No Pace Vs. The Pacers, Sixers @ Pacers 4/5 7:00pm EST

[sodmoraes]

I think Harden is a baller, but if he's settling into the role of being lead-playmaker & stress valve outlet for Joel Embiid and the rest of the team - then we objectively did not take the best possible deal considering you could have had McCollum (underrated baller) + 2-3 firsts and still retained Seth as another valuable asset to build a super roster next season, the same for Haliburton +. That's just reality to me.

However, the fresh Harden we've seen in flashes, specifically when he first arrived after taking a month off is clearly and objectively better than either player and a championship first or second option.

I think it's such a hard and ultimately pointless conversation to exhaust now. To me I don't really even care what happens as long as it results in Joel Embiid winning a championship.

Yep, we gotta see how Harden rebounds next year. If he will be this version of himself from now on, CJ and picks would have been a better package, sadly.. When we gotta pay HArden? It would be optimal to see him playing next year, before signing him to a max contract.

[76Shots]

[/color]

Otherwise known as a troll.

Most of us are realistic enough about this season to know it is a house money year due to the shortness of time to work Harden in and the limitations of the roster. Ferry wants to set himself up as some sort of sage when the Sixers are eliminated while telling the entire board to put him on ignore if you call him out on it.

A classic troll.

I couldn't disagree more. I find interesting the narrative shift since the realization that the version of Harden the Sixers acquired is more likely a top 25-30 (or worse) player rather than a top 10-15 player. This season despite the Ben saga, was never about playing with "house money". The Sixers have been consistently one of the top teams in the East this year (which is wide open) and have consistently been mentioned as a title contender prior to acquiring Harden, due to Embiid's MVP season, the emergence of Maxey and the depth the team had.

The narrative up until the trade deadline was centered around trading Ben, as to not waste the MVP season that Joel was having and improve the Sixers title run this year. Morey, echoed that same sentiment during an interview before the trade.

So to try and argue that this season is "house money" comes across as a huge cope. The team is currently comprised of a current top 3 MVP candidate, a former MVP, a player projected to be top 15 paid in the league next year (Harris) and an emerging star in Maxey but somehow this is a throw away year all of a sudden?

I know what the media and team narrative have been, and it would be an insane business move for the Sixers to make a trade of that magnitude and not state that it was 'championship or bust' this season. The media sees two stars of that level and the hype machine is off and running.

My point, and I believe others here felt the same way, was from the day we made the trade that it was more about the next 2-3 years than this year for some very simple reasons:

1. The limited amount of time to integrate Harden into the scheme here, and pretty drastic change given the Embiid-centric way the Sixers have played the last few years. Even the team and Rivers continue to refer to it as 'a work in progress'.

2. The fact that the Sixers roster is badly flawed, with horrible deficiencies on defense, rebounding, and at the backup center spot. Those holes will only be further exposed over the course of short series against the best teams in the conference. The work that Morey will be doing this summer and by next year's trade deadline will be to plug those holes with pieces that better fit the plan moving forward.

3. The Harden we are getting was never going to be Houston Harden, but he is in the process of adjusting to a completely new kind of role for him, and it doesn't happen in 20 games. In addition, he is clearly not 100%, and won't be this season.

Oh, and since when does being a 'Top 15 paid in the league' player mean a single thing with regard to the type of player and if he fits? Russell Westbrook is probably a Top 10 paid player, how did that work out for L.A.?

I know what the media and team narrative have been, and it would be an insane business move for the Sixers to make a trade of that magnitude and not state that it was 'championship or bust' this season. The media sees two stars of that level and the hype machine is off and running.

You're speaking about the narrative after the trade. I was referring to the sentiment and narrative surrounding the team before the trade. However, what you're saying is interesting. So are you saying the Sixer are lying and don't truly believe that acquiring Harden would make the team a legit title contender this year OR they are misguided in believing that trading for Harden would make the team a legit title contender this year.

My point, and I believe others here felt the same way, was from the day we made the trade that it was more about the next 2-3 years than this year for some very simple reasons:

Again, the Sixers at the time of the trade were 5th in a wide-open East (would have been higher if not for Embiids injury) and ascending. The trading of Ben was suppose to put the team in a position to be legit contenders or at least favorites to come out of the East this year, no matter who he was being traded for. Now that the Harden trade has been made, the team goes from being a player away from competing this year to multiple players away from competing for a title next year and beyond? Make that make sense.

