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Maxey and Embiid?

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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#21 » by 76ciology » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:13 am

phillynative wrote:He's more louwill than Tony parker


Tony Parker = high FG%
Lou Will = high FTr

He’s more like TP.

But he can be better because he has some Lou Will’s shooting in his game.

Oh, and definitely better than our insane young talent ex-starting PG
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#22 » by ExplosionsInDaSky » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:22 pm

I've been saying this too...Maxey is very similar to Tony Parker/Lou Williams. He has similar traits to both of those players. I'm not going to complain at all about that if that is what his ceiling is. Both Parker and Williams were vastly underrated with how good they were in their prime years.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#23 » by Murray_17 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:32 pm

I think the real problem is not the fit of Maxey with Joel but how to mesh those two with Tobias.

Not even the most optimist among us though Maxey would be playing at this level this early, and with how he has played without Embiid out there i think the question should be "why are we not using him as our first scoring option right now?", there are a lot of possible answers to this, among them "is still too early" but one of them is also "because Tobias is our first scoring option without Embiid".

The real question, if Maxey mantains this level, is how we make him our second option without hurting Tobias or how we explain Tobias that he is the third or even the fourth option (If Seth's doing fine).

Logically the answer would be: trade Tobias. But we know that's almost impossible lol.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#24 » by Zumramania » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:58 pm

I think Morey will trade Tobias after he trades Ben, especially if he does it at the end of this season, because Tobi will be more tradeable then. I understand this, but I would really like to see this team breathe without Tobias, I think they could be surprisingly good with a healthy Embiid (like maybe ECF), even without a Ben replacement.

I also wonder how much will Tobi get for his next contract. Fun fact: this is already his fourth season with us, and if he stays a while longer this season we will be the team he's played the most career games for (currently this is Orlando). So depressing haha.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#25 » by mjkvol » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:50 am

Murray_17 wrote:I think the real problem is not the fit of Maxey with Joel but how to mesh those two with Tobias.

Not even the most optimist among us though Maxey would be playing at this level this early, and with how he has played without Embiid out there i think the question should be "why are we not using him as our first scoring option right now?", there are a lot of possible answers to this, among them "is still too early" but one of them is also "because Tobias is our first scoring option without Embiid".

The real question, if Maxey mantains this level, is how we make him our second option without hurting Tobias or how we explain Tobias that he is the third or even the fourth option (If Seth's doing fine).

Logically the answer would be: trade Tobias. But we know that's almost impossible lol.


When (and if) everyone gets healthy, that's going to be an issue, because the way Maxey is gaining confidence and improving, how on earth do you sell Harris as a 'second option'? This group has moved beyond the static iso, pound away game that defines Harris, so how does Rivers deal with that issue?

As you said, the logical answer is to move Tobias at the deadline, but I don't see that happening.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#26 » by DCasey91 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:08 am

Get Ben back put Harris to the bench and run this:

Maxey
Green
Niang
Simmons
Embiid

Can even put Curry/Kork instead of Niang.

That setup has to me is the team to go far.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#27 » by Eyeamok » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:02 pm

DCasey91 wrote:Get Ben back put Harris to the bench and run this:

Maxey
Green
Niang
Harris
Embiid

Can even put Curry/Kork instead of Niang.

That setup has to me is the team to go far.


How are you getting Ben back? And where is he on your starting 5 ? I'm not quite sure but I think you are doing this wrong.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#28 » by Sixerscan » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:23 pm

mjkvol wrote:
Murray_17 wrote:I think the real problem is not the fit of Maxey with Joel but how to mesh those two with Tobias.

Not even the most optimist among us though Maxey would be playing at this level this early, and with how he has played without Embiid out there i think the question should be "why are we not using him as our first scoring option right now?", there are a lot of possible answers to this, among them "is still too early" but one of them is also "because Tobias is our first scoring option without Embiid".

The real question, if Maxey mantains this level, is how we make him our second option without hurting Tobias or how we explain Tobias that he is the third or even the fourth option (If Seth's doing fine).

Logically the answer would be: trade Tobias. But we know that's almost impossible lol.


When (and if) everyone gets healthy, that's going to be an issue, because the way Maxey is gaining confidence and improving, how on earth do you sell Harris as a 'second option'? This group has moved beyond the static iso, pound away game that defines Harris, so how does Rivers deal with that issue?

As you said, the logical answer is to move Tobias at the deadline, but I don't see that happening.


I don't think Tobias is the kind of guy that would raise a huge stink if you asked him to take less of a role. He's a level headed guy that's gotten paid already. I also don't get this idea that Tobias is useless when he doesn't have the ball constantly. No one is ignoring Tobias Harris standing wide open at the 3 point line without the ball. He's a good cutter and great in transition.

