handedly carry your offense because he is highly inconsistent on this end, unlike Dirk.

Nobody’s perfect so you have to surround a player with the right guys. Even Jordan has to play with Luc Longley and skilled wings. And if you want to surround Embiid, you first need to have a clear view of what he is.

Giannis has a back-up rim protector in Brolo and has a back-up go to guy with Middleton. And Giannis is already a much superior and much consistent player than Biid.


Jokic doesn't anchor any defense. They are not comparable on that end or any end tbh.Just two different elite bigs. Rudy is the best defensive anchor in the league, he also doesn't expend the same energy offensively or creates the same high level gravity as Embiid. Embiid is a two way big but you don't want him being the anchor all game just like you don't want him creating shots for himself all game

Embiid need help on both ends just like any superstar that's obvious. Season after season the Sixers have missed on what to put around him which is sad.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#128 » by syntax » Sat Dec 4, 2021 7:16 pm

phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:Nobody’s perfect. We have to see Embiid for what he is.

He needs to play with another guy who is mobile, switchable, space the floor, protect the rim and rebound. This will allow him to step out to defend PnRs. Embiid is also not Rudy Gobert who can single handedly anchor the defense. He’s more like Jokic than Gobert on defense.

He also needs to play with a guy who can score on ISO or PnR with .9-1.00 points per possession, either as primary action to our set with Embiid or as an alternative go to guy option when Embiid is under the weather or not available. Right now, that guy is Seth. Prior to that, it was JJ.

Embiid is more like an inconsistent version of Dirk on offense (but with better defense). He relies a lot on his jumpers and this is not a bad thing specially down the stretch. But he isn’t a guy who can single handedly carry your offense because he is highly inconsistent on this end, unlike Dirk.

Nobody’s perfect so you have to surround a player with the right guys. Even Jordan has to play with Luc Longley and skilled wings. And if you want to surround Embiid, you first need to have a clear view of what he is.

Giannis has a back-up rim protector in Brolo and has a back-up go to guy with Middleton. And Giannis is already a much superior and much consistent player than Biid.


Jokic doesn't anchor any defense. They are not comparable on that end or any end tbh.Just two different elite bigs. Rudy is the best defensive anchor in the league, he also doesn't expend the same energy offensively or creates the same high level gravity as Embiid. Embiid is a two way big but you don't want him being the anchor all game just like you don't want him creating shots for himself all game

Embiid need help on both ends just like any superstar that's obvious. Season after season the Sixers have missed on what to put around him which is sad.



Jokic leads the league this season in defensive box plus minus. He was 4th last year. He might not block shots but he is an 'anchor'.

He was also 10th in the league in steals last year.

Denver don't block a lot of shots but they get steals and boards. They average the lowest 2nd chance points of any team.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#129 » by Mik317 » Sat Dec 4, 2021 7:18 pm

Embiid's defense has been great this year tho

wtf
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#130 » by phillynative » Sat Dec 4, 2021 7:24 pm

syntax wrote:
phillynative wrote:
76ciology wrote:Nobody’s perfect. We have to see Embiid for what he is.

He needs to play with another guy who is mobile, switchable, space the floor, protect the rim and rebound. This will allow him to step out to defend PnRs. Embiid is also not Rudy Gobert who can single handedly anchor the defense. He’s more like Jokic than Gobert on defense.

He also needs to play with a guy who can score on ISO or PnR with .9-1.00 points per possession, either as primary action to our set with Embiid or as an alternative go to guy option when Embiid is under the weather or not available. Right now, that guy is Seth. Prior to that, it was JJ.

Embiid is more like an inconsistent version of Dirk on offense (but with better defense). He relies a lot on his jumpers and this is not a bad thing specially down the stretch. But he isn’t a guy who can single handedly carry your offense because he is highly inconsistent on this end, unlike Dirk.

Nobody’s perfect so you have to surround a player with the right guys. Even Jordan has to play with Luc Longley and skilled wings. And if you want to surround Embiid, you first need to have a clear view of what he is.

Giannis has a back-up rim protector in Brolo and has a back-up go to guy with Middleton. And Giannis is already a much superior and much consistent player than Biid.


Jokic doesn't anchor any defense. They are not comparable on that end or any end tbh.Just two different elite bigs. Rudy is the best defensive anchor in the league, he also doesn't expend the same energy offensively or creates the same high level gravity as Embiid. Embiid is a two way big but you don't want him being the anchor all game just like you don't want him creating shots for himself all game

Embiid need help on both ends just like any superstar that's obvious. Season after season the Sixers have missed on what to put around him which is sad.