1. The limited amount of time to integrate Harden into the scheme here, and pretty drastic change given the Embiid-centric way the Sixers have played the last few years. Even the team and Rivers continue to refer to it as 'a work in progress'.

I'm no basketball aficionado when it comes to X's and O's. So please explain, if you would, what "scheme" is Harden integrating to. Because the scheme, at least to me, seems to be very ISO ball and foul drawing centric.

2. The fact that the Sixers roster is badly flawed, with horrible deficiencies on defense, rebounding, and at the backup center spot. Those holes will only be further exposed over the course of short series against the best teams in the conference. The work that Morey will be doing this summer and by next year's trade deadline will be to plug those holes with pieces that better fit the plan moving forward.

The irony is that the roster is flawed because of the trade. Drummond was one of, if not the best backup center in the league when he was with the team and Seth, despite his defensive deficiencies, was a great role player, elite shooter and quality ball handler that would have provided great depth had Morey chose to go another trade route.


3. The Harden we are getting was never going to be Houston Harden, but he is in the process of adjusting to a completely new kind of role for him, and it doesn't happen in 20 games. In addition, he is clearly not 100%, and won't be this season.

If he is not going to be a scoring threat from the perimeter, what is his role? More and more teams aren't sending doubles his way, completely comfortable with defenders to cover him 1 on 1 and less and less is he getting the whistles he is accustomed to. You say he isn't going to be 100% this season but supposedly he hasn't been 100% the last 2 seasons and will be a year older with more miles, after presumably getting one of the richest contracts in league history, what's his incentive to change anything?

Oh, and since when does being a 'Top 15 paid in the league' player mean a single thing with regard to the type of player and if he fits? Russell Westbrook is probably a Top 10 paid player, how did that work out for L.A.?

Whatever phrase or adjective you want to harp on but the bottom line is Tobias is more than suitable to being a fourth option on a championship level team, which the Sixers should have been this year.

[76Shots]

I guess you guys don’t trust Morey then?

Its not that I dont trust Morey. He is at least competent which compared to the previous decision makers this team has had is a huge step up. I just thought that he would be more of a visionary than he has turned out to be. I thought the Ben trade would be a prime opportunity to set the team up for now and in the future with regards to flexibility and asset accumulation; all while maintaining title aspirations. Unfortunately, due to the lack of depth, lack of assets and the impending Harden contract, that doesnt appear to be the case.

I thought he would use the Ben trade as an opportunity to try and acquire the next James Harden before anyone realized he was James Harden. But ultimately, he just went for James Harden.

[Ferry Avenue]

Use the ignore function if your reply focuses on me as opposed to the topic, the 76ers. If you'd like discussion about the topic, I'm happy to oblige, even in healthy disagreement.


Certainly disagreement about the team's big picture with a guy who calls himself "mjkvol" on a message board doesn't make someone a troll.


Apparently you need some sort of unanimity with your perspective here. I don't need that myself.

I cut out the mindless bloviating (which is always most if not all of your posts).

1. The discussion becomes about you because you go out of your way to make it about yourself, and then deflect in classic troll fashion with the 'ignore function' idiocy.

2. That's debatable.

3. We don't all agree here, and there certainly isn't any unanimity of perspective other than you being the only one singled out as a troll. Where there's smoke ....

[Ferry Avenue]

If he is not going to be a scoring threat from the perimeter, what is his role? More and more teams aren't sending doubles his way, completely comfortable with defenders to cover him 1 on 1 and less and less is he getting the whistles he is accustomed to. You say he isn't going to be 100% this season but supposedly he hasn't been 100% the last 2 seasons and will be a year older with more miles, after presumably getting one of the richest contracts in league history, what's his incentive to change anything?

The problem in the Pistons game was precisely that the Pistons switched defensively on the picks for Harden, and Harden was nonetheless unable to blow by the likes of Marvin Bagley and Isaiah Stewart. That was mighty concerning.

[Jailblazers7]

I will say that, despite being a hater of James Harden for years, I expected us to have a better title shot this year when the trade was made. James Harden is clearly not Houston Harden and not even last years version of himself before the hammy injury. I hope that it’s something he can fix with time in the offseason but we’ll see. If this is his norm from now on, then it’ll be a massive disappointment.

