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Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho

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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#581 » by Wilfried » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:16 pm

Negrodamus wrote:but he's a great role player; not someone to build around.


You mean, like Ben ?
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#582 » by Negrodamus » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:30 pm

Wilfried wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:but he's a great role player; not someone to build around.


You mean, like Ben ?


Correct.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#583 » by thenbaman » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:51 pm

Madd Squabbles wrote:Got this from the Kings board. Thought it was interesting:

To be honest I think both Hali and Mitchell are better PGs. They aren't better players, but they both run the team better than Fox.
The biggest thing for Hali is to start shooting the damn ball. If you are going to let defenders go under all the time it makes it so much easier to defend. Teams don't need to go over the screen against both Hali and Fox, for different reasons.

Actually, I can't think of another team where defenders go under the screen as much as against the Kings.

After watching the kings game i would do a hard pass on dealing with them,no player they have is worth
the sitting ben simmons and that's saying a lot.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#584 » by thenbaman » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:54 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:Bum Simmons himself is not a difference maker, so why do you expect a difference maker in return for him? what you are trying to do is to fleece the other team.

Well yea. :nod:
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#585 » by Mik317 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:39 pm

Hali really is Lonzo without the loud dad. Good player but one who's true value shines on a good team like Lonzo finally is w/ the Bulls. Those players are very valuable but cannot make poop shine. Draymond is another one who looked terribad at times in the past two seasons as the Warriors were depleted.

the problem is that while Hali would help this team...we also have a bunch of dudes who are like that now...who are being over stretched as the big potato sits out. This covid thing is out of his control but ...he will miss games. Which is why getting more high level role players don't fully help at this stage.

This team biggest issue in the playoffs isn't just the end of game thing..which does suck but the fact that the whole team just dies when Biid sits. This is the issue for a lot of teams. But Giannis was able to rest thanks to Middleton randomly becoming prime Jordan at times lol. Bron could seemingly solo teams but only won his chips thanks to Wade, Kyrie, and AD to occasionally carry the load. Steph has hit walls in the playoffs often...but thanks to Game 6 Klay, Iggy going nuts randomly and of course Snake Boy KD...he has rangz. Our situation is weirder because Biid is a mammoth of a man so he can't just play 46 mins even if he was in the best possible shape and he is a center no matter how much he desperately wants to be Cameroonian KD. That is why Ben not progressing as a scorer (note not shooter) and Fultz deciding to be Dave Mirra (RIP) and **** his shoulder up continues to be the biggest turning points. JUST ONE of those things going our way makes all of this so much easier lol. Maxey has been a nice find but the timeline is all mixed up and he generally hasn't had this type of success with the big oaf either....so who knows if thats real.

That being said...there are worse deals than taking a flyer on a Haliburton tho. Maybe the stink of the Kings is holding him back or something lol...or at the very least he would be a perfect Danny Green replacement. idk. **** weird
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#586 » by Bum Adebayo » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:54 pm

It's important to understand, when I say that Simmons is not a difference maker (in playoffs at least), I'm not saying he doesn't have sky-high potential. So it could make sense to trade for him if some other team thinks can fix him, just not on the basis of his actual on-court performance.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#587 » by Sixerscan » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:14 pm

Simmons has been a difference maker in playoff games, just not when he refuses to touch the basketball because he's afraid to shoot free throws. Game 6 of the Raptors series and Game 4 of the Hawks series are two examples, as well as a handful of first round games including several that Embiid didn't play in.

Does he have a million examples? No, but he certainly has more than Brandon Ingram or De'Aaron Fox or various other guys that we are talking about trading him for.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#588 » by freshie2 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:09 pm

Maxey changes the narrates bit for me. Simmons for Ingram, Brown, Barnes+Hield are all roster upgrades and worth considering. A healthy 5 including one of those at the 3 is a serious contender in the east.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#589 » by Kobblehead » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:10 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:It's important to understand, when I say that Simmons is not a difference maker (in playoffs at least), I'm not saying he doesn't have sky-high potential. So it could make sense to trade for him if some other team thinks can fix him, just not on the basis of his actual on-court performance.

