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The Tomjas Thread

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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 7 

Post#1281 » by Negrodamus » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:38 pm

GutUNC wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
GutUNC wrote:Are ratings down because of Ben Simmons?


No, were ratings down because we were tanking? Did Jerry/Bryan Colangelo fix that solution?

GutUNC wrote:Do you think the union is going to have Ben Simmons fake mental issues as a sticking point in the next CBA?


I think owners will point to this as being a large amount of exposure for something that is considered an extremely complex issue. Can't dismiss players with mental issues since the stigma exists, but players can certainly utilize it to be paid millions and not play for a franchise they don't like.... you know, kind of like what is *allegedly* occurring right now. With multiple players being open about their issues with mental health, it's becoming commonplace to talk about these issues, which is absolutely great. But there are also players like Kawhi, James Harden, Ben, Jimmy, who have tried to push their way out in the past 5 years with some even exaggerating injuries so they would be paid while holding out. Mental health issues becomes this umbrella issue that owners can't touch. Even now, many in the media are calling out Morey for trying to intervene with his treatment.

Imagine if this goes into next summer? Silver is not going to tolerate that. This is the league that vetoed the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers because they didn't like it.



The problem with tanking was idiots in the media like Wilbon acting like it was a new thing and ripping the team for doing it. That actually did bring negative attention to the league, unlike this Simmons situation. Nationally, no one cares about this as anything other then a soap opera topic.

David Stern veoted the Paul trade. He's dead now. That's not a Silver move.


This is has a bigger interest than any moment during our tanking seasons.

You're right, Stern is gone, now we have a guy who has intervened in team personnel at least as much as Stern in his short time as commissioner, including removed an owner from his team. To say he wouldn't intervene in something like this is really not looking at Silver's body of work.

Here's a comment by Marc Stein back in Sept:

"There is likewise great curiosity about the NBA's potential reaction. Would Commissioner Adam Silver go beyond exerting mere backchannel pressure on Simmons to report and step in to sanction him if he doesn’t? Several league insiders think so, but I’m not so sure. While true that the NBA dreads the idea of training camp holdouts coming back into vogue, like we saw in the early 1990s before the advent of rookie-scale contracts, intervention from the league is not always instant when discipline can come from the team first. The onus will be on the Sixers first to impose fines or a suspension."


At a certain point, this is going to distract from the season and Silver is going to be annoyed by it. He probably already is.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1282 » by Negrodamus » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:41 pm

elchengue20 wrote:Ben Simmons playing with Zion makes ZERO sense.

If NO gets involved its for sure in a 3 team deal.


Fox with Zion would actually be extremely fun to watch.

Build a trade around Ben to Kings, Fox to Pelicans, Ingram to Sixers.

We'd probably have to throw something else to the Kings.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 7 

Post#1283 » by Black Mage » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:18 pm

Tomjas wrote:
sodmoraes wrote:I may be dumb, but i´m failing to understand ben/rich paul endgame strategy, flashing the "mental health card". In my opinion, it erodes ben´s value even more, making the possibility of a trade harder. Which team will want to trade good players for a broken down player, who maybe will need some time off after the trade, to fix his "mental issues" ? Ben value around the league was already low before his mental problems. After that, he doesnt have value anymore.

We already know Morey won´t trade ben just for the sake of doing it. So now, with his mental health disease, we will get worst trade offers, so Morey will probably never trade him. He will be in philly forever, probably without getting paid( since it seems is just a scam to get paid).

So if rich paul wants ben ou ot Philly, this strategy doesnt seem good. I think they are using this so Ben gets paid. It may work in the short term, but in the long term i think it makes a trade harder to happen. Seems like a shortsighted move, but they are desperate. :lol:


My belief is that Ben is actually going through things as none of it makes sense

The guy turned up in Philly unannounced when he obviously didn’t want to be here

He hasn’t hated on the Sixers or his teammates and apparently can’t articulate why he wants out


Basically just random, knee jerk, uncoordinated reactions to get paid


Do you really believe the garbage you type? Ben or his reps dumped on Doc, Embiid AND us fans. It's well documented.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1284 » by GutUNC » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:25 pm

remove
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 7 

Post#1285 » by GutUNC » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:26 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
GutUNC wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
No, were ratings down because we were tanking? Did Jerry/Bryan Colangelo fix that solution?



I think owners will point to this as being a large amount of exposure for something that is considered an extremely complex issue. Can't dismiss players with mental issues since the stigma exists, but players can certainly utilize it to be paid millions and not play for a franchise they don't like.... you know, kind of like what is *allegedly* occurring right now. With multiple players being open about their issues with mental health, it's becoming commonplace to talk about these issues, which is absolutely great. But there are also players like Kawhi, James Harden, Ben, Jimmy, who have tried to push their way out in the past 5 years with some even exaggerating injuries so they would be paid while holding out. Mental health issues becomes this umbrella issue that owners can't touch. Even now, many in the media are calling out Morey for trying to intervene with his treatment.

