RealGM

Hi sixer fans, I'm new to these forums (post on some others a lot but there's no sixer following over there) and was wondering how you felt about the value of Miller. I know there's been lots of debate as to his actual value among the sixer fans (not in the least compared to Iggy though). I would love to get Iggy to Portland as I think he'd be an absolutely perfect fit as a defensive specialist and super-utility player, but know this is pretty unrealistic and am waiting to see how his contract negotiations go before thinking anything is feasible. However, Miller also seems in a murky situation where he would like to get back out west, and is aging to the point where he is out of the sixers contention window most likely (unless they get Brand).

I think that Portland could really use a steady vet to push our competitiveness, feed the post, and help with our transition offense (dead last in the league). Portland is also overcrowded with developing players (some who may help Philly quite a bit). After seeing how much he helped Philly this year (and his uncertain future with an expiring deal) I would really like to pursue him in trade talks. Anyways, we have too many developing pieces right now, a lottery pick we don't need, and a couple too many PG's at this point.

Kevin Love seems like he would fit your system perfectly in an up-tempo style that compliments Dalembert with his rebounding, outlet passes and tough post play on offense. If we could trade up (we have #13 now) to get K-Love and then package him, Raef's expiring deal, and Steve Blake (who has a team option after this year and is a steady PG) would you guys consider that as a package for Miller?

I know a lot of this depends on how you view the team right now in competition, how Miller actually feels about staying, and how much you guys like Love, but I just wanted to gauge interest. You'd also need to throw in a salary filler to make it work, and maybe Portland could bail out a contract like Willie Green.

this is how I would see it:
Blake (4 mill), Raef (12 mill), Love
for
Miller, Green

and how it leaves us:
(assuming we use Jack to trade up)

Miller/Sergio Rodriguez
Roy/Rudy Fernandez
Webster/Outlaw/James Jones
Aldridge/Frye/Mcroberts
Oden/Pryzbilla

much more balanced than now, and you guys get a legit post prospect, what do you think?

On another note, what (if contract negotiations go bad) would it take to get Iggy? Any chance of a S&T for Blake, Outlaw (very good in isolation), this years pick (Love), and a future pick?

I'd rather base a trade around AI2 and Aldridge.

Terrible trade for us. Miller is expiring as well. I would think a trade or Sergio, Raef and your first round pick.

If looking at aquiring AI and Miller, I think LA would be fair value.

^^^^ Most Definitely

Rodriguez would have to come to Philly, if we're dealing Miller.

Aldridge would be expected in an Iguodala deal.

Rodriguez, really? He doesn't have good value right now and you guys have Lou' as a small guy you're developing. I think we'd try to keep him with Rudy coming over too. He's one of my faves but many on the forums are ready to ship him out, I think Nate uses him incorrectly and puts him in a position to fail much of the time personally.

However, you may not be ready to ship out Miler and that's understandable. But as far as a trade for Iggy:

concerning Aldridge:
1. you never trade big for small.
2. Aldridge is two years younger than Iggy
3. Aldridge puts up as good of stats as Iggy right now
4. Aldridge compliments Oden perfectly
5. you never trade big for small

who trades 23 year old post stars? C'mon guys, you won't get a player like Aldridge for Iggy from any team in the league.

I just think a package based on Outlaw (who is a very good iso player) and Love with a future pick thrown in is as good as you're gonna get, but who knows I guess.

If thats as good as we are gonna get, then why trade him? It is not like we need to get rid of AI. Outlaw might have shown promise this year, but this was the first year he did. Also, we have a better version of him in Thaddeus Young. A future pick is meaningless because Portland will be good in the near future.

But being that you dont trade Big for Small, then what about Brandon Roy? We need a SG.

I wouldn't trade Aldridge for AI2 straight up either.

But adding Miller and/or picks on the PHI side and something else on the PORT side was more where I was heading.

Portland s the perfect place for Miller. IMO Blake would have to be included to give Philly a veteran PG. Blake, the #13 pick & filler should just about do it. No La Frentz though.

corwin wrote:Portland s the perfect place for Miller. IMO Blake would have to be included to give Philly a veteran PG. Blake, the #13 pick & filler should just about do it. No La Frentz though.

Lafrentz is expiring and that's the only reason I mentioned it, I think Blake would be a good place for Philly, but I'm not sure what else to add, as Portland is attached to many of its "project players" and don't have any real bad contracts other than Raef (who's expiring). How could we work out Blake + pick + filler for Miller? Maybe if it were a three way with Portland sending out Raef, Blake, Jack, and the pick and taking back some filler (hopefully expiring) and Miller, while Philly got Blake, the pick, and filler from the other team.

something like this
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=4589029

It just seems like you guys could use the pick and youth much more than us.

