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Would we be the best running team in the league - in the history of the league? I was watching some highlights of Smith http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocaatPvI ... re=related and recalling some of the dunkfests we've put on with Carney, Williams, Thad, and Iguodala and just couldn't help but think, how awesome would it be to have him at the 4? The guy seems like the natural candidate for the position based on how we run the offense. I honestly think we could run just about any team (the Suns included) out of the gym with a lineup of Williams, Iguodala, Thaddeus, Smith, and Sam. And it's not as though these guys are stiffs on defense either. Thaddeus is proving to be a stud on D. Iguodala was already pretty skilled on D, and Sam isn't so bad himself. I don't know where Smith's defense rates but I would venture to say it's pretty good based on what I've seen of him when we've played the Hawks.

Now, I'm not saying we don't need a PF with post moves. But I would really try hard to make Jason Smith that guy. That means getting him a big man coach ASAP.

STChaser

we'd be the most athletic team ever, maybe. we would rock the nba olympics.

But best running team ever?


"you kidding me?"

While Smith would be the perfect PF for the style we run today, I'm not so sure he's the best long-term fit (and we HAVE to think long-term with any FA signing).

Do we run this style ONLY because of the personnel we have now (basically we can't play in the half-court)? Is the intention to just build an all-athletic team? I sure hope not. There hasn't been a team I know of to ever win a title with that style. The Suns are the closest thing and there talent level FAR exceeds what we would have even if we add Smith.

I really hope we don't fall into the trap of just signing someone cause they are the best of what we can get. I would rather hold the cap space to next year when Miller also expires then go from there. Ed needs to be selective and build the team the right way. Would the fans flip out of we sit on the cap space this year? Probably, but Ed needs to ignore that. He can't let the fans dictate the moves he makes. Heck, it's not like people are going to the games now anyhow. Not like they are going to lose any significant vloume of fans by trying to convince people that no one is worth spending big $$ on this offseason.

LOL. Then again, if this core were able to grow together, who knows what their limits would be. I do know that as of right now, teams don't like playing us because our guys try hard most nights and we're very athletic. You throw Josh Smith into the mix and I wouldn't want to play us. Between stopping Iguodala, Smith, Thad, Sam, or Williams, most teams would have their hands full. And we're not even running plays for Thad yet. Wait until we integrate him into the offense...

STChaser

SixerFixer, even if we hold out, how many PF's are there out there that are that much better than Smith - and who would be willing to come here? Big name PF's want to play out west. They'd sooner chose TX or LA over Philly. Also, I don't want a used-up, veteran PF like Webber coming here. I would rather take my chances on Smith because he's young enough to be our long-term answer.

I hear your argument about "style" and how the Suns style doesn't translate into winning it all. But then again, "style" changes all the time in the NBA and it takes a clear vision to sometimes rewrite the chapter on how to put a team together. Jordan and Pippen won championships with a one-two punch and an excellent outside shooter in Kerr, but Chicago never really had a dominant big man. Then, the Lakers and Spurs came along with Duncan and Shaq and we saw another style work. There is nothing that says that a team that runs can't win it all. It just hasn't happened yet. At some point, it may, and then everyone will be saying that is the system to follow.

STChaser

The Sixer Fixer wrote:While Smith would be the perfect PF for the style we run today, I'm not so sure he's the best long-term fit (and we HAVE to think long-term with any FA signing).

I know you didn't mean "perfect" as in... you know... PERFECT, right? Perfect implies that there is no better and I would argue that there are a lot of PFs that would be better for this style of play or any style of play.

STChaser wrote:SixerFixer, even if we hold out, how many PF's are there out there that are that much better than Smith - and who would be willing to come here? Big name PF's want to play out west. They'd sooner chose TX or LA over Philly. Also, I don't want a used-up, veteran PF like Webber coming here. I would rather take my chances on Smith because he's young enough to be our long-term answer.

STChaser

I don't agree that big name PF's want to play out West. Where did that idea come from? They will go where they either think they have a better chance to win or where the $$ is. It's easier to make the finals coming out the East right now since there's so few great teams. I'm not saying I don't want Smith, the only concern I have is we wouldn't have a single starter who is a good 3 pt shooter or post player if we sign someone like Smith. I'm just not sure if that's the proper way to construct a winning team. Obviously guys like Iguodala and Thad could become great outside shooters, but I'm not going to hold my breath on the that. Also, Smith could become a reliable post option, but again, he's shown no desire/ability to do that so far.

My take is, with more time come other (possible better) options. A PF might come, in the next 2 years, via the draft, he might come via a trade or he might come via FA. All I'm saying is if our option this offseason comes down to Smith and Ed doesn't want to build a team of soley athletes who all have similair skill sets, then I would rather wait until next year. A lot of things can happen over another year and a better option may become available. Sure, there is no guaratee with that, but I don't want the quick fix. If it takes 2-3 years to find that PF, then fine. Maybe we find one of the other pieces (long term PG or a prototypical SG) if we can't find the PF. This is an extreemly young team so it's not like we are going to be title contenders in the next 2-3 years anyhow.

