A question for the older fans- Moses and Daugherty trades

[Mahorn at the 4]

I was too young at the time to realize what was going on. I knew Moses was good, but I was too young to understand the deal. Same with the Daugherty/Hinson deal. I was barely a teenager, and this was long before the team coverage was worth noting.

How could they make these deals? Did they not know of Ruland's injuries? Moses was still a big producer. Who were the 2 # 1's that went with Moses.

And the Daugherty deal? Can you imagine a front line with Moses, Charles and Daugherty?

I am history buff, please amuse me here and fill em in on what the reactions were back then.

Can you imagine if there had been internet and message boards back then? Poor Sixerfa1976 would be bombarded after those 2 deals.

Thanks in advance!!!

[bigdavid]

We have a history of stupid trades.

[sec-106]

Can you imagine a front line with Moses, Charles and Daugherty?

I could and I did.

But Harold "I Know More Than You, And You, And You And You And You" didn't.

[34Charles]

I remember seeing the trades on a ESPN ticker like it was yesterday. I'm not sure which one I was more upset with......Cliff Robinson and Ruland for Moses Malone and Terry Catledge or the infamous #1 overall pick to Cleveland for Roy Hinson and CASH!!!!! The two #1 picks were Anthony Jones #21 1986 & Harvey Grant #12 (1988)

[bebopdeluxe]

Obviously, in retrospect, the Moses/Daugherty deals look like an unmitigated disaster...but once you add the context, it may make more sense...

The Sixers had lost in the first round of the playoffs to the Nets the year after the title ('83-'84)...and looked pretty bad in doing it. Moses looked old...still the same old "put it up and get your own rebound" stuff that he had been doing for years, but it was getting increasingly unproductive. The Sixers offense was a plodding, almost "threre yards and a cloud of dust" halfcourt set. Bleecchh. They got back to the EC Finals in '84-'85 (losing to the Celtics), but the following year they regressed, squeaking by the Bullets in the first round, but losing to the Bucks in the 2nd round (the infamous "Mother's Day" playoff game where they had something like 10,000 fans at the Spectrum).

Meanwhile, down in Washington, Jeff Ruland was this brusing, almost athletic center who had one of the best outlet passes in the game (Ruland was an EXCELLENT passer, which was another thing sorely lacking in Moses' game). But this was not all that they were trying to achieve...

Just as the Celtics went out and got Dennis Johnson to try to stop Andrew Toney, the Sixers needed somebody who could match up with our own defensive nightmare of an assignment - Kevin McHale. He regularly ate up the Sixers, and we had nobody to stop him. Now, in that same prior playoff season, the Cleveland Cavaliers went right down to the wire with the Celtics (a very good Celtics team)...losing the best-of-5 series in Boston on one of the all-time ref-jam-jobs in history. I remember watching that game - it was PATHETIC. Some of you may of heard of the total meltdown that a very young George Karl had with the media after the game (he was branded a hothead because of that post-game press conference, and after he lost the Cavs job, he was out of the league for quite a while). Anyway, in that series, Roy Hinson did an EXCELLENT job of harassing McHale...long arms, very athletic...not letting McHale get to his spots...very impressive.

Now the consensus 1st rouond pick that year was Brad Daugherty - but many people (yours truly included) thought that he was a big-time softee...his UNC team lost to Villanova in 1985, and he was PWNED by Pinckney...many at the time thought that he would be a REALLY weak #1 pick (partly due to the "he's a senior, so how good can he be?" thought process that probably had something to do with our not drafting Paul Pierce, for example).

So, the Sixers thought that - in one bold day - they would upgrade their athleticism at center (Ruland) and get their McHale-stopper (Hinson)...while there will still vestiges of the old team there ('86-'87 was Doc's last year...Cheeks was still there, but was begging to slow down a bit...Toney missed much of '85-'86 with a stress fracture, but they were hoping to get him healthy), they were trying to move away from the plodding half-court team they have become to a more athletic team.

To say that it didn't work out as they planned is a bit of an understatement.

However - going back to that time, I certainly understood their thought process, and it made sense to me. It's a shame that Ruland and Hinson turned out to be such damaged goods.

[freshie2]

Moses did look old, and Daugherty was supposed to be soft, but it still was the worst punch in the stomach I ever felt. I remember I was at my neighbor's house lifting weights when it was reported on the radio...I was sick the whole day.

[tk76]

I remember I hardley even knew who Roy Hinson was, and all of the sudden he was replacing our #1 pick. It was shocking, and I do not remember anyone defending the Sixer's reasoning at the time as well as Bebop just did.

Moses was slowing down, and Ruland was a beast- but it was known he was seriously hurt. I guess we just figured he would recover?

[is1531]

I was too young at the time to realize what was going on. I knew Moses was good, but I was too young to understand the deal. Same with the Daugherty/Hinson deal. I was barely a teenager, and this was long before the team coverage was worth noting.