I agree that he's not a difference maker in the playoffs. His playoff career is that of a MLE player. I disagree that he has sky-high potential, though. Guys with actual potential flash exponential growth. Simmons' development trajectory has been flatlined since Montverde. He's literally the same player he was 6 years ago.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#590 » by Bum Adebayo » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:02 am

Kobblehead wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:It's important to understand, when I say that Simmons is not a difference maker (in playoffs at least), I'm not saying he doesn't have sky-high potential. So it could make sense to trade for him if some other team thinks can fix him, just not on the basis of his actual on-court performance.

I agree that he's not a difference maker in the playoffs. His playoff career is that of a MLE player. I disagree that he has sky-high potential, though. Guys with actual potential flash exponential growth. Simmons' development trajectory has been flatlined since Montverde. He's literally the same player he was 6 years ago.


It's potential that won't be realized because he is lazy and doesn't want to improve, how is this hard to understand? the guys that show a good rate of improvement is because they work hard, whe I say high potential I mean in relation to his talent, if he wanted he would be much better than he is now, whereas many other guys can't say the same because their innate talent is what it is.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#591 » by kuclas » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:16 am

Pretty obvious teams like the kings would rather be bad and not trade for Simmons.

No team is willing to give up any assets for Simmons of any value to help the sixers win games down the stretch. Just role players and draft picks

So if Simmons doesn’t want to show up. He’s gonna to sit out the entire season and lose a ton of money.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#592 » by Tomjas » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:20 am

Bum Adebayo wrote:
Kobblehead wrote:
Bum Adebayo wrote:It's important to understand, when I say that Simmons is not a difference maker (in playoffs at least), I'm not saying he doesn't have sky-high potential. So it could make sense to trade for him if some other team thinks can fix him, just not on the basis of his actual on-court performance.

I agree that he's not a difference maker in the playoffs. His playoff career is that of a MLE player. I disagree that he has sky-high potential, though. Guys with actual potential flash exponential growth. Simmons' development trajectory has been flatlined since Montverde. He's literally the same player he was 6 years ago.


It's potential that won't be realized because he is lazy and doesn't want to improve, how is this hard to understand? the guys that show a good rate of improvement is because they work hard, whe I say high potential I mean in relation to his talent, if he wanted he would be much better than he is now, whereas many other guys can't say the same because their innate talent is what it is.


Pretty obvious that you don’t know what you’re talking about

You simply can’t play defence like he does unless you put a massive amount of work in

He’s got a mental issue when it comes to shooting

That’s got nothing to do with work ethic
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#593 » by SixthStreet » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:29 am

kuclas wrote:Pretty obvious teams like the kings would rather be bad and not trade for Simmons.

No team is willing to give up any assets for Simmons of any value to help the sixers win games down the stretch. Just role players and draft picks

So if Simmons doesn’t want to show up. He’s gonna to sit out the entire season and lose a ton of money.


I think we are getting to the point in the season that someone would trade for Simmons precisely because they have cover to ice him for the rest of the season for mental illness and further a one season tank job.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#594 » by kuclas » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:36 am

SixthStreet wrote:
kuclas wrote:Pretty obvious teams like the kings would rather be bad and not trade for Simmons.

No team is willing to give up any assets for Simmons of any value to help the sixers win games down the stretch. Just role players and draft picks

So if Simmons doesn’t want to show up. He’s gonna to sit out the entire season and lose a ton of money.


I think we are getting to the point in the season that someone would trade for Simmons precisely because they have cover to ice him for the rest of the season for mental illness and further a one season tank job.


Of course any team will take a flyer on Simmons for the same low ball price (aka as long as trades involve no core players like Boston probably said take Marcus smart and a couple of lightly top 15 protected draft picks )

Same with kings. Take anyone outside of fox and Haliburton and Minnesota. Anyone but towns and Edwards.

