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John Hollinger Drools over Thadeous Young
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:57 pm
by Mozy-76er Fan
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:00 pm
by sec-106
I love that he doesn't take bad shots.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:04 pm
by ankle420breaker
I'm glad that was said.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:04 pm
by darius08
wouldn't it be ironic if BK's last real act as a GM was to hand his successor the superstar we need.
Never mind. His last act was signing calvin booth.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:43 pm
by corwin
Cutting Byars without ever seeing him in a game & signing Calvin Booth seem like much more fitting memories to me.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:53 pm
by dbodner
corwin wrote:Cutting Byars without ever seeing him in a game & signing Calvin Booth seem like much more fitting memories to me.
and much more inconsequential.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:54 pm
by Skates
darius08 wrote:wouldn't it be ironic if BK's last real act as a GM was to hand his successor the superstar we need.
Never mind. His last act was signing calvin booth.
Hey BK and DiLeo have had some good drafts, you just don't want BK doing anything beyond the draft like, for example, making horrible trades, signing crappy free agents to unreasonable deals, giving your own players ridiculous extensions and generally letting the players walk all over him and his coaches, you know, that sort of stuff.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:56 pm
by Fire BK
corwin wrote:Cutting Byars without ever seeing him in a game & signing Calvin Booth seem like much more fitting memories to me.
Totally. While BK made a sweet pick with Thad at 12, he completely botched the draft overall... Anytime you have FOUR picks in one draft and THREE in the first round, you've got to come away with more than 1 starter... He just kept trading down, and swapping out value for nothing. He did a good job with pick #12, but the other 3 picks were not maximized. These were some of his only assets and he didn't package them for more value. He diluted them for less.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:17 pm
by dbodner
I'd much rather have had him hit a home run on 12 and miss on 20/30 than to have hit on 20 + 30 and miss on 12. Odds are you don't get starters that late in the first round. Jason Smith might turn into a marginal bench player. That's about the best you could have expected from the draft IMO.
That being said, I'm not 100% sold on Thaddeus as a superstar. A good player? Sure. Possibly an all-star if things go well? Maybe. superstar? I'm not holding my breath. As much as he has a lot of positives (included in that a great work ethic and basketball IQ), he still has some very real deficiencies. I do have to say that his lack of handle hasn't hurt him as much as it was earlier in the season.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:52 pm
by is1531
dbodner wrote:I'd much rather have had him hit a home run on 12 and miss on 20/30 than to have hit on 20 + 30 and miss on 12. Odds are you don't get starters that late in the first round. Jason Smith might turn into a marginal bench player. That's about the best you could have expected from the draft IMO.
That being said, I'm not 100% sold on Thaddeus as a superstar. A good player? Sure. Possibly an all-star if things go well? Maybe. superstar? I'm not holding my breath. As much as he has a lot of positives (included in that a great work ethic and basketball IQ), he still has some very real deficiencies. I do have to say that his lack of handle hasn't hurt him as much as it was earlier in the season.
The 76ers call very few plays for Thaddeus Young,which does not expose his weakness in handling the ball.However that works both ways.If you do not get the ball enough and dribble the ball a little more,then how will he handle the ball better,when he eventually returns to his natural position of small forward.
Here is something that may blow people's minds.Their is a possibility Young may not be a starter next season,but instead would be the 76ers 6th man playing quality minutes.Here is the catch.The 76ers would have to click on their draft at PF and start that player, or sign a PF and start him.
Now people are thinking in their minds,just put Iggy at the 2 guard and put Thad back to his natural position at SF.Here is why it doesn't work; The 76ers are last in 3 point shooting.That is the team's 2nd biggest problem.You do not correct your 2nd biggest problem but moving Iggy and Thad around and not coming up with a player that can not hit shots from Happyland.However if the 76ers get their 3 point shooter, ideally I want to see the team have a inside outside game.
It's not who starts the game,but more importantly who finishes the game.I remember Bobby Jones finishing games for the 76ers back in 1982-1983,which is a year that will be cherished forever by 76ers fans.
