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The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread

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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#81 » by TTP » Wed Nov 3, 2021 1:04 am

sixers4real wrote:I give Doc a ton of credit for the way we play in RS. Both this season and previous one. We were #1 seed last season and improved a lot in RS compared to 2019-20.

We start greatly this year, we are 5-2, players are focused, players give it all on the floor.

There is no mess, no drama. All are being professionals and playing great basketball. Doc deserves a lot of credit for that.

But playoffs is what bother me about Doc.


You mean other than the biggest mess and biggest drama in the NBA right now, right?
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#82 » by sixers4real » Wed Nov 3, 2021 1:13 am

TTP wrote:
sixers4real wrote:I give Doc a ton of credit for the way we play in RS. Both this season and previous one. We were #1 seed last season and improved a lot in RS compared to 2019-20.

We start greatly this year, we are 5-2, players are focused, players give it all on the floor.

There is no mess, no drama. All are being professionals and playing great basketball. Doc deserves a lot of credit for that.

But playoffs is what bother me about Doc.


You mean other than the biggest mess and biggest drama in the NBA right now, right?

If this would be a mess, we would be 2-5, not 5-2.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#83 » by Negrodamus » Wed Nov 3, 2021 1:55 am

sixers4real wrote:
TTP wrote:
sixers4real wrote:I give Doc a ton of credit for the way we play in RS. Both this season and previous one. We were #1 seed last season and improved a lot in RS compared to 2019-20.

We start greatly this year, we are 5-2, players are focused, players give it all on the floor.

There is no mess, no drama. All are being professionals and playing great basketball. Doc deserves a lot of credit for that.

But playoffs is what bother me about Doc.


You mean other than the biggest mess and biggest drama in the NBA right now, right?

If this would be a mess, we would be 2-5, not 5-2.


I would attribute the lack of drama among this current group more to a bunch of veterans knowing their role and the stars having defined roles. I don’t think Green will think he’s Kawhi or Curry is Curry. Drummond also doesn’t expect to cut into Joel’s PT.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#84 » by Sixerscan » Wed Nov 3, 2021 2:09 am

Negrodamus wrote:
sixers4real wrote:
TTP wrote:
You mean other than the biggest mess and biggest drama in the NBA right now, right?

If this would be a mess, we would be 2-5, not 5-2.


I would attribute the lack of drama among this current group more to a bunch of veterans knowing their role and the stars having defined roles. I don’t think Green will think he’s Kawhi or Curry is Curry. Drummond also doesn’t expect to cut into Joel’s PT.

Well Doc apparently played a big part in bringing in Niang and Drummond. Meanwhile President Stevens is bringing in Schroder.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#85 » by 76ciology » Wed Nov 3, 2021 6:19 am

Negrodamus wrote:
sixers4real wrote:
TTP wrote:
You mean other than the biggest mess and biggest drama in the NBA right now, right?

If this would be a mess, we would be 2-5, not 5-2.


I would attribute the lack of drama among this current group more to a bunch of veterans knowing their role and the stars having defined roles. I don’t think Green will think he’s Kawhi or Curry is Curry. Drummond also doesn’t expect to cut into Joel’s PT.


Doc is also been known for decades to put players play at their best and be satisfied on their roles

Darrell Armstrong, Bo Outlaw, James Posey, Eddie House, Jamal Crawford, Lou Williams, Gallinari, Tobias, Montrez Harrell are some of the examples.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#86 » by 76ciology » Thu Nov 4, 2021 5:23 am

Finally we’re playing the right way.
First time since 2014.

So fun to watch.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#87 » by mjkvol » Thu Nov 4, 2021 1:38 pm

76ciology wrote:Finally we’re playing the right way.
First time since 2014.

So fun to watch.


What a coincidence that it's happening with our "should be an all-star" starting max-salary stud out of the lineup. Go figure.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#88 » by 76ciology » Thu Nov 4, 2021 1:49 pm

mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:Finally we’re playing the right way.
First time since 2014.

So fun to watch.


What a coincidence that it's happening with our "should be an all-star" starting max-salary stud out of the lineup. Go figure.


Not just an allstar. But also winner of the prestigious “Nickelodeon Kids Choice Sports” award in 2019.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#89 » by mjkvol » Thu Nov 4, 2021 2:23 pm

76ciology wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
76ciology wrote:Finally we’re playing the right way.
First time since 2014.

