Welcome James Harden!

[FlyingArrow]

Not if he wants to go to a contender like Phoenix. We have to play ball. That may be the best outcome.

The thing is Phoenix is not better than Philly lol

I agree but that seems like his only other "contending" option. But there Durant and Booker need the ball, whereas here it's only Embiid. Doesn't appear to be what he wants.

According to the Capulator, Phoenix can't sign him anyway. Durant + Booker + Ayton + Shamet + $15m guaranteed to Paul even if he is waived = over the cap. They would have to do a sign & trade with us to get Harden. Houston could sign him outright, but I don't understand why they would, or why he would want to go there.

[Magicman125]

Ok...So he's declining his option for next season. **** about to get real here.

The way I read the part of the quote where he said "Basketball Freedom to be himself" means he wants heliocentric offense again with 4 shooters to dish to like he had in Houston. His postgame comments after game 1 of the Celtics series were similar saying he was sacrificing in Philly because it's Embiid's team and the offense runs through him and he can do that, but he was happy to be allowed to play his game in game 1 or something akin to that. I think he moves on. Only question to me is if Morey can manage an S&T to get something of value back for him.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

Ok...So he's declining his option for next season. **** about to get real here.

The way I read the part of the quote where he said "Basketball Freedom to be himself" means he wants heliocentric offense again with 4 shooters to dish to like he had in Houston. His postgame comments after game 1 of the Celtics series were similar saying he was sacrificing in Philly because it's Embiid's team and the offense runs through him and he can do that, but he was happy to be allowed to play his game in game 1 or something akin to that. I think he moves on. Only question to me is if Morey can manage an S&T to get something of value back for him.

Yeah I think he moves on as well

[FlyingArrow]

Real talk: what contract would you offer Harden?

$1 more than he'd get elsewhere?

Unfortunately, Harden is no longer worthy of a max contract. Money-wise, all the 'value' players are max players who are actually worth way more than the max or rookies on contracts that underpay them. By comparison, all other veterans are overpriced. Harden may actually get the max.

I think he's worth anywhere from $25-35m this year, and declining value going forward. Unfortunately, if we don't pay him the $35m (high end of what he's worth), we can't spend that $35m on anyone else anyway. So I'd probably start at $35m, and then have max depreciation each year for 4 years. Or add a 5th year while adding another $15m to the total value of the contract. 5th year as a player option.

4yrs/$124.7m
23-24: $35.4m (age 34)
24-25: $32.6m (age 35)
25-26: $29.7m (age 36)
26-27: $26.9m (age 37)

OR

5yrs/$139.3m
23-24: $33.2m
24-25: $30.5m
25-26: $27.8m
26-27: $25.2m
27-28: $22.5m (player option - age 38 season)

That feels a bit high to me, but I don't think it's an unmovable contract if things go bad here and we decide to blow it up. I think a 'fair' price would be about $5m less per year. At $10m less per year I'd be really happy to have him back. But we're in a bad spot. I think we'd have to either pay numbers like what's above or watch him walk somewhere else.

And it's possible that I'm way off and he'd actually merit a max contract. That sounds crazy, though.

[rocketsfan100]

Ok...So he's declining his option for next season. **** about to get real here.

The way I read the part of the quote where he said "Basketball Freedom to be himself" means he wants heliocentric offense again with 4 shooters to dish to like he had in Houston. His postgame comments after game 1 of the Celtics series were similar saying he was sacrificing in Philly because it's Embiid's team and the offense runs through him and he can do that, but he was happy to be allowed to play his game in game 1 or something akin to that. I think he moves on. Only question to me is if Morey can manage an S&T to get something of value back for him.

If he opts out I doubt the teams can do a sign and trade? Especially if he gets north of 40 million per year. I don’t see how the salaries will work as Houston does not have players on big annual salaries. Three team trade or if Harden opts to sign with another team outside of Houston.

[Magicman125]

Ok...So he's declining his option for next season. **** about to get real here.