Imagine if this goes into next summer? Silver is not going to tolerate that. This is the league that vetoed the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers because they didn't like it.



The problem with tanking was idiots in the media like Wilbon acting like it was a new thing and ripping the team for doing it. That actually did bring negative attention to the league, unlike this Simmons situation. Nationally, no one cares about this as anything other then a soap opera topic.

David Stern veoted the Paul trade. He's dead now. That's not a Silver move.


This is has a bigger interest than any moment during our tanking seasons.

You're right, Stern is gone, now we have a guy who has intervened in team personnel at least as much as Stern in his short time as commissioner, including removed an owner from his team. To say he wouldn't intervene in something like this is really not looking at Silver's body of work.

Here's a comment by Marc Stein back in Sept:

"There is likewise great curiosity about the NBA's potential reaction. Would Commissioner Adam Silver go beyond exerting mere backchannel pressure on Simmons to report and step in to sanction him if he doesn’t? Several league insiders think so, but I’m not so sure. While true that the NBA dreads the idea of training camp holdouts coming back into vogue, like we saw in the early 1990s before the advent of rookie-scale contracts, intervention from the league is not always instant when discipline can come from the team first. The onus will be on the Sixers first to impose fines or a suspension."


At a certain point, this is going to distract from the season and Silver is going to be annoyed by it. He probably already is.



Removing a racist team owner with the full support of the league and players is not even remotely analogous to forcing a trade that would generate a precedent that would be unanimously negative from team owners, the people Silver works for. If you can't see that difference, I don't know what to tell you.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 7 

Post#1286 » by Negrodamus » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:29 pm

GutUNC wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
GutUNC wrote:

The problem with tanking was idiots in the media like Wilbon acting like it was a new thing and ripping the team for doing it. That actually did bring negative attention to the league, unlike this Simmons situation. Nationally, no one cares about this as anything other then a soap opera topic.

David Stern veoted the Paul trade. He's dead now. That's not a Silver move.


This is has a bigger interest than any moment during our tanking seasons.

You're right, Stern is gone, now we have a guy who has intervened in team personnel at least as much as Stern in his short time as commissioner, including removed an owner from his team. To say he wouldn't intervene in something like this is really not looking at Silver's body of work.

Here's a comment by Marc Stein back in Sept:

"There is likewise great curiosity about the NBA's potential reaction. Would Commissioner Adam Silver go beyond exerting mere backchannel pressure on Simmons to report and step in to sanction him if he doesn’t? Several league insiders think so, but I’m not so sure. While true that the NBA dreads the idea of training camp holdouts coming back into vogue, like we saw in the early 1990s before the advent of rookie-scale contracts, intervention from the league is not always instant when discipline can come from the team first. The onus will be on the Sixers first to impose fines or a suspension."


At a certain point, this is going to distract from the season and Silver is going to be annoyed by it. He probably already is.



Removing a racist team owner with the full support of the league and players is not even remotely analogous to forcing a trade that would generate a precedent that would be unanimously negative from team owners, the people Silver works for. If you can't see that difference, I don't know what to tell you.

It wasn't intended to be analogous. If you read what I said and comprehended it, the point was to hammer home that Silver has no issue with intervening in something he feels negatively affects the league, which he has shown time and time again.
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Re: Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 7 

Post#1287 » by GutUNC » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:33 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
GutUNC wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
This is has a bigger interest than any moment during our tanking seasons.

You're right, Stern is gone, now we have a guy who has intervened in team personnel at least as much as Stern in his short time as commissioner, including removed an owner from his team. To say he wouldn't intervene in something like this is really not looking at Silver's body of work.

Here's a comment by Marc Stein back in Sept:



At a certain point, this is going to distract from the season and Silver is going to be annoyed by it. He probably already is.



Removing a racist team owner with the full support of the league and players is not even remotely analogous to forcing a trade that would generate a precedent that would be unanimously negative from team owners, the people Silver works for. If you can't see that difference, I don't know what to tell you.

It wasn't intended to be analogous. If you read what I said and comprehended it, the point was to hammer home that Silver has no issue with intervening in something he feels negatively affects the league, which he has shown time and time again.


:lol:

The point being, "intervening" is not a zero sum game. "Intervening" against a racist owner and "intervening" in a way that's directly opposite the owner's interests are polar opposites and not proof of anything you're trying to convey.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1288 » by Madd Squabbles » Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:30 am

Negrodamus wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:Ben Simmons playing with Zion makes ZERO sense.