Anyway, the Sixers are hardly the first team to ever have more than 2 capable scorers on their roster. The way you address this is to get away from doing the bench mob stuff, and split the starters up more, giving both Maxey and Harris time to be the first option or second option if Embiid is out there. And maybe part of this is Embiid can have his usage rate drop slightly so he can be more dominant on defense and have more energy at the end of the game.

Longer term you might want to move Harris (like Zumramania said, he gets more tradeable as his contract gets shorter), but I don't think it's something that needs to happen this year.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#29 » by mjkvol » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:51 pm

Sixerscan wrote:
mjkvol wrote:
Murray_17 wrote:I think the real problem is not the fit of Maxey with Joel but how to mesh those two with Tobias.

Not even the most optimist among us though Maxey would be playing at this level this early, and with how he has played without Embiid out there i think the question should be "why are we not using him as our first scoring option right now?", there are a lot of possible answers to this, among them "is still too early" but one of them is also "because Tobias is our first scoring option without Embiid".

The real question, if Maxey mantains this level, is how we make him our second option without hurting Tobias or how we explain Tobias that he is the third or even the fourth option (If Seth's doing fine).

Logically the answer would be: trade Tobias. But we know that's almost impossible lol.


When (and if) everyone gets healthy, that's going to be an issue, because the way Maxey is gaining confidence and improving, how on earth do you sell Harris as a 'second option'? This group has moved beyond the static iso, pound away game that defines Harris, so how does Rivers deal with that issue?

As you said, the logical answer is to move Tobias at the deadline, but I don't see that happening.


I don't think Tobias is the kind of guy that would raise a huge stink if you asked him to take less of a role. He's a level headed guy that's gotten paid already. I also don't get this idea that Tobias is useless when he doesn't have the ball constantly. No one is ignoring Tobias Harris standing wide open at the 3 point line without the ball. He's a good cutter and great in transition.

Anyway, the Sixers are hardly the first team to ever have more than 2 capable scorers on their roster. The way you address this is to get away from doing the bench mob stuff, and split the starters up more, giving both Maxey and Harris time to be the first option or second option if Embiid is out there. And maybe part of this is Embiid can have his usage rate drop slightly so he can be more dominant on defense and have more energy at the end of the game.

Longer term you might want to move Harris (like Zumramania said, he gets more tradeable as his contract gets shorter), but I don't think it's something that needs to happen this year.


Very good points, and trading him this year was always going to be unlikely anyway. This year we are pretty much what we are, unless Morey is able to deliver a trade deadline surprise. My concern is less with Tobias actually and more with Doc, who clearly loves him - it's hard to imagine Doc relegating Harris to a lesser role. We'll see.

Moving forward, it's essential that Tobias is moved and that chunk of the cap is spent on players that will better fit this Embiid-Maxey based paradigm.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#30 » by 76ciology » Wed Dec 1, 2021 6:12 am

Maxey spots he likes to operate

-Upper left three point arc (similar fave spot of LeBron)
-Right elbow mid range


Biid spots he likes to operate

-Left baseline (fave post position)
-Top of the key (dirk-ish spot)


What I noticed is in crunch time we run left PnR with Maxey goinf to the upper left three point arc and Biid going to left baseline. Or they run right side PnR with Maxey going to right elbow then Biid popping to top of the key (Wolves game and Bulls game).

Maxey drives heavy to the right or pull up at right elbow.

If Maxey is forced left, he settles a lot on shooting 3 on upper left, left baseline or floaters.

Both Maxey and Biid are good at scoring at both left and right baselines.

Its a work in progress.

If we need a 3, Maxey likes to shoot at upper left side of the arc, while Embiid likes to shoot at the upper right side of the arc and top of the key.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#31 » by 76ciology » Yesterday 5:52 am

Maxey thrives in a chaotic system. Constant dribble drive until there’s an opening for him to score.

Embiid needs a simple off ball action then if denied, he wants the ball for a 1v1 with enough time on the shotclock.

You get it?

This is why Seth is a better fit than Maxey with Embiid. This is also why Milton starting and Maxey off the bench is not that ridiculous

But Maxey has to or can end games with Biid. Maxey just can’t or is hard for him to score in volume with Embiid IMO.

You look at how we end games with both Maxey and Biid. Maxey runs 2 man game with Biid, big denies his path. He then kick it to Biid, where Biid’s man recovers. This allows Maxey to have a better passing lane to Biid. When they get involve in a two man game. Most times down the stretch, Maxey can’t get a good look so it turns into just a set-up for Embiid for a 1v1.

Maxey needs more than just a screen action to get into good scoring opportunity. He needs a screen action after screen action to get that opportunity.

Maxey is neither and I dont see will be as good as CP3, Donovan Mitchell or Lillard.