SouthJersey wrote:But being that you dont trade Big for Small, then what about Brandon Roy? We need a SG.

you build your focus with stars, and fill in the complimentary pieces. We have our stars in Roy, Aldridge, and Oden (hopefully), and maybe even our Ginobli in Rudy, we need to round out our utility guys now. There's no way we trade any of those four right now. Basically I was trying to see if we could benefit from another teams contractual issues with Iggy, while providing them some youth with potential (we have too much) and consolidating our roster.

I wouldn't trade Aldridge either. I think Miller would actually take away from Roy's production.

I think there is something to pairing Philly and Portland with Miller being the main piece...here is my version, ideally with the Sixers giving up a future #1 and the Blazers giving up this year's #1. Adding Evans gives them a backup PF to replace Frye, and the Sixers get Koponen back as a PG for the future. The others are more or less filler.

http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/4/

OK...finishing my delusional episode. Moving Miller obviously creates a void at PG which Koponen isn't ready to fill. Use your FA $ to try to get Calderon (yes he's flawed, but his +/- probably are equal/greater than Millers and he's about 5-6 years younger).

Draft Speights and Lopez (or the best two big men available) with 13/16. You move Miller, but still have an experienced PG. Offensively, this is a better half court team, and still very athletic to get out and run.

PG- Calderon/Lou/Koponen
SG- Iguodala/Carney
SF- Thad/Webster
PF- Frye/Smith/Speights
C- Sam/Raef/Lopez/Boothe

From Portland's perspective, they get a big upgrade at PG and a very nice, high energy PF off the bench. WG is a quality bench player as well. They have a ton of talent already, and these are very good character/glue players that will give them quality play in their roles.

I wouldn't trade Alrdridge for Iggy either but bottomline is Iggy has the most value on our team. Just because he played poorly against Detroit, his value to our team does not change. It simply means he isn't READY to be the number 1 option...and it's possible that he won't develop into one.

However, for the Blazers to get Iguodala, they're going to have to give up something. And I'd have to believe that the Sixers would only be willing to make that trade for Aldridge.

Aldridge, Roy, and Frye are the only thing worthwhile on Portland. Forget about a Blake, Webster, Outlaw, or 13th pick. We don't have anything on the Sixers valuable enough to get Aldridge or Roy so Frye is the target. Miller and Iggy are worth more than Frye but maybe not to Portland who has a chance of developing a championship caliber 4 man rotation in the frontcourt...

Iggy and ROy would be disastrous for Portland. Iggy needs to play with the ball in his hands to be anything other than the average player that he was when Iverson was here. Brandon Roy handles the ball for that team with Steve Blake being the spot up shooter. Roy and Iggy would never work. Roy and Kevin Martin would work because KM can play off of the ball for the rest of his life and still average 23ppg. Now if they plan to start ROy at PG and Iggy at SG and get rid of the small PG altogether then that is different. But Roy can't guard the Chris Paul's and Nash's of the world for the rest of his career 30+ minutes per game...

Andre Miller is who they would want. Andre Miller for Frye and filler? I'd do it. Miller is not resigning here for anything less than HUGE dollars.

SendEm wrote:Iggy and ROy would be disastrous for Portland. Iggy needs to play with the ball in his hands to be anything other than the average player that he was when Iverson was here...Now if they plan to start ROy at PG and Iggy at SG and get rid of the small PG altogether then that is different. But Roy can't guard the Chris Paul's and Nash's of the world for the rest of his career 30+ minutes per game...

Andre Miller is who they would want. Andre Miller for Frye and filler? I'd do it. Miller is not resigning here for anything less than HUGE dollars.

I'm not sure we'd be willing to send out a young big like Frye for Miller. The fact is we're gonna have to deal one of Outlaw, Webster, and Frye in order to develop the other two better, however Frye and Webster seem to be better passive and complimentary pieces than Outlaw (who has star potential). Outlaw probably has the best value too of the three, and he hit multiple game winners this year. However, Miller would be more of a short term fix just to jump-start our competitiveness before we move Roy to PG full time and he makes that adjustment.

If Roy were to move to PG full time, playing next to Iggy would be fantastic. Iggy's a decent ballhandler next to him, can play off the ball well, and is a great player on the defensive end. With Roy handling the rock, Iggy could go back to finding his pride in being a defensive stopper and utility player who kills it in the transition game. That "average player" (who filled up the stat sheet) would be perfect in Portland, and I think Iggy would guard Paul, Williams, and Parker as well as any PG we could grab if he wasn't asked to create on offense too.

While we would totally trade Frye in order to get a building block such as Iggy (who he is best friends with), I don't see us trading him for a short term vet (who isn't that big of an upgrade over Blake).

^ Don't mind Ricky, he's just a hater. I agree, Roy and Iguodala would work incredibly well. Wouldn't trade for Miller either. With Roy and Iguodala on the floor together, ideally, you'd want someone who could spread the floor. The number of years left that Miller has is questionable too, I wouldn't gamble away guys that might play great for you in the future. Blazers have way too much going for them right now.

chrice wrote: I agree, Roy and Iguodala would work incredibly well. Wouldn't trade for Miller either.

