This Is Why Willie Green Will Be Traded

STChaser · Post #1 » by **STChaser** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 12:51 pm

Maurice Cheeks said he has given Rodney Carney "free rein to shoot when he wants to shoot. But I've also said he's got to do those other things; he's got to mix it up inside a little bit, he can't be leaking out [on the fastbreak]; he's got to take passes away, he's got to do some other things. He can't be out there just shooting the ball."

Why such criticism of Carney? Why all the demands from him when his counterpart, Willie Green, is allowed to completely shoot us out of games? My guess is that it's because the franchise is investing more in Carney for the long term - they're more critical of his play because they see him as one of our building blocks - especially now that he's consistently knocking down the 3. On the other hand, I think they're letting Green get off easy because they're showcasing him. I could be wrong but I just can't see any other reason why Carney has so many demands on him while Willie Green is allowed to do whatever he wants out there.

STChaser

dond · Post #2 » by **dond** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 1:33 pm

I agree that Willie Green is struggling with his shooting. However, I do not agree that he is being given free rein out there. He is under the same directive as Carney and he is doing other things ... defending ... rebounding ... and that is why he is starting and Carney is not. And that is why Mo Cheeks is commenting on Carney and not on Willie Green. Willie Green has been doing those "other things" all year and that is how he won the starting job.

Now ... unless Willie Green can solve his periodic "slumps" I am sure he is destined for the bench or being traded .... but not because he is not doing those "other things" ... because that is what happens to a player who is not a consistent performer.

carlos1223 · Post #3 » by **carlos1223** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 2:01 pm

Willie Green should not be in the NBA. I'm hoping that Mo and others eventually see this. He sucks and I hope he is traded soon. I personally think that Green has some dirt on Mo or is blackmailing him somehow. I mean, why else would he be starting Green?

ankle420breaker · Post #4 » by **ankle420breaker** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 2:29 pm

dond wrote:I agree that Willie Green is struggling with his shooting. However, I do not agree that he is being given free rein out there. He is under the same directive as Carney and he is doing other things ... defending ... rebounding ... and that is why he is starting and Carney is not. And that is why Mo Cheeks is commenting on Carney and not on Willie Green. Willie Green has been doing those "other things" all year and that is how he won the starting job.

Now ... unless Willie Green can solve his periodic "slumps" I am sure he is destined for the bench or being traded .... but not because he is not doing those "other things" ... because that is what happens to a player who is not a consistent performer.

You say that Willie is under the same directive as Carney as if you actually know... Loving Mo Cheeks doesn't mean that you know how he directs each player...

What are you talking about with Willie doing "other things?" He is as one dimensional a player as we have on this team. You use rebounding as an example? Really?

Sandalf42 · Post #5 » by **Sandalf42** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 2:33 pm

Willie Green should not be in the NBA. I'm hoping that Mo and others eventually see this. He sucks and I hope he is traded soon. I personally think that Green has some dirt on Mo or is blackmailing him somehow. I mean, why else would he be starting Green?

Maybe he shouldn't be a starter but that's a little extreme. He can play. He's just on a very cold streak right now. Sure he needs to cut down on his shots when he isn't feeling it, but other than that, I have no big criticisms of him.

Grenerd686 · Post #6 » by **Grenerd686** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 3:03 pm

Green is good but he should not be a starter

STChaser · Post #7 » by **STChaser** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 3:32 pm

I'm fine with Green off the bench. But truth be told, if we're going to use him as a bench player, I'd rather have Lou come off the bench before WG and Carney coming off the bench behind Thad.

STChaser

dond · Post #8 » by **dond** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 3:43 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:You say that Willie is under the same directive as Carney as if you actually know... Loving Mo Cheeks doesn't mean that you know how he directs each player...

What are you talking about with Willie doing "other things?" He is as one dimensional a player as we have on this team. You use rebounding as an example? Really?