Maxey is more like a bigger Ty Lawson or Tony Parker.
He is not THE answer.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#32 » by phillynative » Yesterday 9:39 am

76ciology wrote:Maxey thrives in a chaotic system. Constant dribble drive until there’s an opening for him to score.

Embiid needs a simple off ball action then if denied, he wants the ball for a 1v1 with enough time on the shotclock.

You get it?

This is why Seth is a better fit than Maxey with Embiid. This is also why Milton starting and Maxey off the bench is not that ridiculous

But Maxey has to or can end games with Biid. Maxey just can’t or is hard for him to score in volume with Embiid IMO.

You look at how we end games with both Maxey and Biid. Maxey runs 2 man game with Biid, big denies his path. He then kick it to Biid, where Biid’s man recovers. This allows Maxey to have a better passing lane to Biid. When they get involve in a two man game. Most times down the stretch, Maxey can’t get a good look so it turns into just a set-up for Embiid for a 1v1.

Maxey needs more than just a screen action to get into good scoring opportunity. He needs a screen action after screen action to get that opportunity.

Maxey is neither and I dont see will be as good as CP3, Donovan Mitchell or Lillard.

Maxey is more like a bigger Ty Lawson or Tony Parker.
He is not THE answer.


His game is mostly straight line drIves, with a close shot rather its a floater, pull up or awkward layup. He doesn't probe the defense nor does he have the vision to be a consistent drive and dish guy. He and Tobias want to get to the same spots on offense and Maxey defers to a fault which leaves the offense stagnant.
Neither Maxey or Shake are ideal starters. Shake is another player that cannot turn the corner on offense and pairing that with Green, Tobi, Seth could be brutal but he at least has more play making ability, more size to defend twos and have no problem taking open 3's. You have to give it a try because the offense has looked brutal.

You bring Maxey as a first option off the bench , paired with Furk(Isaiah joe), Matisse , Niang and Drummond. He has no one to defer to and can continue to develop and work on his game while being the young Louwill type that he is.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#33 » by Tomjas » Yesterday 11:22 am

Tyrese is a tiny, late first round pick

Joel & Ben are massive humans and top 3 picks

World of difference

Do the math
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#34 » by Bum Adebayo » Yesterday 12:05 pm

Yeah as if Ben is as good as Joel, they are worlds apart, good try though.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#35 » by PhillyNj » Yesterday 12:12 pm

phillynative wrote:He's more louwill than Tony parker

Dead wrong. Lou was/is a high volume scorer.
Maxey is a much better shooter and way faster player than Lou ever was.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#36 » by DCasey91 » Yesterday 12:12 pm

Buy Embiid led offense in the end at your own expense it’s not what you want.

Better suited for the ball to be simplified to a person who is more secure in the closing stages of the game.

I mean there’s more than enough evidence to suggest all three are less effective the longer the game goes on.

Anyway this is all for nought we have probably 3 years left either ride it until the wheels fall off which is going to anyway or start again when the time is right.

Just don’t be doing what we’ve done this year it’s poor across the board and directionless.

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I still don’t how anyone there has skulls with the amount of head banging into the wall doing the same thing over and over again for years.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#37 » by phillynative » Yesterday 1:39 pm

PhillyNj wrote:
phillynative wrote:He's more louwill than Tony parker

Dead wrong. Lou was/is a high volume scorer.
Maxey is a mAuch better shooter and way faster player than Lou ever was.


He's definitely more louwill small explosive 2 guard than Tony who was high level playmaker

I literally mean role on a team not style of play but you can die on that hill if you like
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#38 » by 76ciology » Yesterday 2:59 pm

Right now, not Tony Parker but Ty Lawson.
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#39 » by phillynative » Yesterday 3:07 pm

76ciology wrote:Right now, not Tony Parker but Ty Lawson.
Struggle more, Johnny Flynn.


:lol: Bro
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Re: Maxey and Embiid? 

Post#40 » by HotelVitale » Yesterday 3:32 pm

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:I've been saying this too...Maxey is very similar to Tony Parker/Lou Williams. He has similar traits to both of those players. I'm not going to complain at all about that if that is what his ceiling is. Both Parker and Williams were vastly underrated with how good they were in their prime years.


I dunno, who cares what players you can squint at to sort of see some vague similarities? Maxey obviously isn't a carbon copy of either--he relies way more on pure foot speed than either, to give just one example--and even if his game were a pretty close comparison to Lou Will's that doesn't tell us at all how good he is that role. I don't know, once we've seen hundreds of minutes of a player I don't get why we're still looking for comparisons--we know who this player is and what types of situations he can create or take advantage of, and we know what sort of things he'll have to do to turn that into a sustainable starting-quality NBA game. Just feels totally irrelevant to keep looking at other players at this point.

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