The Overachievers Vs. The Class Clowns, Heat @ Sixers 3/21 7:30pm EST

[TheBallsDeeper]

I think your appraisal of playoff Harden is a bit harsh, but regardless it was still the only move that would have significantly moved the needle potentially. We'll debate it forever, but to me making the Haliburton trade would have made the Sixers a fun to watch team that was never going to win a chip. Now, with some added moves this summer, the window is at least opened.

My worry is one of those moves is going to be a max contract to harden. I don't see the Sixers winning with him, and the thought of watching a declining Harden playing for fouls for the next 5 years makes me feel sick.

So your solution is to not sign Harden? There's a sure way to guarantee Embiid's career is championship-less. Well done.

My opinion, hope I'm wrong, but I can't see the Sixers winning it in the next few years. With the Harden and Harris contracts, there is no room to make any substantial improvements to the roster. I think someone is going to sign Harden to one of the worst contracts in NBA history, that will take years' worth of high draft picks to unload. I hope it's not the Sixers, I'd rather they let him walk or just take the one-year player option, at least then it isn't a 4/5 year burden at around $50m per year of cap space.

[Kobblehead]

If just one of Milton or Korkmaz can shoot with any sort of consistency to close out this year and into the postseason, we're winning the championship.

[mjkvol]

My worry is one of those moves is going to be a max contract to harden. I don't see the Sixers winning with him, and the thought of watching a declining Harden playing for fouls for the next 5 years makes me feel sick.

So your solution is to not sign Harden? There's a sure way to guarantee Embiid's career is championship-less. Well done.

My opinion, hope I'm wrong, but I can't see the Sixers winning it in the next few years. With the Harden and Harris contracts, there is no room to make any substantial improvements to the roster. I think someone is going to sign Harden to one of the worst contracts in NBA history, that will take years' worth of high draft picks to unload. I hope it's not the Sixers, I'd rather they let him walk or just take the one-year player option, at least then it isn't a 4/5 year burden at around $50m per year of cap space.

The move was made to trade the last real assets the organization owned to acquire Harden. To now turn around and not sign him would essentially be franchise suicide. You've committed to your fan base that this is the duo we're going to build around and go after a title. To do an about face isn't an option.

Will it work? There are no guarantees, a lot of luck and good health are needed to go all the way, but one thing that's for sure is that letting Harden walk after making that trade would set this franchise back at least five years, because Embiid will certainly ask
out before circling the drain as the ship goes down.

There will be no Harris contract if Morey does his job. You've got Embiid, Harden, and Maxey, and you add shooting and defense around them. There's no reason that a three year window to compete would be unreasonable if the right moves are made.

Your way sets the Sixers back to pre-Process status, which is essentially purgatory.

[TheBallsDeeper]

So your solution is to not sign Harden? There's a sure way to guarantee Embiid's career is championship-less. Well done.

My opinion, hope I'm wrong, but I can't see the Sixers winning it in the next few years. With the Harden and Harris contracts, there is no room to make any substantial improvements to the roster. I think someone is going to sign Harden to one of the worst contracts in NBA history, that will take years' worth of high draft picks to unload. I hope it's not the Sixers, I'd rather they let him walk or just take the one-year player option, at least then it isn't a 4/5 year burden at around $50m per year of cap space.

The move was made to trade the last real assets the organization owned to acquire Harden. To now turn around and not sign him would essentially be franchise suicide. You've committed to your fan base that this is the duo we're going to build around and go after a title. To do an about face isn't an option.

Will it work? There are no guarantees, a lot of luck and good health are needed to go all the way, but one thing that's for sure is that letting Harden walk after making that trade would set this franchise back at least five years, because Embiid will certainly ask
out before circling the drain as the ship goes down.

There will be no Harris contract if Morey does his job. You've got Embiid, Harden, and Maxey, and you add shooting and defense around them. There's no reason that a three year window to compete would be unreasonable if the right moves are made.

Your way sets the Sixers back to pre-Process status, which is essentially purgatory.