I’ve shifted to putting my hope in the future because of all the reasons listed like bad coaching, an incomplete roster rebuild around Harden/Embiid, etc. BUT, the wary returns are not what I expected.

[mjkvol]

Here's the bottom line - Morey felt like taking one of the lesser deals was a sideways move for a team that was more than one player away from being a legit title contender. The Sixers with Haliburton or Fox are still a good team, but not one that's competing for a title, and picks are always going to be wild cards.

He felt that a true difference maker was necessary to take the ultimate step, and moved for one he was comfortable with and knew could be had. Whether it was the right move is TBD, but this is who Morey felt gave us the best chance for success, and I agree with him.

Regarding the Sixers stance of being a contender this year, I suppose in some regard they are. There isn't that one powerhouse to fear, so it's as 'wide open' as it's been since the Warriors dynasty. The cost of making a deal like were players who were in key spots, and this wasn't a super deep team before.

The roster was flawed before Harden and it is still flawed, and will be exposed in the playoffs, which is why I can't help but believe Morey knows in his heart of hearts that the next couple of years are when we will have a more complete, fitting roster and our best chance to compete.

The Sixers aren't lying or misguided - it would be asinine to trade for a James Harden and announce to your fan base that it was not about this year, but it would be quite realistic to believe that with a full off season, a (hopefully) healthy Harden, and a better roster that the team would be a more legit championship contender. I can't help but believe Morey is fully aware of this, and that even a slightly lesser Harden was a better option than any of the others allegedly on the table.

Harden may still be a top 10-15 player, or he may have slipped to 15-20 - either way, with the right moves and a full off season we should have a much better idea of what an Embiid/Harden led team will look like than the admittedly still adjusting, flawed group we see now. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

[mjkvol]

At any rate, I won't be responding to you anymore.

Well thank goodness for small miracles.

[Ferry Avenue]

I will say that, despite being a hater of James Harden for years, I expected us to have a better title shot this year when the trade was made. James Harden is clearly not Houston Harden and not even last years version of himself before the hammy injury. I hope that it’s something he can fix with time in the offseason but we’ll see. If this is his norm from now on, then it’ll be a massive disappointment.

I’ve shifted to putting my hope in the future because of all the reasons listed like bad coaching, an incomplete roster rebuild around Harden/Embiid, etc. BUT, the wary returns are not what I expected.

And if there was no such thing as a salary cap none of that would matter. The problem comes when you have to make a decision about paying him and how much, as that obviously determines in part the remaining money that may be needed to compensate for the difference between Houston Harden and the current version, if indeed the current version prevails.

[HardenGoat]

If you want proof that it takes a well constructed team and a complete buy in with effort and chemistry to win it all, look no further than the Lakers. It wasn’t the coach, he got them a ring. It wasn’t Lebron. Although he probably made the decisions on players so maybe yeah, but he needed more than his ability and effort. They had a winning team and lost some key pieces is what really happened. If the Suns win it all how will we view CP3? I understand the expectation of what Harden should be bringing, and he does seem hampered physically. He had flashes of brilliance this year, which means he must be missing on a cylinder or two down this stretch. Iam not sure what he will bring in the playoffs, hopefully he can be solid and roll out a fluid offense like we had firing in the first half. Hopefully he finds his lift and ability to finish again or he was running in a preserve mode this whole time. We shall see. I think we have a shot actually.

[Ferry Avenue]

If you want proof that it takes a well constructed team and a complete buy in with effort and chemistry to win it all, look no further than the Lakers. It wasn’t the coach, he got them a ring. It wasn’t Lebron. Although he probably made the decisions on players so maybe yeah, but he needed more than his ability and effort. They had a winning team and lost some key pieces is what really happened. If the Suns win it all how will we view CP3? I understand the expectation of what Harden should be bringing, and he does seem hampered physically. He had flashes of brilliance this year, which means he must be missing on a cylinder or two down this stretch. Iam not sure what he will bring in the playoffs, hopefully he can be solid and roll out a fluid offense like we had firing in the first half. Hopefully he finds his lift and ability to finish again or he was running in a preserve mode this whole time. We shall see. I think we have a shot actually.

It certainly takes a well-constructed team to win a championship, but you won’t find one that doesn’t contain a player who functions as one of the best in the league and who spearheads the team effectively in the clutch. With Harden functioning as he does presently, the Sixers could potentially be as well-constructed as possible and still be missing that championship key ingredient.