It’s like sixers offering anyone on their team outside of embiid and Simmons.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#595 » by Madd Squabbles » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:02 am

What do you think of this trade:

Sixers get - Hield, Barnes, Bagley, Mitchell, and top 2 protected FRP

Kings get - Simmons, Harris, and Shake

Maxey - Mitchell
Hield - Curry
Green - Thybulle
Barnes - Niang
Embiid - Drummond
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#596 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:23 am

The barber dude that cuts my kids hair is a Celtics fan. Super cool guy! We were talking Ben Simmons the other day. From the casual fans perspective (which is what he is), he basically said that he would give up Schroeder and filler for Ben Simmons. Not even Marcus Smart was on the table. Again, he's just a casual fan like myself, but I really couldn't believe that was all he said he would personally offer. I didn't want to take the conversation any further after that and I kept everything cool and casual. I think his value is somewhere in between what the casual fan thinks and what Daryl Morey expects to get. So we are talking role players and picks at this point.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#597 » by stormi » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:27 am

Madd Squabbles wrote:What do you think of this trade:

Sixers get - Hield, Barnes, Bagley, Mitchell, and top 2 protected FRP

Kings get - Simmons, Harris, and Shake

Maxey - Mitchell
Hield - Curry
Green - Thybulle
Barnes - Niang
Embiid - Drummond


Nothing enticing in that package besides the frp and it has a restriction on it.

Wouldn't entertain this offer for a second.
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#598 » by Mik317 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:35 am

the GM who trades the farm or close to it for Simmons will be betting their career on him turning it around and figuring things out. The GM who gets him for "cheap" not so much.

so I get the gunshy aspect of it. Giving up the farm for Dame or Harden and they bust...you will get clowned on in retrospect but most would take that risk. This is why teams like the Kings, Pels, and Wolves are interesting as they have GMs at the end of their ropes or trying to prove themselves. Basically we need to find the Elton Brand style YOLO GMs. I don't think thats out there tho...and to Eltons credit...Jimmy and Tobias are who they are...Ben not so much so despite the accolades. Lets say this mental stuff is real and never gets better...you are talking about a dude who will be out of the league in that case.

all that and the fact is Morey is a jerk and no one wants to have him "win". **** tricky
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#599 » by Kobblehead » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:52 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:The barber dude that cuts my kids hair is a Celtics fan. Super cool guy! We were talking Ben Simmons the other day. From the casual fans perspective (which is what he is), he basically said that he would give up Schroeder and filler for Ben Simmons. Not even Marcus Smart was on the table. Again, he's just a casual fan like myself, but I really couldn't believe that was all he said he would personally offer. I didn't want to take the conversation any further after that and I kept everything cool and casual. I think his value is somewhere in between what the casual fan thinks and what Daryl Morey expects to get. So we are talking role players and picks at this point.

Yikes, I didn't know Danny Ainge cut hair!
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Re: Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho 

Post#600 » by 76ciology » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:25 am

Nobody is willing to give more value than to receive it. That is even if you trade Embiid. You’re not getting someone like Luka. You’ll likely get someone like Deandre Ayton and 4 first round picks.

Much more with a guy like Ben. So in the end, it’s all about gambling and making bets. If you want to end up with more value, then you have to more risks.

So IMO..

if you want to play safe then there are very possibly guys like Schroeder or Dejounte who you can easily trade for one now.

If you want to take risks, then you have to make a trade for an average guy who has utility on your team and a couple of picks for you to take your chances at.

I dont think you can get guys like Lillard, until Lillard gets into 2020-2021 Kyle Lowry level when he gets too old that a team is just wanting to get something for him.

And if Blazers opts to trade for Lillard, there are a lot of teams who can make better offers than us. Such as the Celtics or Pelicans.

With regards to making deals when you take risks, I do think it would be best to make them near the deadline when you can have a better projection on the value of those picks.

In the end, I think our likely scenario is we trade Ben for an average player with great utility on our team and 2-3 picks/pick swap.
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