RealGM

Since the first thread has reached 100 pages, it's time to start a new one.

mjkvol wrote:https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-finals-how-celtics-and-mavericks-built-their-rosters-and-lessons-other-teams-can-learn/

Every once in a while the national media skips their usual star-obsessed narrative and comes up with an intelligent approach. This is precisely how I have hoped Morey would approach this once in a blue moon opportunity to reconstruct our roster since last off season, in great detail.

Finding players on bad teams with upside that can be had for cheap, patiently waiting for opportunities that will be presenting themselves in the off season and toward the trade deadline, and building quality depth to be able to survive injuries.

The part about making hard choices is something that this franchise has been unwilling to do, with Simmons and Harris being the most obvious examples, but Morey now has a blank slate except he starts with two stars already in place. Maxing one of these older "third star" types is the surest way to kill this thing before it even gets going, and hopefully he is a lot smarter than that.

I'm not sure the topic of that article fits the narrative you want to promote. Jrue Holiday was 33 when they traded for him and gave him a contract. Also, the Sixers were in on Jrue; they just lacked the assets to beat the Celtics. Porzingis is 28, but was injury prone and had worn his welcome out in two different locations. If there is anything to take away from the Celtics; it is that they dumped one-dimensional players for guys that fit better around their stars and whose blemishes could be masked by their stars.

Dallas lucked into a discounted Kyrie who finally decided he would play ball again if he wanted a contract. When Brunson left, he had not yet reached the level he is at in NYC. He also isn't the shooter Kyrie is nor the ballhandler. Again, a team went out and got guys who fit even if they were older, injury prone or had other issues.

That article could literally be used to encourage the Sixers to target PG13 or Lebron as their "fit" is the best with what we have.

Plan Chicago Offseason


1. Absorb LaVine, Caruso, and #11 for #16
2. Draft Dalton Knecht at #11
3. Sign Kyle Anderson with room exception
4. Sign Cam Payne, Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Andre Drummond for vet mins


Maxey/Payne/Lowry
LaVine/Caruso/(project)
Knecht/Batum/Council
Anderson/Saric/Covington
Embiid/Drummond/(project)

Definitely not where the plane was supposed to land. Had several, several brighter pastures

ProcessDoctor wrote:Plan Chicago Offseason


1. Absorb LaVine, Caruso, and #11 for #16
2. Draft Dalton Knecht at #11
3. Sign Kyle Anderson with room exception
4. Sign Cam Payne, Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Andre Drummond for vet mins


Maxey/Payne/Lowry
LaVine/Caruso/(project)
Knecht/Batum/Council
Anderson/Saric/Covington
Embiid/Drummond/(project)

I'd be okay with Lavine if it makes sense.

Not okay with getting less athletic with Anderson over Oubre

Still can't believe they gave Hinkie all that rope just to eventually cave and play by the unwritten rules just long enough to get knee capped. Morey has done nothing except hit on Maxey, but he inherited a cap sheet that was half full with Tobias Harris and Al Horford. Just unbelievable

ProcessDoctor wrote:Plan Chicago Offseason


1. Absorb LaVine, Caruso, and #11 for #16
2. Draft Dalton Knecht at #11
3. Sign Kyle Anderson with room exception
4. Sign Cam Payne, Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Andre Drummond for vet mins


Maxey/Payne/Lowry
LaVine/Caruso/(project)
Knecht/Batum/Council
Anderson/Saric/Covington
Embiid/Drummond/(project)

Amazing, a plan revolving around bringing Lavine here that I can wholeheartedly endorse. Make it happen.

ProcessDoctor wrote:Plan Chicago Offseason


1. Absorb LaVine, Caruso, and #11 for #16
2. Draft Dalton Knecht at #11
3. Sign Kyle Anderson with room exception
4. Sign Cam Payne, Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Andre Drummond for vet mins


Maxey/Payne/Lowry
LaVine/Caruso/(project)
Knecht/Batum/Council
Anderson/Saric/Covington
Embiid/Drummond/(project)

I would do that trade but you need more athleticism at the 4, all 3 of those dudes may be cooked at this point

Black Mage wrote:

mjkvol wrote:https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-finals-how-celtics-and-mavericks-built-their-rosters-and-lessons-other-teams-can-learn/

Every once in a while the national media skips their usual star-obsessed narrative and comes up with an intelligent approach. This is precisely how I have hoped Morey would approach this once in a blue moon opportunity to reconstruct our roster since last off season, in great detail.

Finding players on bad teams with upside that can be had for cheap, patiently waiting for opportunities that will be presenting themselves in the off season and toward the trade deadline, and building quality depth to be able to survive injuries.