[Embiid P]

Here's the bottom line - Morey felt like taking one of the lesser deals was a sideways move for a team that was more than one player away from being a legit title contender. The Sixers with Haliburton or Fox are still a good team, but not one that's competing for a title, and picks are always going to be wild cards.

He felt that a true difference maker was necessary to take the ultimate step, and moved for one he was comfortable with and knew could be had. Whether it was the right move is TBD, but this is who Morey felt gave us the best chance for success, and I agree with him.

Regarding the Sixers stance of being a contender this year, I suppose in some regard they are. There isn't that one powerhouse to fear, so it's as 'wide open' as it's been since the Warriors dynasty. The cost of making a deal like were players who were in key spots, and this wasn't a super deep team before.

The roster was flawed before Harden and it is still flawed, and will be exposed in the playoffs, which is why I can't help but believe Morey knows in his heart of hearts that the next couple of years are when we will have a more complete, fitting roster and our best chance to compete.

The Sixers aren't lying or misguided - it would be asinine to trade for a James Harden and announce to your fan base that it was not about this year, but it would be quite realistic to believe that with a full off season, a (hopefully) healthy Harden, and a better roster that the team would be a more legit championship contender. I can't help but believe Morey is fully aware of this, and that even a slightly lesser Harden was a better option than any of the others allegedly on the table.

Harden may still be a top 10-15 player, or he may have slipped to 15-20 - either way, with the right moves and a full off season we should have a much better idea of what an Embiid/Harden led team will look like than the admittedly still adjusting, flawed group we see now. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

Even though he shot the ball poorly last night, he had 14 assists. For this season, I'm going to write off his poor shooting due to his hamstring injury and playing too many minutes due to a lack of consistent bench scoring. If he comes back again next season and nothing has changed even when healthier with a better supporting cast and a reduction in minutes, then it will be time to worry IMO.

[mjkvol]

Even though he shot the ball poorly last night, he had 14 assists. For this season, I'm going to write off his poor shooting due to his hamstring injury and playing too many minutes due to a lack of consistent bench scoring. If he comes back again next season and nothing has changed even when healthier with a better supporting cast and a reduction in minutes, then it will be time to worry IMO.

No doubt. The idea of Glenn running him 40 minutes a night is obscene, and I would hope that with a more complete team he will settle in at 32-34 minutes, which should be where Embiid is at in the coming seasons as well.

I like the idea of Harden as a distributor and picking his spots when to attack, ala Chris Paul. That is certainly the way his game will age gracefully.

[Ferry Avenue]

Even though he shot the ball poorly last night, he had 14 assists. For this season, I'm going to write off his poor shooting due to his hamstring injury and playing too many minutes due to a lack of consistent bench scoring. If he comes back again next season and nothing has changed even when healthier with a better supporting cast and a reduction in minutes, then it will be time to worry IMO.

When it's really time to worry is when you've paid him like "Houston Harden" (as some have called it) in the interim and he comes back next season playing no differently. That's the conundrum here.

[Ferry Avenue]

I like the idea of Harden as a distributor and picking his spots when to attack, ala Chris Paul. That is certainly the way his game will age gracefully.

That can work for a championship when you have the likes of Devin Booker. For that to work with this team, Tyrese Maxey or some acquired player would have to function such that the offense can be run through him a la Booker. There's a very important reason Chris Paul wanted to play with Devin Booker.

The problem with this Sixers team once again is that it can't win a championship with Harden functioning essentially as John Stockton (as someone put it well above) and with Embiid as the player the offense runs through in the clutch. Harden either needs to be "Houston Harden" or there needs to be another player (other than Harden or Embiid) the offense runs through effectively at those times.

[T_Brandon]

I like the idea of Harden as a distributor and picking his spots when to attack, ala Chris Paul. That is certainly the way his game will age gracefully.

That can work for a championship when you have the likes of Devin Booker. For that to work with this team, Tyrese Maxey or some acquired player would have to function such that the offense can be run through him a la Booker. There's a very important reason Chris Paul wanted to play with Devin Booker.

The problem with this Sixers team once again is that it can't win a championship with Harden functioning essentially as John Stockton (as someone put it well above) and with Embiid as the player the offense runs through in the clutch. Harden either needs to be "Houston Harden" or there needs to be another player (other than Harden or Embiid) the offense runs through effectively at those times.