The way I read the part of the quote where he said "Basketball Freedom to be himself" means he wants heliocentric offense again with 4 shooters to dish to like he had in Houston. His postgame comments after game 1 of the Celtics series were similar saying he was sacrificing in Philly because it's Embiid's team and the offense runs through him and he can do that, but he was happy to be allowed to play his game in game 1 or something akin to that. I think he moves on. Only question to me is if Morey can manage an S&T to get something of value back for him.

If he opts out I doubt the teams can do a sign and trade? Especially if he gets north of 40 million per year. I don’t see how the salaries will work as Houston does not have players on big annual salaries. Three team trade or if Harden opts to sign with another team outside of Houston.

Doesn't seem super likely, but Morey and Harden are buds, who knows. I just don't want to see Philly lose HArden for nothing because that makes the situation really hard from an asset perspective for them to make moves. Basically only have Tobias's expiring and Maxey to trade in that scenario.

[FlyingArrow]

Ok...So he's declining his option for next season. **** about to get real here.

The way I read the part of the quote where he said "Basketball Freedom to be himself" means he wants heliocentric offense again with 4 shooters to dish to like he had in Houston. His postgame comments after game 1 of the Celtics series were similar saying he was sacrificing in Philly because it's Embiid's team and the offense runs through him and he can do that, but he was happy to be allowed to play his game in game 1 or something akin to that. I think he moves on. Only question to me is if Morey can manage an S&T to get something of value back for him.

If he opts out I doubt the teams can do a sign and trade? Especially if he gets north of 40 million per year. I don’t see how the salaries will work as Houston does not have players on big annual salaries. Three team trade or if Harden opts to sign with another team outside of Houston.

Houston doesn't have to match salaries because they can absorb Harden into cap space.

Phoenix would probably send us Chris Paul, which would probably be a pretty terrible match with Maxey in the backcourt. Maybe Ayton instead.

[rocketsfan100]

Ok...So he's declining his option for next season. **** about to get real here.

The way I read the part of the quote where he said "Basketball Freedom to be himself" means he wants heliocentric offense again with 4 shooters to dish to like he had in Houston. His postgame comments after game 1 of the Celtics series were similar saying he was sacrificing in Philly because it's Embiid's team and the offense runs through him and he can do that, but he was happy to be allowed to play his game in game 1 or something akin to that. I think he moves on. Only question to me is if Morey can manage an S&T to get something of value back for him.

If he opts out I doubt the teams can do a sign and trade? Especially if he gets north of 40 million per year. I don’t see how the salaries will work as Houston does not have players on big annual salaries. Three team trade or if Harden opts to sign with another team outside of Houston.

Yes Houston will just sign him outright . That pretty much guarantees nothing in return but it is in both parties interest to do some kind of sign and trade so the rockets get to keep some of their capspace to sign auxiliary pieces and Philly gets something in return. TPE or a few players

[rocketsfan100]

The way I read the part of the quote where he said "Basketball Freedom to be himself" means he wants heliocentric offense again with 4 shooters to dish to like he had in Houston. His postgame comments after game 1 of the Celtics series were similar saying he was sacrificing in Philly because it's Embiid's team and the offense runs through him and he can do that, but he was happy to be allowed to play his game in game 1 or something akin to that. I think he moves on. Only question to me is if Morey can manage an S&T to get something of value back for him.

If he opts out I doubt the teams can do a sign and trade? Especially if he gets north of 40 million per year. I don’t see how the salaries will work as Houston does not have players on big annual salaries. Three team trade or if Harden opts to sign with another team outside of Houston.

Houston doesn't have to match salaries because they can absorb Harden into cap space.

Phoenix would probably send us Chris Paul, which would probably be a pretty terrible match with Maxey in the backcourt. Maybe Ayton instead.

Ayton and Embiid? Makes no sense. Unless it’s a third team. Ayton goes to Dallas, Kyrie to Philadelphia and Harden to Phoenix.