The part about making hard choices is something that this franchise has been unwilling to do, with Simmons and Harris being the most obvious examples, but Morey now has a blank slate except he starts with two stars already in place. Maxing one of these older "third star" types is the surest way to kill this thing before it even gets going, and hopefully he is a lot smarter than that.

I'm not sure the topic of that article fits the narrative you want to promote. Jrue Holiday was 33 when they traded for him and gave him a contract. Also, the Sixers were in on Jrue; they just lacked the assets to beat the Celtics. Porzingis is 28, but was injury prone and had worn his welcome out in two different locations. If there is anything to take away from the Celtics; it is that they dumped one-dimensional players for guys that fit better around their stars and whose blemishes could be masked by their stars.

Dallas lucked into a discounted Kyrie who finally decided he would play ball again if he wanted a contract. When Brunson left, he had not yet reached the level he is at in NYC. He also isn't the shooter Kyrie is nor the ballhandler. Again, a team went out and got guys who fit even if they were older, injury prone or had other issues.

That article could literally be used to encourage the Sixers to target PG13 or Lebron as their "fit" is the best with what we have.

I took the article more as not recommending a top heavy, vet min-filled roster with zero depth, which is exactly what we'll have if Morey is shortsighted enough to bring in one of these geriatric max deal players. It isn't as much about age and health as it is roster fit, and being able to afford a solid 6-7 deep roster to compliment your stars.

However Dallas and Boston went about it, they located and had the assets and cap space to acquire useful pieces that fit what was needed to compliment what their stars can and can't do. If we sign a third max player, those opportunities won't be available, and we'll be right back to having a half-assed roster too dependent on vet min guys and being prisoners to the health and playoff availability of our stars. In other words, same old same old.

A lot of talk about whatever star to get/not get…not enough talk about high potential role players.

Some of my favorites:

Santi Aldama
Corey Kispert
Jalen Smith
Naji Marshall
Talen Horton-Tucker
Precious Achiuwa
Lonnie Walker
Goga Bitzade
Harry Giles
Sandro Mamukelashvili
Bol Bol

Monix wrote:

ProcessDoctor wrote:Plan Chicago Offseason


1. Absorb LaVine, Caruso, and #11 for #16
2. Draft Dalton Knecht at #11
3. Sign Kyle Anderson with room exception
4. Sign Cam Payne, Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Andre Drummond for vet mins


Maxey/Payne/Lowry
LaVine/Caruso/(project)
Knecht/Batum/Council
Anderson/Saric/Covington
Embiid/Drummond/(project)

I would do that trade but you need more athleticism at the 4, all 3 of those dudes may be cooked at this point

Jalen Smith could be an alternate choice here.

Bunch of role players:

Embiid
Maxey
Council
16
41
*KJ Martin cap hold*
DLo 20
Batum 7
Drummond 7
THT 8
Walker 7
Oubre 10
Lowry min
Covington min
Saric min

Maxey/Lowry/41
Russel/Walker/Council
THT/Oubre/Martin*
Batum/16/Covington
Embiid/Drummond/Saric

Would still have a room exception, as well as the ability to S&T KJ Martin.

mjkvol wrote:

Black Mage wrote:

mjkvol wrote:https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-finals-how-celtics-and-mavericks-built-their-rosters-and-lessons-other-teams-can-learn/

Every once in a while the national media skips their usual star-obsessed narrative and comes up with an intelligent approach. This is precisely how I have hoped Morey would approach this once in a blue moon opportunity to reconstruct our roster since last off season, in great detail.

Finding players on bad teams with upside that can be had for cheap, patiently waiting for opportunities that will be presenting themselves in the off season and toward the trade deadline, and building quality depth to be able to survive injuries.

The part about making hard choices is something that this franchise has been unwilling to do, with Simmons and Harris being the most obvious examples, but Morey now has a blank slate except he starts with two stars already in place. Maxing one of these older "third star" types is the surest way to kill this thing before it even gets going, and hopefully he is a lot smarter than that.

I'm not sure the topic of that article fits the narrative you want to promote. Jrue Holiday was 33 when they traded for him and gave him a contract. Also, the Sixers were in on Jrue; they just lacked the assets to beat the Celtics. Porzingis is 28, but was injury prone and had worn his welcome out in two different locations. If there is anything to take away from the Celtics; it is that they dumped one-dimensional players for guys that fit better around their stars and whose blemishes could be masked by their stars.

Dallas lucked into a discounted Kyrie who finally decided he would play ball again if he wanted a contract. When Brunson left, he had not yet reached the level he is at in NYC. He also isn't the shooter Kyrie is nor the ballhandler. Again, a team went out and got guys who fit even if they were older, injury prone or had other issues.

That article could literally be used to encourage the Sixers to target PG13 or Lebron as their "fit" is the best with what we have.