Zip it troll

[mjkvol]

I like the idea of Harden as a distributor and picking his spots when to attack, ala Chris Paul. That is certainly the way his game will age gracefully.

That can work for a championship when you have the likes of Devin Booker. For that to work with this team, Tyrese Maxey or some acquired player would have to function such that the offense can be run through him a la Booker. There's a very important reason Chris Paul wanted to play with Devin Booker.

The problem with this Sixers team once again is that it can't win a championship with Harden functioning essentially as John Stockton (as someone put it well above) and with Embiid as the player the offense runs through in the clutch. Harden either needs to be "Houston Harden" or there needs to be another player (other than Harden or Embiid) the offense runs through effectively at those times.

Please stick to your promise of not responding to my posts any more. You're a blowhard troll, taking paragraphs to say the same stupid schiit over and over. And I'm well aware of the ignore function you love so much, but you're not worth that kind of effort.

[T_Brandon]

I like the idea of Harden as a distributor and picking his spots when to attack, ala Chris Paul. That is certainly the way his game will age gracefully.

That can work for a championship when you have the likes of Devin Booker. For that to work with this team, Tyrese Maxey or some acquired player would have to function such that the offense can be run through him a la Booker. There's a very important reason Chris Paul wanted to play with Devin Booker.

The problem with this Sixers team once again is that it can't win a championship with Harden functioning essentially as John Stockton (as someone put it well above) and with Embiid as the player the offense runs through in the clutch. Harden either needs to be "Houston Harden" or there needs to be another player (other than Harden or Embiid) the offense runs through effectively at those times.

Please stick to your promise of not responding to my posts any more. You're a blowhard troll, taking paragraphs to say the same stupid schiit over and over. And I'm well aware of the ignore function you love so much, but you're not worth that kind of effort.

Lol



If everyone just ignores this troll he’ll go away he’s just looking for a reaction. Life must be Just miserable imagine living for trolling a sports team message board to get a reaction out of people.

[Ferry Avenue]

I like the idea of Harden as a distributor and picking his spots when to attack, ala Chris Paul. That is certainly the way his game will age gracefully.

That can work for a championship when you have the likes of Devin Booker. For that to work with this team, Tyrese Maxey or some acquired player would have to function such that the offense can be run through him a la Booker. There's a very important reason Chris Paul wanted to play with Devin Booker.

The problem with this Sixers team once again is that it can't win a championship with Harden functioning essentially as John Stockton (as someone put it well above) and with Embiid as the player the offense runs through in the clutch. Harden either needs to be "Houston Harden" or there needs to be another player (other than Harden or Embiid) the offense runs through effectively at those times.

Please stick to your promise of not responding to my posts any more. You're a blowhard troll, taking paragraphs to say the same stupid schiit over and over. And I'm well aware of the ignore function you love so much, but you're not worth that kind of effort.

To clarify, I won't be responding to posts of yours that contain nothing but commentary about me as a poster, as opposed to the topic we're here to discuss. Although I've made an exception here to clarify, I won't be doing it again. I'll continue to feel free to respond to posts about the team, however, as that's what we're here to do.

[mjkvol]

That can work for a championship when you have the likes of Devin Booker. For that to work with this team, Tyrese Maxey or some acquired player would have to function such that the offense can be run through him a la Booker. There's a very important reason Chris Paul wanted to play with Devin Booker.

The problem with this Sixers team once again is that it can't win a championship with Harden functioning essentially as John Stockton (as someone put it well above) and with Embiid as the player the offense runs through in the clutch. Harden either needs to be "Houston Harden" or there needs to be another player (other than Harden or Embiid) the offense runs through effectively at those times.

Please stick to your promise of not responding to my posts any more. You're a blowhard troll, taking paragraphs to say the same stupid schiit over and over. And I'm well aware of the ignore function you love so much, but you're not worth that kind of effort.

To clarify, I won't be responding to posts of yours that contain nothing but commentary about me as a poster, as opposed to the topic we're here to discuss. Although I've made an exception here to clarify, I won't be doing it again. I'll continue to feel free to respond to posts about the team, however, as that's what we're here to do.

To clarify - you really are an actual, live troll. At what point does your mom call you up from the basement?