How could they make these deals? Did they not know of Ruland's injuries? Moses was still a big producer. Who were the 2 # 1's that went with Moses.

And the Daugherty deal? Can you imagine a front line with Moses, Charles and Daugherty?

I am history buff, please amuse me here and fill em in on what the reactions were back then.

Can you imagine if there had been internet and message boards back then? Poor Sixerfa1976 would be bombarded after those 2 deals.

Thanks in advance!!!

Two weeks before the trade I called the 76ers office warning them not to trade Moses.Rumor had it that Harold Katz was going to deal him,probably because we lost to the Nets in Round 1 in 1983-1984 without winning a home game,then lost to Boston the folowing year in the playoffs in 5 games,then in 1985-1986 we lost to the Bucks in 7 in Round 2 with Toney and Moses out for this series.Katz was just sick of Malone.I guess he felt we would not get another title.

The 76ers made a trade around 2am in the morning just 10 hours before the 12 pm draft in New York.The decided to trade Moses to Washington for Ruland and Cliff Robinson and we had to throw in 2 ist round picks,.Ruland was a good rebounder at the time,but he got hurt in an exhibition game after we picked him up,then got reinjured against the Pacers on opening night at the Spectrum in the same game Clark Kellogg suffered a career knee injury.

Days befroe the draft Red Aurbach was saying,the 76ers better take Daugherty otherwise we will with the 2nd pick.We traded the pick and Boston chose Len Bias,who was a great player at Maryland,but he left the draft after being picked and we never saw him alive again.That is what the power of drugs can do to you.Less than a week before the draft Larry Bird in the Boston papers stated that,the 76ers will blow the draft.

The 76ers traded the ist pick in the draft to Cleveland for only Roy Hinson,who was a 6ft 9" bust for the 76ers.In the meantime the Cavs were still allowed to keep their charity pick ,which was the 8th pick,that was given to them by the league under the Ted Stepian rule,which stated you could no longer trade ist round picks 2 years in a row.Gordon Gund bought the team in 1983 from Ted Stepian,but the charity pick was not made until 1986 .Now with the 8th pick the Cavs chose Ron Harper,who was a great player for Cleveland.The Cavs never beat the Bulls in the playoffs,but they gave them fits.One year earlier they drafted Hod Rod Williams,who was a standout player at 6ft 11".He was not permitted to play for the Cavs in 1985,due to some gambling violations.

The 76ers turned down a deal for Bill Lambeer and Vinny Johson,which would have sent Moses to Detriot,but the 76ers chose the Bullets deal.

Perhaps a deal, that basically 76ers fans changed the mind of Harold Katz, took place in 1984.Katz had a deal in place with the Bucks to trade Erving for Tery Cummings.That would have been a steal for the 76ers,but the fans anger sort of made Katz change his mind.It probably was also going to cause the 76ers to toss in a draft pick.

[freshie2]

Wasn't the Doc for Cummings deal with the Clippers? Then there was the Doc to Utah deal as well...if I'm remembering correctly.

[BobbyJones]

Not much to add to what has already been written other than that Moses had developed something of an attitude and was really focussing on his own stats. His shooting percentage was poor for a big guy who played under the basket, although it did help him to boost his offensive rebounds.

The consensus at the time (albeit very short lived) was that the Sixers had been able to rebuild on the fly, getting younger and more athletic in one offseason. We didn't miss much with Daugherty, who had a solid career, but was no Hall of Famer. The number one picks hardly became household names (take Horace instead of Harvey and maybe it would have looked different), and neither Moses nor Catledge went on to star post Sixers.

So it all came down to if only Ruland and Hinson hadn't been injured. Then again, if only my aunt had balls.....but she doesn't, and they did. It would have been fun to watch that team - Ruland, Barkley, Hinosn would have been a very tough front line, but it was not to be.

And yes, it was Doc to the Clippers for Terry Cummings.

[barkley34]

Harold Katz was one of the main reasons they acquired Moses. Great move, unfortunately a negative side effect was that it gave him confidence he actually knew what he was doing as an owner instead of listening to his basketball people. He became too hands on, like a Jerry Jones type.

This is no joke it was reported that Katz actually had Daugherty work out on the hoop in his driveway of his mansion and after the workout Katz decided he was too soft so they traded the pick for Roy Hinson.

Ruland was a really good player but was damaged goods and didn't do anything here. We also got Cliff Robinson in that deal who was a pretty good shooter.

Those two horrible deals and the fact we lost a great player like Andrew Toney with a career ending injury pretty much killed Barkley's chances of winning a title here.

[is1531]

Wasn't the Doc for Cummings deal with the Clippers? Then there was the Doc to Utah deal as well...if I'm remembering correctly.

Cummings was on the Clippers at the time.Their was another deal with Utah,which I think involved Adrian Dantley.Dantley was a great player with Utah and then later with Detriot,before he was dealt to Dallas in the Mark Aguirre deal,which was rumored to be engineered by former Piston Isiah Thomas.