ImageImageImage

Sixers @ Jazz 1/2/08

Moderators: HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, Foshan, sixers hoops, Sixerscan

wow444
Junior
Posts: 408
And1: 2
Joined: Jun 10, 2004
Location: Delaware
         

 

Post#141 » by wow444 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 5:15 pm

Agreed, the players are 90% and coaching is 10%. But don't you want the best coach you can get? I don't think Mo is a bad coach I just think the Sixers can do better. And the more I think about it, the more I think that coach is LB. I know, I know....I don't like his vagabond hopping from job to job any more than anyone else. I don't like him ripping his players in his press conferences either. But he did win a title and what has Detroit done lately? What about the Knicks? LB knows the game and he is by far the best coach we could get. It still might not happen because Comcast might balk at his salary demands. I don't think he bury's young players either. Hasn't he been proven right on Darko? He just makes players prove it in practice before he gives them time in games. I don't have a problem with that at all.
Don't worry, that builds character and you can never have too much character...
User avatar
IggyTheBEaST
RealGM
Posts: 14,452
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 31, 2003

 

Post#142 » by IggyTheBEaST » Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:07 pm

dbodner wrote:I can't believe we passed on brewer to take Carney :(

(this is not hindsight, either. I have recorded proof of my live reaction to the pick).


we all wanted brewer (or m. williams)

I think BIllys thinkign was he thought he could still get brewer at 16. Pick 13 was thabo, then he just needed 2 other players to be picked at the 14 and 15 slots to draft brewer at 16.

I think Cedrick Simmons was his backup, since the hornets took hilton, he assumed they wouldnt take simmons also, even if the jazz took brewer but the worst case scenario happened, both got taken in those 2 slots. This strategy hoewever, is no excuse, you see a player that you tartgeted is available, you take him. Im giving Billy the benfit of the doubt that brewer was a target, but im not sure which is dumber, not targeting ronnie, or targeting him and not drafted him
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,658
And1: 16,011
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

 

Post#143 » by Sixerscan » Thu Jan 3, 2008 6:15 pm

I'm pretty sure he always wanted Carney since they worked him out 2 or 3 times. Brewer didn't ever work out for them because he thought he was going higher, and that's probably why they passed on him, which was kind of silly.
SendEm
Banned User
Posts: 2,285
And1: 1
Joined: Dec 13, 2007

 

Post#144 » by SendEm » Thu Jan 3, 2008 9:29 pm

The mistake of the game is when Iggy didn't shoot the 3 pointer while down by 3 points with 26 seconds left on the clock after a stoppage in the game, could have been a Mo Cheeks timeout, can't recall and didn't read this thread yet. That also could have been a Mo Cheeks decision to prolong the game and foul, but with Kyle Korver shooting over 90% at the free throw line you know that method is not going to win the game for you. The Sixer's should have looked to tie the game instead of Iggy going for the drive in the lane and silly floater. Iggy already hit that half court 3 at the end of the half, I would have looked to tie the game then put the Jazz on the line to shoot 2, then come back down to shoot another 3 to attempt to win the game.
ojr107
Veteran
Posts: 2,529
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 04, 2003
Location: Bryn Mawr, PA

 

Post#145 » by ojr107 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 10:48 pm

the 44-38 team that JOB coached turned into a 38-44 team under Cheeks. The team was terrible defensively all year. He did okay in Portland, but its not like the team did better when he got there then before he did. With his contract being up this year, I see no reason to resign him long term instead of signing a proven winner.
freshie2
RealGM
Posts: 11,383
And1: 599
Joined: Jun 24, 2004

 

Post#146 » by freshie2 » Thu Jan 3, 2008 11:23 pm

Let's see how the season plays out...coaching in the NBA is pretty overrated...talent usually wins.
UptownPhilly
Analyst
Posts: 3,448
And1: 183
Joined: Jul 19, 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:
     

 

Post#147 » by UptownPhilly » Fri Jan 4, 2008 12:31 am

freshie2 wrote:Let's see how the season plays out...coaching in the NBA is pretty overrated...talent usually wins.


That sums it up. Like someone else mentioned you can have one of the best coaches in the league coach our current squad and we still won't win a championship.

Larry Brown took Iverson, Mutumbo, Mckie, and a bunch of average joes to the NBA Finals in 2000-2001, but inevitably lost to an equally impressive coach with the two most dominant players in the league.

If the Sixers are in a position like the Celtics where we can acquire talent by using our cap space wisely and making solid trades, I bet many people will stop blaming Mo Cheeks for our shortcomings.

Q: What ever happened to Doc Rivers being the worst coach in the NBA?
A: He was provided with players that know how to play the game, and now he owns the best record in the NBA.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,658
And1: 16,011
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

 

Post#148 » by Sixerscan » Fri Jan 4, 2008 12:53 am

Plays after TOs isn't totally a personnel thing though. Back when Brown was here we had a pretty crappy offense but the out of bounds plays were beautiful.