Jokic leads the league this season in defensive box plus minus. He was 4th last year. He might not block shots but he is an 'anchor'.

He was also 10th in the league in steals last year.

Denver don't block a lot of shots but they get steals and boards. They average the lowest 2nd chance points of any team.


That makes since
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#131 » by phillynative » Sat Dec 4, 2021 7:30 pm

Mik317 wrote:Embiid's defense has been great this year tho

wtf


It has except for the lapses he has due to fatigue.. He moves his feet well for his size, have good hands and great timing on blocks. I can just imagine how much better it would be if he had help.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#132 » by 76ciology » Sun Dec 5, 2021 12:49 am

My point is not on Jojo’s defense or Jojo as a player.

My point is you need another guy who can rotate to the paint and protect the rim to play great TEAM defense, specially in the play-offs.

Biid can not step out and challenge perimeter shots or step out to defend PnR because once he does, teams are going to feast in the paint. And this has been the most common denominator in our loses.

For instance during the Wolves game, Biid staying with KAT at the perimeter allows alot of points in the paint for the Wolves.

Because of the rule change and the way the game is played, it’s impossible to single handedly anchor the defense. Our current set-up is Anchor (Biid or Drum)+Roamer (DG or Thybulle) and that is not enough. Because you have multiple defensive liabilities on the court.

What you’ll likely see is teams running PnR like the Hawksf/Celts (2020)series where we have to either choose to give up mid range jumpers by pnr ball handler or easy baskets at the paint
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#133 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Sun Dec 5, 2021 1:10 am

76ciology wrote:My point is not on Jojo’s defense or Jojo as a player.

My point is you need another guy who can rotate to the paint and protect the rim to play great TEAM defense, specially in the play-offs.

Biid can not step out and challenge perimeter shots or step out to defend PnR because once he does, teams are going to feast in the paint. And this has been the most common denominator in our loses.

For instance during the Wolves game, Biid staying with KAT at the perimeter allows alot of points in the paint for the Wolves.

Because of the rule change and the way the game is played, it’s impossible to single handedly anchor the defense. Our current set-up is Anchor (Biid or Drum)+Roamer (DG or Thybulle) and that is not enough. Because you have multiple defensive liabilities on the court.


We have players that can do that. Both Bassey and Paul Reed have shown the ability to do so. Thing is, neither one of them can shoot and therefore can't be on the floor with Embiid. Thybulle becomes that player that you speak of. Everyone likes to throw dirt on Thybulle, but his defense is way too important to NOT have him on the floor. We've seen Thybulle guard all five positions on the floor and do it quite well. He has a very special skill in that regards, it just sucks because he can't throw it in the ocean on offense, but at least he's willing to try. In this era of basketball, we can get away with it with Thybulle for stretches. He was playing the 4 spot last night in stretches, switching in between guarding Trae Young and John Collins. Pretty damn impressive if you ask me. FWIW our best "team" defensive unit is Maxey, Green, Thybulle, Niang, Embiid. But you are right though...It would be great to have another defensive anchor that you could leave out there that wouldn't be a complete liability on the offensive end. Ben is gone, I wont mention his name, but maybe whoever we eventually trade him for can be that player?
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#134 » by syntax » Sun Dec 5, 2021 1:27 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
76ciology wrote:My point is not on Jojo’s defense or Jojo as a player.

My point is you need another guy who can rotate to the paint and protect the rim to play great TEAM defense, specially in the play-offs.

Biid can not step out and challenge perimeter shots or step out to defend PnR because once he does, teams are going to feast in the paint. And this has been the most common denominator in our loses.

For instance during the Wolves game, Biid staying with KAT at the perimeter allows alot of points in the paint for the Wolves.

Because of the rule change and the way the game is played, it’s impossible to single handedly anchor the defense. Our current set-up is Anchor (Biid or Drum)+Roamer (DG or Thybulle) and that is not enough. Because you have multiple defensive liabilities on the court.