That's the thinking of a gambler chasing their losses, it's why Harris was signed to a terrible contract

[mjkvol]

My opinion, hope I'm wrong, but I can't see the Sixers winning it in the next few years. With the Harden and Harris contracts, there is no room to make any substantial improvements to the roster. I think someone is going to sign Harden to one of the worst contracts in NBA history, that will take years' worth of high draft picks to unload. I hope it's not the Sixers, I'd rather they let him walk or just take the one-year player option, at least then it isn't a 4/5 year burden at around $50m per year of cap space.

The move was made to trade the last real assets the organization owned to acquire Harden. To now turn around and not sign him would essentially be franchise suicide. You've committed to your fan base that this is the duo we're going to build around and go after a title. To do an about face isn't an option.

Will it work? There are no guarantees, a lot of luck and good health are needed to go all the way, but one thing that's for sure is that letting Harden walk after making that trade would set this franchise back at least five years, because Embiid will certainly ask
out before circling the drain as the ship goes down.

There will be no Harris contract if Morey does his job. You've got Embiid, Harden, and Maxey, and you add shooting and defense around them. There's no reason that a three year window to compete would be unreasonable if the right moves are made.

Your way sets the Sixers back to pre-Process status, which is essentially purgatory.

That's the thinking of a gambler chasing their losses, it's why Harris was signed to a terrible contract

Huh? You make no sense, there are no losses yet. No point discussing it further.

[76ciology]

Who cares about cap room? Is it preventing you to sign Kevin Durant?

We have been over the cap and we’re signing guys like Niang, Drummond and D12 for very little money.

If the owner wants to overpay and loose money then let him pay.

[76ciology]

Harden has on vs off 15 NetRtg, best in the team.

22-7rpg-10apg with 62 TS%

Best ISO scorer in the league@ 1.2ppp;7.7 possessions

Averaged the most 4th qtr pts at 6.6ppg

Makes everyone better. Turns Thybulle into Shawn Marion and Niang into Larry Bird.

He has been a plus defender. He has challenged the second most shots in the entire team after Embiid. He has a case for being the second best defender on the team on his 11 games.

Harden is arguably been better than Embiid, who’s the frontrunner for MVP.

Harden will never be that GOAT Rockets player because of two things. Number one reason is age. Second, it’s because he’s playing with Embiid who’s not a lob threat, clogging the driving lane (mid range) and is thirsting for his 30ppg average.

But again, if you look at it objectively, Harden’s been the top basketball player on our team ever since he arrive here.

How many players in the league can do that if they’re playing on our team?

[TheBallsDeeper]

Harden has on vs off 15 NetRtg, best in the team.

22-7rpg-10apg with 62 TS%

Best ISO scorer in the league@ 1.2ppp;7.7 possessions

Averaged the most 4th qtr pts at 6.6ppg

Makes everyone better. Turns Thybulle into Shawn Marion and Niang into Larry Bird.

He has been a plus defender. He has challenged the second most shots in the entire team after Embiid. He has a case for being the second best defender on the team on his 11 games.

Harden is arguably been better than Embiid, who’s the frontrunner for MVP.

Harden will never be that GOAT Rockets player because of two things. Number one reason is age. Second, it’s because he’s playing with Embiid who’s not a lob threat, clogging the driving lane (mid range) and is thirsting for his 30ppg average.

But again, if you look at it objectively, Harden’s been the top basketball player on our team ever since he arrive here.

How many players in the league can do that if they’re playing on our team?

It's why he got regular-season MVP and 6xfirst team all NBA. Nobody can argue that James Harden doesn't get stats during the regular season.
This conversation started with me saying I enjoyed watching the Harden less Sixers much more than him and Embiid flopping and complaining, someone posted along the lines of reg season that's ok, but we need Harden to win playoff games. I disagreed.
Harden has a career made of exceptional regular season stats, and repeated failures in the playoffs. Posting his regular-season stats doesn't really add to the discussion.

[76ciology]

Harden has on vs off 15 NetRtg, best in the team.

22-7rpg-10apg with 62 TS%

Best ISO scorer in the league@ 1.2ppp;7.7 possessions

Averaged the most 4th qtr pts at 6.6ppg

Makes everyone better. Turns Thybulle into Shawn Marion and Niang into Larry Bird.

He has been a plus defender. He has challenged the second most shots in the entire team after Embiid. He has a case for being the second best defender on the team on his 11 games.