Later Phoenix can send Paul to another team separately and get another piece like a big to replace Ayton. Zubac from the Clippers for Paul?

[Decipher]

Ok...So he's declining his option for next season. **** about to get real here.

The way I read the part of the quote where he said "Basketball Freedom to be himself" means he wants heliocentric offense again with 4 shooters to dish to like he had in Houston. His postgame comments after game 1 of the Celtics series were similar saying he was sacrificing in Philly because it's Embiid's team and the offense runs through him and he can do that, but he was happy to be allowed to play his game in game 1 or something akin to that. I think he moves on. Only question to me is if Morey can manage an S&T to get something of value back for him.

Yeah I think he moves on as well

I am a Nets fan but have no beef with Harden

He allegedly wanted Doc gone and Morey fired him

He allegedly wants a 4 year deal and Morey will probably have to offer it

However, even that might not be enough without changes to the gameplan to his liking

Keep in mind that Harden has already forced 2 trades while under contract so there’s nothing to stop him from walking unless he gets what he wants and particularly as he might believe that the Sixers owe him for taking a discount

[FlyingArrow]

If he opts out I doubt the teams can do a sign and trade? Especially if he gets north of 40 million per year. I don’t see how the salaries will work as Houston does not have players on big annual salaries. Three team trade or if Harden opts to sign with another team outside of Houston.

Houston doesn't have to match salaries because they can absorb Harden into cap space.

Phoenix would probably send us Chris Paul, which would probably be a pretty terrible match with Maxey in the backcourt. Maybe Ayton instead.

Ayton and Embiid? Makes no sense. Unless it’s a third team. Ayton goes to Dallas, Kyrie to Philadelphia and Harden to Phoenix.

Later Phoenix can send Paul to another team separately and get another piece like a big to replace Ayton. Zubac from the Clippers for Paul?

I was just mentioning ways the Suns could match salaries.

Ayton playing next to Embiid doesn't make a ton of sense, but we've traditionally lost the non-Embiid minutes by a lot. Ayton would be a better backup than most of our previous options. And it's not like we didn't have a $30m backup for Embiid once before... not that it worked for us.

But, yeah, if Harden goes to Phoenix and it's Ayton to match salaries, then Ayton probably goes to a 3rd team.

[Decipher]

As an outsider, I find the treatment of Embiid a bit perplexing

He’s the MVP, undisputed team number 1 and the face of the franchise yet Morey is sacking coaches and making trades without his approval/knowledge

It’s very easy to say that he’s just an employee and needs to suck it up but we all know that it’s rarely how it works when dealing with superstars

[rocketsfan100]

Houston doesn't have to match salaries because they can absorb Harden into cap space.

Phoenix would probably send us Chris Paul, which would probably be a pretty terrible match with Maxey in the backcourt. Maybe Ayton instead.

Ayton and Embiid? Makes no sense. Unless it’s a third team. Ayton goes to Dallas, Kyrie to Philadelphia and Harden to Phoenix.

Later Phoenix can send Paul to another team separately and get another piece like a big to replace Ayton. Zubac from the Clippers for Paul?

I was just mentioning ways the Suns could match salaries.

Ayton playing next to Embiid doesn't make a ton of sense, but we've traditionally lost the non-Embiid minutes by a lot. Ayton would be a better backup than most of our previous options. And it's not like we didn't have a $30m backup for Embiid once before... not that it worked for us.

Dallas has long been enamoured with Ayton as a lot of rumours have suggested so maybe they will do a three team trade

Ayton to Dallas
Kyrie to Philadelphia
Harden to Phoenix

Seperate deal
Paul to the Clippers who seem to be interested
Zubac to Phoenix


Phoenix

Harden
Booker
KD
Craig
Zubac

Philly

Kyrie
Maxey
Tobias
Tucker
Embiid

Dallas
Luka
Bullock
Hardaway
?
Ayton

Clippers

Paul
George
Kawhi
Morris
?