If NO gets involved its for sure in a 3 team deal.


Fox with Zion would actually be extremely fun to watch.

Build a trade around Ben to Kings, Fox to Pelicans, Ingram to Sixers.

We'd probably have to throw something else to the Kings.


This trade wouldn't help the Pels though. The Pels need 3 point shooting. Ingram is their best volume 3 point shooter. If Fox played with Fox he would have to be used as a rim runner. Not a fit.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1289 » by Sixercise » Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:41 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:I would personally trade Tomjas for nurseryc, I think Tomjas is fool's gold and will only get worse.


What about a time machine trade where we instead get back Dedicated76ersfan, SendEm, RickyPryor and Kevin12? lol
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1290 » by sixers4real » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:09 pm

Omg, thank you for this mods
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1291 » by Kobblehead » Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:09 pm

elchengue20 wrote:Ben Simmons playing with Zion makes ZERO sense.

If NO gets involved its for sure in a 3 team deal.

New Orleans is not in any position to make rational decisions. Their franchise player is a mess that isn't even playing because he's too heavy. Their GM and coach are getting into fights.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1292 » by Foshan » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:15 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:Ben Simmons playing with Zion makes ZERO sense.

If NO gets involved its for sure in a 3 team deal.

New Orleans is not in any position to make rational decisions. Their franchise player is a mess that isn't even playing because he's too heavy. Their GM and coach are getting into fights.

With news that Zion is out until december, i think now is a good time to pitch a ben for zion. since ben isn't really playing for us at all, we can survive until dec waiting anyway... ben/ingram start piling up some wins for the Pels.

While the fit with Zion and Embiid might be tough at times, it might motivate us to move Toby for a guard.

Not sure how the money would work, tho i think it's doable.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1293 » by Negrodamus » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:26 pm

Madd Squabbles wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
elchengue20 wrote:Ben Simmons playing with Zion makes ZERO sense.

If NO gets involved its for sure in a 3 team deal.


Fox with Zion would actually be extremely fun to watch.

Build a trade around Ben to Kings, Fox to Pelicans, Ingram to Sixers.

We'd probably have to throw something else to the Kings.


This trade wouldn't help the Pels though. The Pels need 3 point shooting. Ingram is their best volume 3 point shooter. If Fox played with Fox he would have to be used as a rim runner. Not a fit.


Zion could become an amped up version of Amare Stoudemire who was an MVP candidate at one point. You don’t make, or not make, a trade like this based on the amount of 3pt shooters you have.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1294 » by Murray_17 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:39 pm

Foshan wrote:With news that Zion is out until december, i think now is a good time to pitch a ben for zion. since ben isn't really playing for us at all, we can survive until dec waiting anyway... ben/ingram start piling up some wins for the Pels.

While the fit with Zion and Embiid might be tough at times, it might motivate us to move Toby for a guard.

Not sure how the money would work, tho i think it's doable.



Zion is on a rookie contract, the Pels would need to send us another max or several players to match.

Zion for Simmons would be a colateral move because it would let us in a similar position with two or 3 players we would need to trade, Zion who also it's a bad fit around Embiid and still capped.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1295 » by elchengue20 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:05 pm

Zion here makes zero sense too, even worse fit with Embiid than Simmons.

Also Pels wont trade him this soon, they rather tank this season than trade him.

Aint happening, there is no point in keep debating about this.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1296 » by Bum Adebayo » Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:14 pm

Zion with Embiid wouldn't be fair for the league, also a healthy and in-shape Zion will undoubtedly be a better player than Embiid, we are talking about a top 10 all-time player here, only if in-shape and motivated of course. I don't care about the fit at all, the problem with Simmons is not just the fit, it's that Bum Simmons sucks. With talents as good as Embiid and especially Zion you would make it work.
The problem is not the fit, the problem is that you are not getting Zion even if you trade the whole team.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1297 » by Kobblehead » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:13 pm

I wouldn't want Zion.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1298 » by DCasey91 » Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:23 pm

I would. Zion + Embiid + Shooters/Ballhandlers F that no one is stopping those two behemoths.
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1299 » by Tomjas » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:28 am

Going to post this here rather than risk getting banned

Reggie Miller & Charles Barkley said the quiet stuff out aloud tonight

Pros know because they have been in these situations themselves
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Re: The Tomjas Thread 

Post#1300 » by Eyeamok » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:24 pm

Tomjas wrote:Going to post this here rather than risk getting banned

Reggie Miller & Charles Barkley said the quiet stuff out aloud tonight

Pros know because they have been in these situations themselves


One week Charles is like "Philly will tade him when they trade him!" now it's like just get it over with. Charles does not have the stomach for the long haul.
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