We have players that can do that. Both Bassey and Paul Reed have shown the ability to do so. Thing is, neither one of them can shoot and therefore can't be on the floor with Embiid. Thybulle becomes that player that you speak of. Everyone likes to throw dirt on Thybulle, but his defense is way too important to NOT have him on the floor. We've seen Thybulle guard all five positions on the floor and do it quite well. He has a very special skill in that regards, it just sucks because he can't throw it in the ocean on offense, but at least he's willing to try. In this era of basketball, we can get away with it with Thybulle for stretches. He was playing the 4 spot last night in stretches, switching in between guarding Trae Young and John Collins. Pretty damn impressive if you ask me. FWIW our best "team" defensive unit is Maxey, Green, Thybulle, Niang, Embiid. But you are right though...It would be great to have another defensive anchor that you could leave out there that wouldn't be a complete liability on the offensive end. Ben is gone, I wont mention his name, but maybe whoever we eventually trade him for can be that player?


People underrate defense until you get slaughtered constantly by offenses. Look at Kemba in NY. I hate to say it, but the top defensive teams have a center who can switch onto guards and hold their own... Otherwise you need to cover up with great help/scramble defenders.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#135 » by 76ciology » Sun Dec 5, 2021 2:10 am

Underrating or overrating defense or offense is relative. But generally, offense is vastly superior to defense.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#136 » by syntax » Sun Dec 5, 2021 2:27 am

76ciology wrote:Underrating or overrating defense or offense is relative. But generally, offense is vastly superior to defense.


Disagree, the champs will be one of the top 10 defensive teams.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#137 » by phillynative » Sun Dec 5, 2021 12:16 pm

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
76ciology wrote:My point is not on Jojo’s defense or Jojo as a player.

My point is you need another guy who can rotate to the paint and protect the rim to play great TEAM defense, specially in the play-offs.

Biid can not step out and challenge perimeter shots or step out to defend PnR because once he does, teams are going to feast in the paint. And this has been the most common denominator in our loses.

For instance during the Wolves game, Biid staying with KAT at the perimeter allows alot of points in the paint for the Wolves.

Because of the rule change and the way the game is played, it’s impossible to single handedly anchor the defense. Our current set-up is Anchor (Biid or Drum)+Roamer (DG or Thybulle) and rimt is not enough. Because you have multiple defensive liabilities on the court.


We have players that can do that. Both Bassey and Paul Reed have shown the ability to do so. Thing is, neither one of them can shoot and therefore can't be on the floor with Embiid. Thybulle becomes that player that you speak of. Everyone likes to throw dirt on Thybulle, but his defense is way too important to NOT have him on the floor. We've seen Thybulle guard all five positions on the floor and do it quite well. He has a very special skill in that regards, it just sucks because he can't throw it in the ocean on offense, but at least he's willing to try. In this era of basketball, we can get away with it with Thybulle for stretches. He was playing the 4 spot last night in stretches, switching in between guarding Trae Young and John Collins. Pretty damn impressive if you ask me. FWIW our best "team" defensive unit is Maxey, Green, Thybulle, Niang, Embiid. But you are right though...It would be great to have another defensive anchor that you could leave out there that wouldn't be a complete liability on the offensive end. Ben is gone, I wont mention his name, but maybe whoever we eventually trade him for can be that player?



Thybulle is a good defender and blocks alot of shots defending his man but he's not helping Embiid protect the rim, he also is a offensive liability .Like 76ciology said there is no one on this team you can pair with Embiid that can help protect the rim when Embiid gets pulled out of there to defend the peremiter. All the best defensive teams have this ability or option. Paul and Bassey are too green right now and trying to put their games together.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#138 » by MVP1992 » Sun Dec 5, 2021 12:49 pm

Cof Bassey cof
One player on this team I get excited to watch. Give him more minutes

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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#139 » by Kobblehead » Sun Dec 5, 2021 2:53 pm

76ciology wrote:My point is you need another guy who can rotate to the paint and protect the rim to play great TEAM defense, specially in the play-offs.


The problem is that it's really hard to find the exact match that will be optimal on both ends.

The pool of guys that can protect the rim from the weakside is fairly large. But that shrinks quickly when you need to add the filter of also being a floor spacer on the offensive end.

Then the pool of guys you're describing is basically:

Tier 1:
Jaren Jackson
Kristaps Porzingis

Tier 2:
Christian Wood
Jerami Grant
Bobby Portis
Robert Covington
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#140 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Mon Dec 6, 2021 2:13 am

Question for anyone here that cares to answer it. CAN...You possibly in any way, pair Embiid with Christian Wood? Like, would it work on defense for us? Offensively I think it could work. I'm willing to bet that Houston has Wood on the table if the right offer presented itself. That's why I ask.

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