I took the article more as not recommending a top heavy, vet min-filled roster with zero depth, which is exactly what we'll have if Morey is shortsighted enough to bring in one of these geriatric max deal players. It isn't as much about age and health as it is roster fit, and being able to afford a solid 6-7 deep roster to compliment your stars.

However Dallas and Boston went about it, they located and had the assets and cap space to acquire useful pieces that fit what was needed to compliment what their stars can and can't do. If we sign a third max player, those opportunities won't be available, and we'll be right back to having a half-assed roster too dependent on vet min guys and being prisoners to the health and playoff availability of our stars. In other words, same old same old.

If that was your take away or the article was trying to make that point; then you both you and the author conveniently gloss over that the Celtics are currently TOP heavy with 4 guys making over 30 mil a year. Like, did you even bother to look at the Celtics payroll? The Celtics go 6 deep before hitting vet min guys. Like seriously, how in the world did you come away thinking the Celtics did it differently?

A better story is how the Mavs and Celtics have surrounded Luka and Tatum so that they don't have to carry a big load on their team’s defense. The same can be said for Jokic and Giannis.

You can’t be the team's go-to guy and the anchor of the defense at the same time.

As long as we have someone besides Embiid who can anchor the defense, like Draymond Green, we could even have Lavine instead of Maxey and surround them with 3&D guys and be fine.

Even Jordan had Rodman and Pippen for defense.

For me, it’s not the depth. It’s the roster make-up.

You can have a roster filled with Derrick Jones and Pj Washington but if you have Embiid anchoring your defense and also asking him to be the go to guy down the stretch, you’d fail because its too big of a load to sustain for a long high pressured stretch.

Monix wrote:

ProcessDoctor wrote:Plan Chicago Offseason


1. Absorb LaVine, Caruso, and #11 for #16
2. Draft Dalton Knecht at #11
3. Sign Kyle Anderson with room exception
4. Sign Cam Payne, Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Andre Drummond for vet mins


Maxey/Payne/Lowry
LaVine/Caruso/(project)
Knecht/Batum/Council
Anderson/Saric/Covington
Embiid/Drummond/(project)

I would do that trade but you need more athleticism at the 4, all 3 of those dudes may be cooked at this point

I agree. Could we sign Obi Toppin to fit that role? Is he even someone we should consider?

Black Mage wrote:

mjkvol wrote:

Black Mage wrote:
I'm not sure the topic of that article fits the narrative you want to promote. Jrue Holiday was 33 when they traded for him and gave him a contract. Also, the Sixers were in on Jrue; they just lacked the assets to beat the Celtics. Porzingis is 28, but was injury prone and had worn his welcome out in two different locations. If there is anything to take away from the Celtics; it is that they dumped one-dimensional players for guys that fit better around their stars and whose blemishes could be masked by their stars.

Dallas lucked into a discounted Kyrie who finally decided he would play ball again if he wanted a contract. When Brunson left, he had not yet reached the level he is at in NYC. He also isn't the shooter Kyrie is nor the ballhandler. Again, a team went out and got guys who fit even if they were older, injury prone or had other issues.

That article could literally be used to encourage the Sixers to target PG13 or Lebron as their "fit" is the best with what we have.

I took the article more as not recommending a top heavy, vet min-filled roster with zero depth, which is exactly what we'll have if Morey is shortsighted enough to bring in one of these geriatric max deal players. It isn't as much about age and health as it is roster fit, and being able to afford a solid 6-7 deep roster to compliment your stars.

However Dallas and Boston went about it, they located and had the assets and cap space to acquire useful pieces that fit what was needed to compliment what their stars can and can't do. If we sign a third max player, those opportunities won't be available, and we'll be right back to having a half-assed roster too dependent on vet min guys and being prisoners to the health and playoff availability of our stars. In other words, same old same old.

If that was your take away or the article was trying to make that point; then you both you and the author conveniently gloss over that the Celtics are currently TOP heavy with 4 guys making over 30 mil a year. Like, did you even bother to look at the Celtics payroll? The Celtics go 6 deep before hitting vet min guys. Like seriously, how in the world did you come away thinking the Celtics did it differently?

You’re just focusing on the result and not looking at how the Celtics actually got there. They organically built up a team over years and used some of those pieces to add the final touches to a championship team. There weren’t any max FA signings, nor did they empty all of their assets to get there.

To build around Embiid, you do it how every other great big was successful. You give him a pick and roll partner (Maxey) and surround with guys that shoot as flankers on the perimeter.

The Sixers already have the two hardest pieces to acquire. The rest of this should be relatively easy, as long as we pull our head out of our asses as an organization.