So fun to watch.


What a coincidence that it's happening with our "should be an all-star" starting max-salary stud out of the lineup. Go figure.


Not just an allstar. But also winner of the prestigious “Nickelodeon Kids Choice Sports” award in 2019.


Isn't that about the same as being on the top 75 of all time list?
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#90 » by sixers4real » Sat Nov 6, 2021 2:53 am

I’m very delighted with the way Sixers are playing the first 9 games.
It’s unfair how much blame Doc got for the Atlanta series, but he got almost no credit for being #1 in the East last year and gets no credit for starting 7-2 this year.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#91 » by TTP » Sat Nov 6, 2021 4:13 am

sixers4real wrote:I’m very delighted with the way Sixers are playing the first 9 games.
It’s unfair how much blame Doc got for the Atlanta series, but he got almost no credit for being #1 in the East last year and gets no credit for starting 7-2 this year.


I'm not sure how unfair it is. You can point to very specific blunders that he makes that can be directly attributed to him - the challenge issues, the Ben comment after game 7, various rotation choices like playing Ben and Dwight together too much, playing units without enough spacing on the floor, playing a 10 man rotation in the second round of the playoffs (and even an 11 man at one point), starting Mike Scott at various points last season when he was terrible, etc. The list goes on.

The positives generally revolve around things that cannot be directly attributed to Doc. There are many reasons a team can be playing well. The most obvious are just better team construction or the greatness of Embiid. We run a very similar system to what we ran before Doc got here, and we were losing round 2 in seven games before he got here as well.

Suggesting that the team playing well means Doc is doing a good job and deserves a lot of credit is just really lazy analysis. What specifically do you like that he does well that can be directly attributed to him? You can't even really make the argument that he's great with player relationships at this point, because the Ben situation can at least be partially attributed to Doc. I'll give him credit for contributing to bringing in Drummond if he came here at least partially because of their unique relationship, though I expect the chance to start 20+ games for a playoff team probably was a bigger factor than anything else.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#92 » by sixers4real » Sat Nov 6, 2021 4:43 am

TTP wrote:
sixers4real wrote:I’m very delighted with the way Sixers are playing the first 9 games.
It’s unfair how much blame Doc got for the Atlanta series, but he got almost no credit for being #1 in the East last year and gets no credit for starting 7-2 this year.


I'm not sure how unfair it is. You can point to very specific blunders that he makes that can be directly attributed to him - the challenge issues, the Ben comment after game 7, various rotation choices like playing Ben and Dwight together too much, playing units without enough spacing on the floor, playing a 10 man rotation in the second round of the playoffs (and even an 11 man at one point), starting Mike Scott at various points last season when he was terrible, etc. The list goes on.

The positives generally revolved around things that cannot be directly attributed to him. There are many reasons a team can be playing well. The most obvious are just better team construction or the greatness of Embiid. We run a very similar system to what we ran before Doc got here, and we were losing round 2 in seven games before he got here as well.

Suggesting that the team playing well means Doc is doing a good job and deserves a lot of credit is just really lazy analysis. What specifically do you like that he does well that can be directly attributed to him? You can't even really make the argument that he's great with player relationships at this point, because the Ben situation can at least be partially attributed to Doc. I'll give him credit for contributing to bringing in Drummond if he came here at least partially because of their unique relationship.

- Joel Embiid was 2nd in MVP voting last year. We havent had that since 2001. Joel is playing better under Doc then BB.
- we were #1 seed last year, haven’t happen since 2001
- Tobias Harris played much better under Doc compared to BB

I give Doc credit for this things, we haven’t see any of that before him.
Doc is not ideal, but no one is. Looking forward to 2022 playoffs so see if he makes changes and adjustments compared to 2021.

And regarding Ben Simmons part, I’m on Doc side here, I can’t believe how Ben can be so soft and instead of taking critics like a grown up, improve and prove people wrong, he goes full baby mode.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#93 » by TTP » Sat Nov 6, 2021 4:55 am

sixers4real wrote:
TTP wrote:
sixers4real wrote:I’m very delighted with the way Sixers are playing the first 9 games.
It’s unfair how much blame Doc got for the Atlanta series, but he got almost no credit for being #1 in the East last year and gets no credit for starting 7-2 this year.