Harden is arguably been better than Embiid, who’s the frontrunner for MVP.

Harden will never be that GOAT Rockets player because of two things. Number one reason is age. Second, it’s because he’s playing with Embiid who’s not a lob threat, clogging the driving lane (mid range) and is thirsting for his 30ppg average.

But again, if you look at it objectively, Harden’s been the top basketball player on our team ever since he arrive here.

How many players in the league can do that if they’re playing on our team?

It's why he got regular-season MVP and 6xfirst team all NBA. Nobody can argue that James Harden doesn't get stats during the regular season.
This conversation started with me saying I enjoyed watching the Harden less Sixers much more than him and Embiid flopping and complaining, someone posted along the lines of reg season that's ok, but we need Harden to win playoff games. I disagreed.
Harden has a career made of exceptional regular season stats, and repeated failures in the playoffs. Posting his regular-season stats doesn't really add to the discussion.

Because he has to do it alone. You can say the same thing about Embiid or on most players if they do it alone.

Teams would either force you to cough the ball up and let the role players like Trevor Ariza and Pat Beverly beat you or some teams would let you get 40-50pts and just lockdown everyone.

Harden is now playing with a MULTI THREAT team. We got 4 guys who can get us close to 100pts per game. How many teams in the league can say the same thing?

This isn’t about Harden. This is about the team.

If Harden averages 10ppg the entire playoffs but he gets the other guys like niang, shake, korkmaz, maxey or tobi open 3s that lead us to win the championship, who cares..

[TheBallsDeeper]

Well one of us is going to be wrong, hopefully, it's me. If they do win it will be ugly to watch but a smart move. If they don't win it's going to be another decade of the process. We will know in a few months.

[mjkvol]

Well one of us is going to be wrong, hopefully, it's me. If they do win it will be ugly to watch but a smart move. If they don't win it's going to be another decade of the process. We will know in a few months.

If they don't win this year it's going to be another Process? That is a ridiculous statement, as this team is an unfinished product - anything we get in the playoffs this year is gravy. This was always about the next 2-3 seasons, and even then there is no guarantee of a title, only of building a legitimate contender.

You have set this up to make yourself look like the smartest guy in the room should the Sixers not win the championship this year.
Winning any year still requires good health and good fortune, as we have seen from the MIL and TOR title teams, and there is still a ton of work yet to do on this roster.

Guys like you with an agenda are more concerned about being 'right' than looking at things with an ounce of objectivity and recognizing that this is a flawed group that is still learning to play together. This isn't a video game where you plug someone in and automatically have a finished product. But if being 'right' on an internet forum is that important, please carry on.

[phillynative]

If just one of Milton or Korkmaz can shoot with any sort of consistency to close out this year and into the postseason, we're winning the championship.

I think we need both tbh. We need shake to provide some of his lower level 3level scoring and Furks 3pt shooting.

[phillynative]

If just one of Milton or Korkmaz can shoot with any sort of consistency to close out this year and into the postseason, we're winning the championship.

I think we need both tbh. We need shake to provide some of his lower level 3level scoring and Furks streaky 3pt shooting.

Cant hold your breath with these two as they have shown

[phillynative]

Harden has on vs off 15 NetRtg, best in the team.

22-7rpg-10apg with 62 TS%

Best ISO scorer in the league@ 1.2ppp;7.7 possessions

Averaged the most 4th qtr pts at 6.6ppg

Makes everyone better. Turns Thybulle into Shawn Marion and Niang into Larry Bird.

He has been a plus defender. He has challenged the second most shots in the entire team after Embiid. He has a case for being the second best defender on the team on his 11 games.

Harden is arguably been better than Embiid, who’s the frontrunner for MVP.

Harden will never be that GOAT Rockets player because of two things. Number one reason is age. Second, it’s because he’s playing with Embiid who’s not a lob threat, clogging the driving lane (mid range) and is thirsting for his 30ppg average.

But again, if you look at it objectively, Harden’s been the top basketball player on our team ever since he arrive here.

How many players in the league can do that if they’re playing on our team?

