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Iguodala - Our Kobe Bryant?

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Iguodala - Our Kobe Bryant? 

Post#1 » by STChaser » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:12 pm

During the Spurs game, Williams made a coverage error, allowing Parker an easy basket. Iguodala spent the next few seconds berating Williams for his mistake. But as Iguodala passed the 76ers' bench, Cheeks quietly pulled him aside.

The message: You're not wrong to be mad at Williams but if you're going to yell at him, do it in the privacy of the locker room. And thus, both Iguodala and Williams were spared embarrassment.


Complaining to the officials after every play. Bitching at his teammates when they make mistakes. Visibly showing his frustration when things don't go his way. Expecting special treatment among his peers. And then there's the flip-side; Trying to be the clutch player. Working his butt off in the offseason to improve his jumper. Taking it hard to the hole and drawing contact repeatedly.

There's no mistaking Andre Iguodala for Kobe Bryant. But the one element that's hard to draft is competitiveness. You can draft athleticism. You can draft basketball IQ. You can draft a pure shooter or a solid defender. You can draft height, length, and speed. But drafting that "it" element is much more difficult. And that "it" element is what transforms initially passive players like the Iguodala who joined this franchise as a 3rd option behind Iverson and Webber into an allstar caliber, franchise players. It's what separates the Kobes from the Tim Thomas' or Larry Hughes' of this league or in this case, the Iguodala's from the Luol Dengs (though to be fair, Deng shows much more heart than those two aforementioned players).

I wasn't high on Iguodala being our go-to player or team leader early on. But truth be told, whether you feel he was handed it unfairly just be default when Iverson left, Iguodala has earned it. The knock on him going into this season was that his jumper was unreliable. Iguodala spent the offseason perfecting it and came back this season with a whole new arsenal. The knock two seasons ago was his handle and ability to finish around the rim. Ditto for those two setbacks. Whether you're a fan of Iguodala or not, there's no denying that he's a hard worker - on both ends of the court. Maybe hanging out with Kobe during the offseason has made the marked impact.

The other thing about a team leader is that teammates feed off their energy. When you have a guy like Iguodala who works his butt off on both ends of the floor, it transcends to the entire supporting cast - much like Iverson used to do when he took his team to the Finals. However, in Iguodala's case, he's a hard worker in games and in practices and he plays with the same intensity on both ends of the court. And the fact that he's so vocal really does set the tone for his teammates - and considering how passive Cheeks is, I think you need that loudmouth on the floor directing players. It would seem to me that Iguodala's outspokenness is the perfect compliment to Cheeks' calm demeanor.

Regardless, I'm glad Iguodala is showing that he possesses the "it" factor. These type of players don't come along every day and I would hope that ownership shows him the money and keeps him here long term.

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Post#2 » by tk76 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:08 pm

The analogy I see is MJ and Drexler (although Dala will never be the star at quite that level.) Drexler was a great player in his own right- and being not as transcendent of a star as MJ should not diminish how great of a player he was. Hopefully Dala continues to incorporate things he learns from Kobe into his game.

Iguodala works out with Kobe. They both are 6'6" swingmen who take pride in both offense and defense. He clearly has tried to pattern parts of his game after Kobe- particularly his pull up jumper as a go to move. It also looks like some of Kobe's passion and ego (belief in himself) has rubbed off.

However, Kobe's skill set is different than Dala, and always will be. Kobe has better body control/finesse and is a more instinctive scorer. Dala is stronger, and more willing to get physical in games. I think Iguodala can become a better post player than Kobe.

Overall, Kobe will go down as a top 5 all-time SG. We can only hope Iguodala will be an all-star level SG/SF, but he won't be on Kobe's level. That is not much of a slight though. Iguodala can still be a fine player, bringing some of Kobe's skill and attitude (hopefully more of the posotives thas spoiled brat part.)
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Post#3 » by SendEm » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:19 pm

I've seen plenty of players over the years play like all star caliber players DURING THEIR CONTRACT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Money is on the line gentlmen. Money...
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Post#4 » by SendEm » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:23 pm

Kobe wanted "it" from day one. Iverson wanted "it" from day one. Iguodala only began trying to obtain "it" once Iverson left and he seen all of the money he could make, being that he was the new face of the team, whether he deserved it or not. I like players that want "it" from DAY 1. I don't like players that can be perceived to be grasping for "it" just to get a pay day.
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Post#5 » by The Guilty Party » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:24 pm

We missed your comments during the Boston game cause Iguodala was "money" at the end of that game.
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Post#6 » by tk76 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:25 pm

Iguodala has been showing himself to be a money player- Iguo-dala-dolla-$-$-$

I gues next year we will see if he continues to play with the same passion after he gets his payday. I say he does, but we sill have to wit and see.

I thing older players starp it on for a few months to get their final big paycheck. I think younger players are more likely to keep their high motor going after they get resigned. You can point to Sam- but he had other issues than effort.
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Post#7 » by SendEm » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Larry Hughes played GREAT for two solid years before he got paid. As soon as he got paid his game went in the toilet. Larry Hughes wasn't an old player.
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Post#8 » by STChaser » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:12 pm

Kobe wanted "it" from day one. Iverson wanted "it" from day one. Iguodala only began trying to obtain "it" once Iverson left and he seen all of the money he could make, being that he was the new face of the team, whether he deserved it or not. I like players that want "it" from DAY 1. I don't like players that can be perceived to be grasping for "it" just to get a pay day.


Sendem, bad example. Primarily because even if Iguodala wanted it from day one, A) He didn't have the skill-set (no pull-up jumper, poor ball handling skills, couldn't finish at the rim, etc.) upon coming into the league, and B) With Iverson and Webber dominating the ball on offense, there was little room for Iguodala to improve his game (and yet he still gave great effort on D since day one - and those were non contract years by the way.