I'm not sure how unfair it is. You can point to very specific blunders that he makes that can be directly attributed to him - the challenge issues, the Ben comment after game 7, various rotation choices like playing Ben and Dwight together too much, playing units without enough spacing on the floor, playing a 10 man rotation in the second round of the playoffs (and even an 11 man at one point), starting Mike Scott at various points last season when he was terrible, etc. The list goes on.

The positives generally revolved around things that cannot be directly attributed to him. There are many reasons a team can be playing well. The most obvious are just better team construction or the greatness of Embiid. We run a very similar system to what we ran before Doc got here, and we were losing round 2 in seven games before he got here as well.

Suggesting that the team playing well means Doc is doing a good job and deserves a lot of credit is just really lazy analysis. What specifically do you like that he does well that can be directly attributed to him? You can't even really make the argument that he's great with player relationships at this point, because the Ben situation can at least be partially attributed to Doc. I'll give him credit for contributing to bringing in Drummond if he came here at least partially because of their unique relationship.

- Joel Embiid was 2nd in MVP voting last year. We havent had that since 2001. Joel is playing better under Doc then BB.
- we were #1 seed last year, haven’t happen since 2001
- Tobias Harris played much better under Doc compared to BB

I give Doc credit for this things, we haven’t see any of that before him.
Doc is not ideal, but no one is. Looking forward to 2022 playoffs so see if he makes changes and adjustments compared to 2021.

And regarding Ben Simmons part, I’m on Doc side here, I can’t believe how Ben can be so soft and instead of taking critics like a grown up, improve and prove people wrong, he goes full baby mode.


I know you do, and those things are not directly attributable to Doc. Those things can easily be attributed to better roster construction and just to the players themselves for being more experienced in both the NBA and with each other.

It sounds like you're content with "player = good, team = good, therefore Doc = good" logic, which just isn't enough for me.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#94 » by 76ciology » Sat Nov 6, 2021 5:06 am

you see what you get with doc since 2000.

G7 losing record = check
Players playing at their career best = check (except for ben)
Players (embiid wants him)wanting to play with him = check
GM (morey wants him at clips) wanting to let him coach = check
Strong second unit = check
Strong PnR play = check

-2x coach of teams that overachieved alot(magic and clips)
-He has coached probably the most or one of the most superstars among active coaches
-Coach of the year winner
-NBA champion

This is not an accident like Frank Vogel or Tyrone Lue winning the championship because of Lebron. Doc has been doing all these since 1999.

Like Sixerscan said it, I just hope there’s someone who can help him with his mid game adjustments. Altho personally, I think luck plays more role on his g7 blunders more than anything. For instance the G7 of the clips-nuggs series is more on PG and Kawhi shooting horribly more than anything. For the Hawks series, its Embiid’s TOs, Thybulle’s mistakes and Ben passing up open shots. We dont even need to go into G7, if Embiid didnt miss that open shot to win it on one of the games or when Embiid suddenly goes cold down the stretch.

If there’s anything I can blame doc with it’s on G1, when I think he underestimated the Hawks and let the team play it through. In the end we almost won G1, but it was too little too late.

Nobody’s perfect.

If there’s someone better and we can replace doc with him, then do it. And hopefully that coach can turn one of our guards into a go to scorer like Michael Jordan that can take over games and be a healer to make Embiid immune to all kinds of injuries and conditioning issues.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#95 » by sixers4real » Sat Nov 6, 2021 5:07 am

TTP wrote:
sixers4real wrote:
TTP wrote:
I'm not sure how unfair it is. You can point to very specific blunders that he makes that can be directly attributed to him - the challenge issues, the Ben comment after game 7, various rotation choices like playing Ben and Dwight together too much, playing units without enough spacing on the floor, playing a 10 man rotation in the second round of the playoffs (and even an 11 man at one point), starting Mike Scott at various points last season when he was terrible, etc. The list goes on.

The positives generally revolved around things that cannot be directly attributed to him. There are many reasons a team can be playing well. The most obvious are just better team construction or the greatness of Embiid. We run a very similar system to what we ran before Doc got here, and we were losing round 2 in seven games before he got here as well.

Suggesting that the team playing well means Doc is doing a good job and deserves a lot of credit is just really lazy analysis. What specifically do you like that he does well that can be directly attributed to him? You can't even really make the argument that he's great with player relationships at this point, because the Ben situation can at least be partially attributed to Doc. I'll give him credit for contributing to bringing in Drummond if he came here at least partially because of their unique relationship.