[FlyingArrow]

I don't think Kyrie works next to Maxey. Maxey should play next to a big point guard for defensive reasons. Harden is kind of ideal in that regard. But the other tall point guards are young all-stars who aren't likely to be obtainable. Shai, LaMelo, Haliburton.

[Jay555]

I don't think Kyrie works next to Maxey. Maxey should play next to a big point guard for defensive reasons. Harden is kind of ideal in that regard. But the other tall point guards are young all-stars who aren't likely to be obtainable. Shai, LaMelo, Haliburton.

Harden worked flawlessly with Kyrie.

Harden works same with Maxey.

It's because both Kyrie/Maxey are SG. They will not work as effectively together.

[brannigan73]

As an outsider, I find the treatment of Embiid a bit perplexing

He’s the MVP, undisputed team number 1 and the face of the franchise yet Morey is sacking coaches and making trades without his approval/knowledge

It’s very easy to say that he’s just an employee and needs to suck it up but we all know that it’s rarely how it works when dealing with superstars

Thank god we didn't do what he wanted if he wanted to keep Doc Rivers that's all I have to say. He obviously didnt throw his weight around to keep Jimmy Butler who he said was his best friend of the team. Waited until after he was gone and then started crying on social media about it. The problem with letting your stars call the shot is their butts not on the line if there suggestions suck. The GM gets fired.

[Jhawk03]

As an outsider, I find the treatment of Embiid a bit perplexing

He’s the MVP, undisputed team number 1 and the face of the franchise yet Morey is sacking coaches and making trades without his approval/knowledge

It’s very easy to say that he’s just an employee and needs to suck it up but we all know that it’s rarely how it works when dealing with superstars

Thank god we didn't do what he wanted if he wanted to keep Doc Rivers that's all I have to say. He obviously didnt throw his weight around to keep Jimmy Butler who he said was his best friend of the team. Waited until after he was gone and then started crying on social media about it. The problem with letting your stars call the shot is their butts not on the line if there suggestions suck. The GM gets fired.

This seems a bit unfair, Embiid was only 25. I don't even think LeBron had any real influence at age 25 and to suggest that he could demand personal decisions is a stretch. LeBron didn't get the title LeGM until much later in his career.

[FlyingArrow]

As an outsider, I find the treatment of Embiid a bit perplexing

He’s the MVP, undisputed team number 1 and the face of the franchise yet Morey is sacking coaches and making trades without his approval/knowledge

It’s very easy to say that he’s just an employee and needs to suck it up but we all know that it’s rarely how it works when dealing with superstars

Thank god we didn't do what he wanted if he wanted to keep Doc Rivers that's all I have to say. He obviously didnt throw his weight around to keep Jimmy Butler who he said was his best friend of the team. Waited until after he was gone and then started crying on social media about it. The problem with letting your stars call the shot is their butts not on the line if there suggestions suck. The GM gets fired.

The problem is that they usually care more about personalities than winning. And, also, they aren't the best judges of talent.

[Embiid P]

As an outsider, I find the treatment of Embiid a bit perplexing

He’s the MVP, undisputed team number 1 and the face of the franchise yet Morey is sacking coaches and making trades without his approval/knowledge

It’s very easy to say that he’s just an employee and needs to suck it up but we all know that it’s rarely how it works when dealing with superstars

Yes, but he may have very well lost some of his influence over personnel decisions after his performance against the Celtics, particularly game 7.

If he wants it back, he has to earn it.

[TheBallsDeeper]

As an outsider, I find the treatment of Embiid a bit perplexing

He’s the MVP, undisputed team number 1 and the face of the franchise yet Morey is sacking coaches and making trades without his approval/knowledge

It’s very easy to say that he’s just an employee and needs to suck it up but we all know that it’s rarely how it works when dealing with superstars

Embiid lost that right when he didn't show up in the last two games. Heatless performance from a player that is physically the best in the league, but a mental midget.