Our bench needs a big upgrade anyway,but having Green come off the bench with Thaddeus,Lou Williams and James Smith would look pretty good.
With all that being said,I love Thaddeus as a prospect for the 76ers,but his team is a long way from contending.Elton Brand or Josh Smith would give the 76ers credibility,but a 3 point shooter and a power forward would fill the seats at the Wachovia.Remember we have the 4th worst attendance in the league,so that is something that Stefansky will have to address.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:54 pm
by is1531
is1531 wrote:dbodner wrote:I'd much rather have had him hit a home run on 12 and miss on 20/30 than to have hit on 20 + 30 and miss on 12. Odds are you don't get starters that late in the first round. Jason Smith might turn into a marginal bench player. That's about the best you could have expected from the draft IMO.
That being said, I'm not 100% sold on Thaddeus as a superstar. A good player? Sure. Possibly an all-star if things go well? Maybe. superstar? I'm not holding my breath. As much as he has a lot of positives (included in that a great work ethic and basketball IQ), he still has some very real deficiencies. I do have to say that his lack of handle hasn't hurt him as much as it was earlier in the season.
The 76ers call very few plays for Thaddeus Young,which does not expose his weakness in handling the ball.However that works both ways.If you do not get the ball enough and dribble the ball a little more, then how will he handle the ball better,when he eventually returns to his natural position of small forward.
Here is something that may blow people's minds.Their is a possibility Young may not be a starter next season, but instead would be the 76ers 6th man playing quality minutes.Here is the catch.The 76ers would have to click on their draft pick at PF and start that player, or sign a PF and start him.
Now people are thinking in their minds,just put Iggy at the 2 guard and put Thad back to his natural position at SF.Here is why it doesn't work; The 76ers are last in 3 point shooting.That is the team's 2nd biggest problem.You do not correct your 2nd biggest problem by moving Iggy and Thad around and not coming up with a player that can not hit shots from Happyland.However, if the 76ers get their 3 point shooter, ideally I want to see the team have a inside outside game.
It's not who starts the game,but more importantly who finishes the game.I remember Bobby Jones finishing games for the 76ers back in 1982-1983,which is a year that will be cherished forever by 76ers fans.
Our bench needs a big upgrade anyway,but having Green come off the bench with Thaddeus, Lou Williams and James Smith would look pretty good.
With all that being said,I love Thaddeus as a prospect for the 76ers,but his team is a long way from contending.Elton Brand or Josh Smith would give the 76ers credibility,but a 3 point shooter and a power forward would fill the seats at the Wachovia.Remember we have the 4th worst attendance in the league,so that is something that Stefansky will have to address.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:08 pm
by Youseff
Expecting one marginal bench player at best when you have three picks, the best being the 20th in the entire draft, really illustrates the sad state of affairs in Philly sports.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:10 pm
by dbodner
Youseff wrote:Expecting one marginal bench player at best when you have three picks, the best being the 20th in the entire draft, really illustrates the sad state of affairs in Philly sports.
It's the sad state of the nbadraft, which doesn't generally produce starters in the bottom third of the first round.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Cha ... ound-1529/
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:09 am
by freshie2
I disagree somewhat in this case, and am harping on the issue again, but they should have never traded Koponen and Fesenko. Down the road, they could be steals, and they exchanged them for players that will be lucky to have 3 year NBA careers. A young tall PG, and a young 7' center were in their hands, and they traded them for nothing. I really hope they were traded for $$/business reasons b/c for basketball reasons it really makes no sense.
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:08 am
by Salvistine24
For every calderon, there are dozens of jiri welsh's...for every kristic, there are dozens of rentzias...
these foreign guys are such mysteries that i understand the intrigue...but if they were great prospects, theyd wouldve went higher than 30 and 37...and now everyone acts as if they are a foreign scout...id be most ppl hadnt seen more than a youtube highlight pack of both guys (koponen and fesenko)...they might come over seas to america and dominate...and i know that fesenko has done well in d league but i wouldnt put my faith into those guys
dbods is right...the hit rate on those guys is so low we really shouldnt stress too much...now if ur argument is bk shouldve used the 20th pick and 30th and 37th to trade up to 16...maybe but even if they went there, you were getting jason smith...late picks dont have value...thats why the iverson trade was a farce...2 picks...yeah 2 picks in the 20s/30s...