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Post#9 » by SendEm » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:30 pm

STChaser wrote:
Sendem, bad example. Primarily because even if Iguodala wanted it from day one, A) He didn't have the skill-set (no pull-up jumper, poor ball handling skills, couldn't finish at the rim, etc.) upon coming into the league, and B) With Iverson and Webber dominating the ball on offense, there was little room for Iguodala to improve his game (and yet he still gave great effort on D since day one - and those were non contract years by the way.

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What about Larry Hughes. I did mention Larry Hughes right?
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Post#10 » by STChaser » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:34 pm

Since when did Larry Hughes play decent defense? And he's got no where near the drive that Iguodala has. I don't think you can compare the two. Hughes will forever be a journeyman in this league. I very much doubt this becomes Iguodala's fate.

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Post#11 » by tk76 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:45 pm

Larry Hughes has had an up and down career. he has always struggled with shot selection and his jump shot. He had some good seasons, but overall has been a below average starter.

You can always find players who had some good years and then failed to become stars. So what? We get it that you think Iguodala will follow that failed trajectory- but believing he will fail is not the same as proving it.

Iguodala has improved his game every year. He adds new skills and takes on more leadership and responsibility. Until he actually shows signs of being lazy or regressing your low opinion of his career path has no credibility.

Being a hater is not proof that a player will fail. I hated Sheed from the day he entered the league- and will still criticize his shot selection and demeanor- but he still is a great player.
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Post#12 » by SendEm » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:52 pm

STChaser wrote:Since when did Larry Hughes play decent defense? And he's got no where near the drive that Iguodala has. I don't think you can compare the two. Hughes will forever be a journeyman in this league. I very much doubt this becomes Iguodala's fate.

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Larry Hughes was voted to the 2004-05 NBA All-Defensive 1st Team. :roll:
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Post#13 » by dbodner » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:55 pm

Larry Hughes played GREAT for two solid years before he got paid


Which two solid years was that?

The on where he scored 18 ppg on 39% shooting with a 1.5/1 assist to turnover ratio? Or the one where he scored 15.5 ppg on 40% shooting with a 1.28/1 assist to turnover ratio?

If you can find two consecutive years where he shot 44+% with a 1.7+/1 assist to turnover ratio, come back and talk. Otherwise, there's no comparison with Iguodala's 2 years here and any 2 year run Hughes put together.
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Post#14 » by tk76 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:58 pm

Iguodala admits that money has been a motivating factor:
"Everybody here has something to prove," Iguodala said. "Myself, I'm playing for a lot. I've got to come out, and I've got to perform. So I've got to have these guys ready every single night. If we're tanking, and I go into the summer [to negotiate a new contract], what good am I for a team that's tanking games at the end of the season?"


That's fine. Its better to use it to help push the team to wins than to brood about it or let it become a distraction. I don't know how good this team will be next year given their lack of a superstar, but I don't see them suddenly forgetting to give effort just because Lou and Dala have signed contracts.
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Post#15 » by dbodner » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:59 pm

As for Iguodala's leadership (which is what the OP was referring to, not so much an actual skillset), give it time. Players on their rookie contracts typically aren't asked to be a leader of the team. I don't think Iguodala's on-court frustration moments come out of a bad place. It's a learning process.
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Post#16 » by SendEm » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:10 pm

dbodner wrote:
Larry Hughes played GREAT for two solid years before he got paid


Which two solid years was that?

The on where he scored 18 ppg on 39% shooting with a 1.5/1 assist to turnover ratio? Or the one where he scored 15.5 ppg on 40% shooting with a 1.28/1 assist to turnover ratio?

If you can find two consecutive years where he shot 44+% with a 1.7+/1 assist to turnover ratio, come back and talk. Otherwise, there's no comparison with Iguodala's 2 years here and any 2 year run Hughes put together.


What is today "Super Wrong Wednesday" or something. You guys in this thread have been wrong wrong wrong off off off with your facts. In 2003-04 Larry Hughes averaged 18.8 ppg shot .397%fg 1.6 steals in 33 minutes
04-05 22ppg 2.9 steals 6.3 rebounds 4.7 assists and shot .430 from the field.

THAT'S 2 SOLID YEARS MR. MODERATOR. :noway:
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Post#17 » by SendEm » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:13 pm

Iggy "being the team leader" just increases his value. Obviously Andre Miller is the leader out on the court in terms of basketball play. Iggy has had his games though...
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Post#18 » by dbodner » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:19 pm

SendEm wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



What is today "Super Wrong Wednesday" or something. You guys in this thread have been wrong wrong wrong off off off with your facts. In 2003-04 Larry Hughes averaged 18.8 ppg shot .397%fg 1.6 steals in 33 minutes
04-05 22ppg 2.9 steals 6.3 rebounds 4.7 assists and shot .430 from the field.

THAT'S 2 SOLID YEARS MR. MODERATOR. :noway:


That was actually my point. 18.8 ppg on 39.7% shooting with nearly as many turnovers as assists is not a a good year, and he hasn't put together good play for "two solid years".

If you could point out where my facts were wrong, that would be swell. I mentioned the two years that surround his one legitimate good year because one of those two would have to be good to have done it for "two solid years". Neither of them were.
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Post#19 » by Johnny Broad-Street » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:27 pm

Why is Larry Hughes being discussed? He never made a team better in his career. Nice player, but if you flip the two in the current situation, the difference is night and day.

I don't LOVE Iggy, but he's definitely better than Larry Hughes when it comes to impact and effectiveness.
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Post#20 » by barkley34 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:41 pm

Iggy isn't the type of person that would only play hard in a contract year. The kid has busted his butt since he came into the league. He almost never misses a game and his effort is always there.

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