- Joel Embiid was 2nd in MVP voting last year. We havent had that since 2001. Joel is playing better under Doc then BB.
- we were #1 seed last year, haven’t happen since 2001
- Tobias Harris played much better under Doc compared to BB

I give Doc credit for this things, we haven’t see any of that before him.
Doc is not ideal, but no one is. Looking forward to 2022 playoffs so see if he makes changes and adjustments compared to 2021.

And regarding Ben Simmons part, I’m on Doc side here, I can’t believe how Ben can be so soft and instead of taking critics like a grown up, improve and prove people wrong, he goes full baby mode.


I know you do, and those things are not directly attributable to Doc. Those things can easily be attributed to better roster construction and just to the players themselves for being more experienced in both the NBA and with each other.

It sounds like you're content with "player = good, team = good, therefore Doc = good" logic, which just isn't enough for me.

Yeah, well, okay. I don’t buy the content that it’s just roster construction and players all of sudden playing better, as a result team is playing better, but coach has nothing to do with it.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#96 » by TTP » Sat Nov 6, 2021 6:57 am

sixers4real wrote:
TTP wrote:
sixers4real wrote:- Joel Embiid was 2nd in MVP voting last year. We havent had that since 2001. Joel is playing better under Doc then BB.
- we were #1 seed last year, haven’t happen since 2001
- Tobias Harris played much better under Doc compared to BB

I give Doc credit for this things, we haven’t see any of that before him.
Doc is not ideal, but no one is. Looking forward to 2022 playoffs so see if he makes changes and adjustments compared to 2021.

And regarding Ben Simmons part, I’m on Doc side here, I can’t believe how Ben can be so soft and instead of taking critics like a grown up, improve and prove people wrong, he goes full baby mode.


I know you do, and those things are not directly attributable to Doc. Those things can easily be attributed to better roster construction and just to the players themselves for being more experienced in both the NBA and with each other.

It sounds like you're content with "player = good, team = good, therefore Doc = good" logic, which just isn't enough for me.

Yeah, well, okay. I don’t buy the content that it’s just roster construction and players all of sudden playing better, as a result team is playing better, but coach has nothing to do with it.


So what did he specifically have to do with it then? What did Doc do that caused Embiid to take his game to another level? Because your argument looks a lot like correlation = causation to me.

It's just pretty damning to me that I can point to like 10 specific mistakes that Doc is solely responsible for, but you can't even list a single positive that is solely from Doc.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#97 » by TTP » Sat Nov 6, 2021 7:03 am

76ciology wrote:-He has coached probably the most or one of the most superstars among active coaches


Cause

76ciology wrote:-2x coach of teams that overachieved alot(magic and clips)
-Coach of the year winner
-NBA champion


Effect
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#98 » by 76ciology » Sat Nov 6, 2021 7:09 am

TTP wrote:
76ciology wrote:-He has coached probably the most or one of the most superstars among active coaches


Cause

76ciology wrote:-2x coach of teams that overachieved alot(magic and clips)
-Coach of the year winner

-NBA champion


Effect


Bolded part does not apply to the “cause”

My point is he is accomplished. And is proven to be a winner coach on an inferiorly talented team (magic and clips) and a championship team (celts).

Did the cp3 lead clips team underachieve a case of resulting? All their top guys have their best years with doc, and I find all their guys are in sync. I dont find any of their guys not put in the best position to be at their best. Maybe variance was in play, like all things in sports?

And throughout his career his success is not directly because he has Morey as his GM. Some of his success is even because of bad roster talent.

He is sought after. Teams pays draft pick for him. Multiple teams wants to sign him. Morey and Embiid wants him. Players wants to play for him. And we know more than they do?

Again, I dont think he’s perfect. But he’s a really good coach based on his OVERALL track record and specially if you compare it to Brett.

I personally like his brand of coaching. He coaches in layers. Then I think you need a coach like him whom has the balls to discipline players and who players want to play with him on this player empowerment era. Seth, Niang and Drummond all have connections with him.

Maybe all this is just a subjective preference
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#99 » by thenbaman » Sat Nov 6, 2021 1:42 pm

Is he the one that has embiid off to an all-star level play this year.
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Re: The Official Fire Doc Rivers Thread 

Post#100 » by thenbaman » Sat Nov 6, 2021 1:43 pm

No i forgot its the new ball,lol

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