Go get some guys with a .400+ 3PAr that have enough size/athleticism to hang defensively and then we'd be a great contender (when healthy).

mjkvol wrote:

ProcessDoctor wrote:Plan Chicago Offseason


1. Absorb LaVine, Caruso, and #11 for #16
2. Draft Dalton Knecht at #11
3. Sign Kyle Anderson with room exception
4. Sign Cam Payne, Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Andre Drummond for vet mins


Maxey/Payne/Lowry
LaVine/Caruso/(project)
Knecht/Batum/Council
Anderson/Saric/Covington
Embiid/Drummond/(project)

Amazing, a plan revolving around bringing Lavine here that I can wholeheartedly endorse. Make it happen.

And what if Dalton Knecht isn't there at 11? He could very well go much higher than that. Would you still be on board with adding LaVine if that were the case? For me, if Knecht is there at 11...Then yeah...I roll with it, but if he's not, it makes trying to stomach Lavine a lot harder. I'm a biased UT fan, so that may be my problem.

Black Mage wrote:

mjkvol wrote:

Black Mage wrote:
I'm not sure the topic of that article fits the narrative you want to promote. Jrue Holiday was 33 when they traded for him and gave him a contract. Also, the Sixers were in on Jrue; they just lacked the assets to beat the Celtics. Porzingis is 28, but was injury prone and had worn his welcome out in two different locations. If there is anything to take away from the Celtics; it is that they dumped one-dimensional players for guys that fit better around their stars and whose blemishes could be masked by their stars.

Dallas lucked into a discounted Kyrie who finally decided he would play ball again if he wanted a contract. When Brunson left, he had not yet reached the level he is at in NYC. He also isn't the shooter Kyrie is nor the ballhandler. Again, a team went out and got guys who fit even if they were older, injury prone or had other issues.

That article could literally be used to encourage the Sixers to target PG13 or Lebron as their "fit" is the best with what we have.

I took the article more as not recommending a top heavy, vet min-filled roster with zero depth, which is exactly what we'll have if Morey is shortsighted enough to bring in one of these geriatric max deal players. It isn't as much about age and health as it is roster fit, and being able to afford a solid 6-7 deep roster to compliment your stars.

However Dallas and Boston went about it, they located and had the assets and cap space to acquire useful pieces that fit what was needed to compliment what their stars can and can't do. If we sign a third max player, those opportunities won't be available, and we'll be right back to having a half-assed roster too dependent on vet min guys and being prisoners to the health and playoff availability of our stars. In other words, same old same old.

If that was your take away or the article was trying to make that point; then you both you and the author conveniently gloss over that the Celtics are currently TOP heavy with 4 guys making over 30 mil a year. Like, did you even bother to look at the Celtics payroll? The Celtics go 6 deep before hitting vet min guys. Like seriously, how in the world did you come away thinking the Celtics did it differently?

PhillyFan11 beat me to it - the point isn't that there is only one way to get there, but the idea is locating players who fit your scheme and maintaining assets to be able to go and get them when opportunities arise. However the Celtics did it, they made sure they were always in a position to strike when opportunities presented themselves, and they didn't waste payroll on dead weight (ie Tobias).

There's also some chance involved, as in Dallas gambling on Kyrie and him growing up and becoming a leader. Their decision to tank last season netted them Lively, something I thought about when we decided to activate Embiid for a playoff run that had zero chance of success. It didn't happen overnight for either franchise, just as it took a few seasons for Denver to put together that championship team.

Anyone who seriously believes that one off season of signing an old max player and piecing together a roster made up of mostly vet mins will result in anything approaching a title run needs their head examined. If that's the plan, I would just as soon put Embiid on the market, tear it down, and rebuild starting with Maxey and draft capital.

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:

mjkvol wrote:

ProcessDoctor wrote:Plan Chicago Offseason


1. Absorb LaVine, Caruso, and #11 for #16
2. Draft Dalton Knecht at #11
3. Sign Kyle Anderson with room exception
4. Sign Cam Payne, Kyle Lowry, Nic Batum, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, and Andre Drummond for vet mins


Maxey/Payne/Lowry
LaVine/Caruso/(project)
Knecht/Batum/Council
Anderson/Saric/Covington
Embiid/Drummond/(project)

Amazing, a plan revolving around bringing Lavine here that I can wholeheartedly endorse. Make it happen.

And what if Dalton Knecht isn't there at 11? He could very well go much higher than that. Would you still be on board with adding LaVine if that were the case? For me, if Knecht is there at 11...Then yeah...I roll with it, but if he's not, it makes trying to stomach Lavine a lot harder. I'm a biased UT fan, so that may be my problem.

Obviously I am as well, and the answer is no. Knecht being there at 11 is the only way I do that deal.