Well, you are right about me loving Mo Cheeks. And that is because of the way he has brought this team of young players along from disaster to a playoff team. And it is my contention that the players love him also. And that is the reason I believe that Willie Green is playing under the same directive as Carney. A coach who is not consistent in his handling of player expectations is not loved / respected by his players and Mo Cheeks clearly is. Just common sense is all ...

dond · Post #9 » by **dond** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 3:47 pm

STChaser wrote:I'm fine with Green off the bench. But truth be told, if we're going to use him as a bench player, I'd rather have Lou come off the bench before WG and Carney coming off the bench behind Thad.
STChaser

And that may be how things evolve. It all depends upon how each of them performs. If Willie Green finds his shot he can be a dynamite scorer either starting or off the bench. If Carney becomes consistent with his shooting he also can be the source of prolific scoring. Lou Williams the same. I don't think anything has been determined with any of these players yet. If I had my druthers ... I druther Willie Green became lights out shooter ... Why ? Because he is bigger than the other two and can defend bigger players. But ... time will tell.

bball4life · Post #10 » by **bball4life** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 3:55 pm

dond wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

And that may be how things evolve. It all depends upon how each of them performs. If Willie Green finds his shot he can be a dynamite scorer either starting or off the bench. If Carney becomes consistent with his shooting he also can be the source of prolific scoring. Lou Williams the same. I don't think anything has been determined with any of these players yet. If I had my druthers ... I druther Willie Green became lights out shooter ... Why ? Because he is bigger than the other two and can defend bigger players. But ... time will tell.

Willie Green is 6'3, Carney is 6'7. Unless you mean by bigger, fatter...

It's time to give up on Willie. He's horrible. Unfortunately if we are "showcasing" Willie right now, the move is absolutely backfiring. I stand by my many statements that Willie Green is a 12th man on a decent NBA team and no more. On the rare occasion he scores efficiently, he barely earns minutes. On the much more common occasion that he's laying bricks, he's less useful than Calvin Booth.[/b]

STChaser · Post #11 » by **STChaser** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 4:03 pm

Dond,
I agree with you that WG is the best defender of the three and I would rather hold onto him for that reason alone. But in terms of the most dangerous player of the group offensively, I would give it to Lou Williams hands down. That being said, Carney's ability to spread the defense with his perimeter shooting is also much needed and could prove just as instrumental as this team progresses.

STChaser

Louis Williams · Post #12 » by **Louis Williams** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 4:19 pm

http://blogs.phillynews.com/inquirer/de ... n_pis.html

Item: The Willie Green detractors are disappointed that we haven

Post #13 » by **The Guilty Party** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 4:22 pm

Willie Green Must Go Thread #4,532

I'll believe he's gone after he's gone until then... I'm not wasting any more words on why he should go.

Post #14 » by **dbodner** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 4:32 pm

Still, he has overall had a strong impact on the team

Except, you know, there's no statistical proof to back that up.

- His PER differential is -3.7. That's his productivity directly compared to the man he's guarding. (By comparison, Carney is +2.1)
- His Roland Rating is a -3.5.
- The Sixers are -1.6 pp100p when he's on the court. +2.8 when he's off the court. Which, IMO, actually carries weight when you're playing 26 mpg
- His WP48 and Projected Wins Produced are -0.012 and 0.5. That ranks his as 352nd in the league. right behind Ronnie Price of the Jazz. To put that in perspective, Greg Buckner is 345.

I know all of these stats are voodoo magic, but they are all fairly consistent that he's not an integral part to our success.

dond · Post #15 » by **dond** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 5:12 pm

One thing about statistics ... they are available to support just about any position you wish to take. You just have to search for them and only quote the ones that support your position. What you have just proven is that you are willing to take the time to find them. Good Work.

dond · Post #16 » by **dond** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 5:18 pm

STChaser wrote:In terms of the most dangerous player of the group offensively, I would give it to Lou Williams hands down. That being said, Carney's ability to spread the defense with his perimeter shooting is also much needed and could prove just as instrumental as this team progresses.STChaser

All true ... And, hopefully, one or more of them will emerge as a consistent NBA player. Right now, you are right ... Lou Williams looks like he is the most likely to be that player.

Post #17 » by **The Guilty Party** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 6:21 pm

dond wrote:One thing about statistics ... they are available to support just about any position you wish to take. You just have to search for them and only quote the ones that support your position. What you have just proven is that you are willing to take the time to find them. Good Work.

That's a vaild point, dond. If I wanted to say Zach Randolph would be a good fit here... I could point out that he averages 18 and 11. Meanwhile someone else could counter with the stat that he's killed 5 people.

The problem with this case is that you'll be hard pressed to find stats that support Willie Green unless you say that to his credit he's killed 0 people.

dond · Post #18 » by **Sixerscan** » Wed Apr 9, 2008 6:25 pm

Louis Williams wrote:The best thing about playing for Maurice Cheeks is that if a player isn