But you guys are right outside of little things like that, in game coaching really doesn't make a gigantic difference.
freshie2
RealGM
Posts: 11,383
And1: 599
Joined: Jun 24, 2004

 

Post#149 » by freshie2 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 1:04 am

You're right...there are small nuances where solid coaching is a big plus, but generally talent is the key. It's often more an issue of keeping big egos in line, and then having a solid assistant to draw up the in bounds play and shots after a TO. Cheeks could be better, but I honestly don't think he's been awful either.
SendEm
Banned User
Posts: 2,285
And1: 1
Joined: Dec 13, 2007

 

Post#150 » by SendEm » Fri Jan 4, 2008 1:47 am

Talent is NOT the key, having the right MIX of talent and placing those players in the right POSITION is what's key. The New York Knicks are talented, need I say more? The Detroit Pistons Championship year were not the most talented team in the league, they had a bunch of cast offs and unwanted players. But the GM put the right MIX of them together and the COACH put them all in the right POSITIONS on the court. NBA coaching is NOT overrated, However NBA HEAD coaching is a tad bit overrated. NBA head coaching is closer to Baseball managing than it is to NFL head coaching.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,658
And1: 16,011
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

 

Post#151 » by Sixerscan » Fri Jan 4, 2008 2:43 am

People always say the Knicks are talented but I just don't see it. QRich starts for them and he's shot over 40% once in the last six years (I know he takes a lot of threes but still).

I think "talented" is just a code word for "overrated." Marbury, Curry, QRich, Robinson, Crawford, all those guys have way too much buzz for being as average (or worse) as all of them have been the last couple years.

That said I did think the Knicks were going to challenge for a playoff spot this year. I'm an idiot.
ojr107
Veteran
Posts: 2,529
And1: 0
Joined: Dec 04, 2003
Location: Bryn Mawr, PA

 

Post#152 » by ojr107 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 3:37 am

Its because alot of people overrate the importance of physical talent and ignore the importance of other talents. Korver can't run fast or jump high, but he is incredibly talented at shooting. The Knicks have way too little of skill talents, especially the talent of shooting.
tk76
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,615
And1: 734
Joined: Jul 21, 2006

 

Post#153 » by tk76 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 3:44 am

People also underate the impact of having a team full of self centered players who are either lazy or not team oriented.
The Sixer Fixer
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,821
And1: 60
Joined: Jan 09, 2007
       

 

Post#154 » by The Sixer Fixer » Fri Jan 4, 2008 4:33 am

The Knicks are made up of a bunch of "talented" offensive players. And when I say offensive, I mean they can score, that's it. Not a single starter on that team wants to pass the ball or can play a lick of D though. They are an absolutely horrible team on defense. How do you start 2 post players where neither guy can defend? Thomas is an idiot if he thought/thinks that was going to work.

When I think of the word "talented" (when referring to players), I envision players who can do a bit of everything and play good team basketball. By that definition, I don't really count any Knick, except maybe David Lee, as a "talented" player. Yes, some have offensive talent, but if you have no D talent, it's makes you an average overall player at best.
SendEm
Banned User
Posts: 2,285
And1: 1
Joined: Dec 13, 2007

 

Post#155 » by SendEm » Fri Jan 4, 2008 4:37 am

tk76 wrote:People also underate the impact of having a team full of self centered players who are either lazy or not team oriented.


That's where the coaching comes in.

Phil Jackson and Pat Riley could get those same Knicks players into the playoffs in the east as assembled.
tk76
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,615
And1: 734
Joined: Jul 21, 2006

 

Post#156 » by tk76 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 4:40 am

Fixer, I think you are overstating it. Lee is not even the best player on that team.

Many of the players on the Knicks could be successful on other teams where they could fill a role as a scorer. Its just Zeke's mad scientis experiment of putting all of them together that minimizes each individuals ability to reach their potential.

Put some of those guys on teams with Nash, Miller, Kidd or even Iguodala, and they are decent player.
The Sixer Fixer
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,821
And1: 60
Joined: Jan 09, 2007
       

 

Post#157 » by The Sixer Fixer » Fri Jan 4, 2008 4:41 am

SendEm wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That's where the coaching comes in.

Phil Jackson and Pat Riley could get those same Knicks players into the playoffs in the east as assembled.


Pat Riley? You serious....?

You referring to the same guy who has lead the Heat to a record of 8-24 so far...that Pat Riley?
tk76
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 9,615
And1: 734
Joined: Jul 21, 2006

 

Post#158 » by tk76 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 4:45 am

SendEdm, they need a coach and a real pg... and that would just be a start. what they really need is to be blown up. They are the Jailblazers East- without the real criminal edge.
Sixerscan
Senior Mod - 76ers
Senior Mod - 76ers
Posts: 33,658
And1: 16,011
Joined: Jan 25, 2005

 

Post#159 » by Sixerscan » Fri Jan 4, 2008 4:54 am

ojr107 wrote:Its because alot of people overrate the importance of physical talent and ignore the importance of other talents. Korver can't run fast or jump high, but he is incredibly talented at shooting. The Knicks have way too little of skill talents, especially the talent of shooting.


What are their "physical talents" though? I don't get what that means. Are you saying athleticism? Because 3 of their top 4 guys are Marbury, Curry, and Randolph, not the most agile group.
freshie2
RealGM
Posts: 11,383
And1: 599
Joined: Jun 24, 2004

 

Post#160 » by freshie2 » Fri Jan 4, 2008 12:21 pm

SendEm wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That's where the coaching comes in.

Phil Jackson and Pat Riley could get those same Knicks players into the playoffs in the east as assembled.


When was the last time Phil or Pat coached a team that didn't have at least one HOF player? There's only one coach I can think of that could get this team to the playoffs, and he's got bigger issues to deal with than an NBA franchise.

The Knicks/Jailblazers comparison is very accurate...they have some talent, but no great players, and no character players/leaders to guide them. Their players appear to have self perceived greatness b/c someone overpaid them greatly at some point, but they really need to be blown up and start the whole thing over. Even the few chips they have would have to be traded in order to dump some of the garbage.

Return to Philadelphia 76ers