This is a reach. Embiid is and has remained the best player on this team. I get that Harden is the shiny new toy But Embiid took this team to the 3rd seed before Harden acquision and has played without a star the whole way. Harden has proven so far to be an elite playmaker but he is no longer the explosive scorer , finisher he once was. Taking sly digs at Embiid because he is not a lob threat and is a offensive force as a big man is puzzlying. Embiid is in his prime and Harden is no longer, Embiid has nothing to do with Harden no longer being the MVP Harden of the past.

Also Harden stats here are no different than his stats with the nets, and they have multiple lob threats and an elite perimeter threat in Durant. I dont see where Embiid who is not in the paint all game has anything to do that.

[mjkvol]

If just one of Milton or Korkmaz can shoot with any sort of consistency to close out this year and into the postseason, we're winning the championship.

I think we need both tbh. We need shake to provide some of his lower level 3level scoring and Furks 3pt shooting.

Agree with this, especially if Kork is able to maintain close to a 40% 3PA and be another willing gunner along with Niang and Green.

Shake would be icing and potentially give us that 'fourth guy' that could take over for short stints in case of a scoring drought.

[Embiid P]

If just one of Milton or Korkmaz can shoot with any sort of consistency to close out this year and into the postseason, we're winning the championship.

I think we need both tbh. We need shake to provide some of his lower level 3level scoring and Furks 3pt shooting.

Agree with this, especially if Kork is able to maintain close to a 40% 3PA and be another willing gunner along with Niang and Green.

Shake would be icing and potentially give us that 'fourth guy' that could take over for short stints in case of a scoring drought.

I get the sentiment of having Shake play more, but only when neither Harden or Maxey are on the floor.

Shake, like the other two, is most effective when he has the ball in his hands. He's not a catch and shoot guy. Thus I think he's gone come next season.

[elchengue20]

Yes, it is a reach, but i think the point was to describe that Harden has still elite impact on the court, even it hes not the same player than in his peak years in Houston.

[Jailblazers7]

I think the Harden/Embiid PnR has some kinks to work out for sure. Embiid needs to start shooting some of those wide open pick and pops without hesitation. And Harden can gets Embiid an open shot whenever he wants but his own scoring is a work in progress. Usually he uses a lob threat as a threat to get to the rim but can’t with Embiid.

So teams end up blitzing Harden on the pick and gambling that they can recover on Embiid because he’ll pump fake his way out of an open shot. I’m sure they’ll figure it out eventually but it could take a while.

People get on Tobias for passing up open looks but I think it’s a problem for Embiid too & Harden to a lesser extent.

[SixthStreet]

You don’t need Korkmaz to be consistently good, but he’s going to need a 5-9 3P game or two at some point. He and Niang are the only flamethrowers we have. Maybe Green too but not sure how many games he’s going to get up 8+ attempts from deep.

[TheBallsDeeper]

Well one of us is going to be wrong, hopefully, it's me. If they do win it will be ugly to watch but a smart move. If they don't win it's going to be another decade of the process. We will know in a few months.

If they don't win this year it's going to be another Process? That is a ridiculous statement, as this team is an unfinished product - anything we get in the playoffs this year is gravy. This was always about the next 2-3 seasons, and even then there is no guarantee of a title, only of building a legitimate contender.

You have set this up to make yourself look like the smartest guy in the room should the Sixers not win the championship this year.
Winning any year still requires good health and good fortune, as we have seen from the MIL and TOR title teams, and there is still a ton of work yet to do on this roster.

Guys like you with an agenda are more concerned about being 'right' than looking at things with an ounce of objectivity and recognizing that this is a flawed group that is still learning to play together. This isn't a video game where you plug someone in and automatically have a finished product. But if being 'right' on an internet forum is that important, please carry on.

What I mean is - I don't think the Sixers can win with Harden. This year is most likely their best chance with a healthy Embiid, so if they can't do it this year I doubt it's going to happen.

Harden is getting older and could decline pretty quickly, Tobias is not going to be traded for anything worthwhile while he is on one of the worst contracts in the NBA. To clear him the Sixers will need to give up assets, not gain some. So in my opinion, if they can't win it this year the likelihood of winning it in the next few years is unlikely, and the team will be choked by a Max contract on an aging star that has proven he is a poor performer when it really matters.