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:35 am
by dbodner
I can't really complain about Hill over Fazekas. Hill looked really good IMO before the injury, probably better than Fazekas. Thems just the breaks.
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:57 am
by Skates
Fesenko being traded to the Jazz was a done deal long before the draft. It was part of the Utah Jazz deal where they took Alan Henderson off of our hands to get us under the luxury cap last season. In return we received the right to switch places in the second round with the Jazz. Obviously we would not have switched since they had the later pick, but I believe it was a handshake and a wink kind of a deal that BK honored.
Koponen was also not a pick we would have made, we picked him for Portland after the trade was agreed on during the draft. The sad thing is Koponen and Fesenko were two of my favorite project players in the late first, early second round. It felt like a kick in the gut when we picked and later traded both of them. Both moves were motivated by saving money. They thought Byars would agree to being stashed overseas, but he didn't go for that.
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:56 am
by Youseff
Thanks for the good read, even though it was irrelevant to your above statement. But lets assume for this model the Sixers had three second round picks.
Per this graph:
The Sixers should of had a 93% chance of getting a player better than a "marginal bench player!"
If it was a semantics issue, and I misunderstood you, and your definition started at "top bench/marginal starter," they should have had a 48% chance of getting a player better than a "marginal bench player." Certainly not a certainty, but high enough that a flippant or dismissive attitude about a lack of success is surely indicative of a sad state of the Philly sports fan base!
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:24 am
by dbodner
Thanks for the good read, even though it was irrelevant to your above statement
Not really. It linked directly to data on the end of the first round, too. Here's the data:
And yes, we are now arguing semantics. Let's look at this stat:
That says 66% of those drafted in the top of the second round will be out of the league. about 19% will be a "top of the bench or better" player.
We currently got a top of the bench player in jason smith, at least according to stefanski, who said he could be a definite top 8 guy. We got 1 guy who's out of the league (Byars), and one guy who looked pretty damn good to me before his injury (Hill). Seems we're doing actually a little better than league average in that regard (which gives us about a 34% chance that one of those 3 will provide a better than top of the bench guy). Certainly not enough to get upset about the draft, and most definitely not enough to take away from the great positive that drafting Thaddeus Young has provided.
In my mind, they found solid contributors in two out of those 3 picks. They've had some bad luck with Herbert Hill, but that was out of the Sixers control as it's injury related and happened after the draft. Getting 2 guys who can contribute out of those 3 picks seems like a pretty good job to me.
From a team that has consistently gotten production out of second round picks (going all the way back to Todd MacCulloch, and including recent contributors Kyle Korver, Willie Green and Louis Williams), Billy King certainly did above league average. With Thaddeus Young having been drafted being a great positive on this franchise, why would the fact that we're not getting production out of the 30th and 38th pick put you up in arms? Are we the first team to not get production out of second round picks? Do we historically do terrible on second round picks? Do you expect a 100% hit rate on second round picks? I'm just trying to figure out where the disgust comes from.
They had 4 picks. One lottery, and that player seems like a potential star. One bottom 3rd of the first round, and that player seems like a top bench player. Two second round picks, one of which they missed on, and one of which they had bad luck due to injury. When looking at the big picture and how these picks generally do in the NBA, I think the draft turned out pretty darned well. Hitting at 12 (and to a lesser extent 20) has a much more profound importance than missing on a pair of second round picks, especially since one of those misses is injury related, and that we've hit on them in the past.
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:31 am
by SendEm
Thad just may be the reason why Iggy is traded. Thad has the potential to be a great rebounder at the SF position and he loves playing close to the basket with his high shooting percentage and crafty moves. Iggy is a cross between a SF and a SG. He will never be a great rebounder for a SG/SF and his preference is not to play close to the basket but hang out just short of the 3 point line. Iggy is 24, Thad is 19 and Thad still has the potential to develop into a better driver than Iggy. Iggy might just be shipped out this summer.