The Guilty Party wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I know you didn't mean "perfect" as in... you know... PERFECT, right? Perfect implies that there is no better and I would argue that there are a lot of PFs that would be better for this style of play or any style of play.

Obviously, I didn't mean PERFECT. It was used for effect based on the premise of the thread.

I'm warming up to the idea of adding Josh Smith more and more. While he doesn't fill the low post void, he would certainly be an intriguing player to add to the mix. Imagine Iguodala, Young, and Smith not just in the open floor, but defensively. These 3 have the speed/athleticism to consistently cause deflections, interrupt passing lanes, and turn defense into offense.

What if we get that 3 point specialist in the form of a bench player? A cheaper version of Korver perhaps. What if Jason Smith becomes that low post presence at the 4. How would that change your feelings about getting Jason Smith?

The other factor I like about Smith is his blocking abilities. We'd have both Sam and Smith igniting the fast break with their abilities to alter and block shots. I'm not sure many teams would want to take it inside on us with those two waiting by the rim.

STChaser

The Suns have a HOF pg, great three point shooters and athletes. we would have some decent shooters and great athletes and LW running the point.

We would be fun to watch, and who knows, maybe those players would develop into more effecient half court players over time.

Would we be the best running team in the league - in the history of the league?

IMO, no.

We'd have one of the more athletic starting-fives ever, but without rebounding and outlet passing, I think we'd struggle to run against certain teams.

Think back to when Derrick Coleman was here and motivated. He might have been one of the ten slowest players in the nba, but was a huge asset in rebounding and quickly passing to the guys who would score the fast break points.

When your team is in a funk,
and you want a fastbreak dunk.

That's Amare!!!

IMO, Amare is the perfect fit for this team but Amare is going nowhere fast. Do you think a smaller PF like Tyrus Thomas could be a good fit here?

Josh Smith is a gimmick player and he will not be a part of a Championship team until he either becomes a better rebounder or a better outside shooter. I do not see that happening...

LOL! SendEm would jump off of the Ben Franklin Bridge if he had to watch Iguodala and Smith on the same team.

Josh Smith is a gimmick player

So was Iverson with his no defense, no practice, poor FG % mentality and he got us to the finals with a much worse supporting cast. I think Smith would do just fine alongside Iguodala, Lou Williams, Sam, and Thaddeus.

STChaser

I'm not sure where Smith fits into my ideal off-season plans but he's probably a Plan C and so I wouldn't be upset if we overpaid to get him but I would be very cautious about it.

STChaser wrote:What if we get that 3 point specialist in the form of a bench player? A cheaper version of Korver perhaps. What if Jason Smith becomes that low post presence at the 4. How would that change your feelings about getting Jason Smith?

The other factor I like about Smith is his blocking abilities. We'd have both Sam and Smith igniting the fast break with their abilities to alter and block shots. I'm not sure many teams would want to take it inside on us with those two waiting by the rim.

STChaser

I think you have to have at least 1 3pt specialist who is a starter. It's great to have that off the bench too (with a guy like Korver), but you need to be able to start and finish games with outside shooting too. If we are going to constuct the team with a PF like Josh Smith, then I do think that lessens the need for outside shooters (not saying this is a goot thing) since Smith isn't a guy who plays much the post (rihgt now) so it's not going to open up anything for him.

Not sure I see Jason Smith being the low post threat either. He seems to be most comfortable facing the basket.

I have said before that I would love to have Josh Smith on the Sixers. My argument is I would want him as a future SF on this team. I really think he offers more at that spot on the court. I would support going after him and using him at PF until we get that true PF, but I just don't want him if the intention is for him to be the long term solution at PF. I could live with a year or 2 of him playing there though. Where does that leave Thad and Iguodala? Not sure, but they both will have significant trade value (mainly Iguodala right now of course). It's possible they could be used to acquire a true SG or PF.

History tells us to be be a title contender, you need to have 2 things. Good shooters and a low post game (or Michael Jordan). Right now we have neither. Is it possible for someone to break that mold? I guess, but I can't imagine the odds are very high and I would not want to waste another 5-6 years trying to find out.

I like Josh Smith. He's long, athletic, and a stud of a shot blocker. I think he's an impact player. And that's the one thing the board has not understood: ALL title teams had impact players, including the Pistons(They had 2 game-changing players, Billups and Wallace.)

ironic i was just talking about this yesterday with my buddies. We need to go HARD after Smith and have him at the 4. Him and Dalembert would be the best shotblocking 4-5 combo in league history and Iggy, Lou Will and J Smoove would be one of the best young trios in the league. Force for years is right.