Well thanks, I honestly think we'd be in championship contention really soon with a core of Roy/Iguodala/Webster/Aldridge/Oden with Rudy as 6th man.

chrice wrote:With Roy and Iguodala on the floor together, ideally, you'd want someone who could spread the floor. The number of years left that Miller has is questionable too, I wouldn't gamble away guys that might play great for you in the future. Blazers have way too much going for them right now.

I wasn't throwing out hypotheticals to get both Andre's, I know there's no chance in hell that happens. I would love to get Iguodala and move Roy to PG, however, I was shooting for something more realistic and I think that Andre Miller makes a ton of sense as far as keeping us flexible for the future (exp), instilling a competitive spirit immediately, and helping us get some easy transition buckets. With Roy and Iggy on the floor together, obviously you'd want good off the ball shooters/scorers, which Webster and Rudy Fernandez fit the bill perfectly. The reason we'd be willing to give up youth to grab Andre Miller is that we simply have too much with adding Rudy and Oden next year, and need to clear some space to develop guys properly. Aging vets would make the most sense to add as our core is in place and now we just need some experience to make us competitive now and instill a winning attitude (as Miller did for you guys this year).

if you must know my evil plan to get Miller and in the process leverage for Iggy...here goes. (keep in mind this is just fantasy, not realistic)


Portland trades: Lafrentz, Blake, Jack, #13 pick
Portland receives: Andre Miller, Eric Snow (who is cut)

Cleveland trades: Eric Snow, Joe Smith (both expiring)
Cleveland receives: Raef Lafrentz, Jarret Jack

Philadelphia trades: Andre Miller
Philadelphia receives: Blake, Joe Smith, #13 pick

(in the process pissing off Iguodala, (who may then take QO, probably not), by adding more youth and less experience to their roster)

we start off the year with:
Miller/Sergio/Snow
Roy/Fernandez
Webster/Outlaw/Jones
Aldridge/Frye/Mcroberts
Oden/Pryzbilla

Iggy is struggling being the man, contract situation looms overhead, Philly is doing terrible

then we buy low/sell high

Outlaw, Snow, future first for struggling (and possibly overpaid) unhappy Iguodala (don't have Snow if Iggy takes QO), or we grab him in the offseason when we have loads of cap room.

10/11 rotation
Roy/Sergio
Iguodala/Fernandez
Webster/(Roy/Iggy)
Aldridge/Frye
Oden/Pryzbilla

I know it's involved/unrealistic/predictable, but it looks good on paper right?

you guys would lose a lot of games next year, but get more solid players (and in the post), have a lot of roster flexibility and cap room, and add a player with promise in Outlaw, get a chance to evaluate Thad and Lou, and get a very high pick in the draft...(so I know it doesn't look so good for you guys...but it's my fantasy)

Well it's definitely a plan..but I still think you guys can manage to win without Miller. You have guys like Roy and Oden that are much more mature than their age, and can lead the team. One questions though, isn't La Frenz an expiring contract next season? I think Miller is set to expire at the same time, but wants a big extension as well, so I don't know how viable it will be to trade for him for cap relief. There are some real gems at #12-15 in the draft too. You could go after a guy like Westbrook who can really kill other teams with speed and play off of Roy. Or get a guy like Mcgee for Oden insurance.

Too many lopsided fan oriented homer trades where Portland wins. One thing that's guaranteed is that Andre Miller will cost no less than Frye. Outlaw, Webster, the 13th pick, Jack, and Blake have NO VALUE IN THE NBA FOR A PLAYER LIKE ANDRE MILLER. Anyone that knows anything about the Rudy F. "situation" would not suggest him getting traded before the season...Kevin Durant has more of a chance of being traded before the season than Rudy F...

My trade link didn't work before...

Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -15.6 ppg, -3.5 rpg, and -7.6 apg.

Incoming Players
Raef LaFrentz 6-11 PF / C from Kansas
1.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 7.6 minutes
Martell Webster 6-7 SG from Seattle Prep (HS)
10.7 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.2 apg in 28.4 minutes
Channing Frye 6-11 C from Arizona
6.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.3 minutes
Petteri Koponen 0-0 from
No games yet played in 2007/08
2008 #1 (13)

Outgoing Players
Andre Miller 6-2 PG from Utah
17.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 6.9 apg in 36.8 minutes
Reggie Evans 6-8 PF from Iowa
5.3 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 23.2 minutes
Willie Green 6-2 SG from Detroit Mercy
12.4 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.0 apg in 26.6 minutes
Future #1

Use your FA $ to try to get Calderon. Draft Speights and Lopez.

PG- Calderon/Lou/Koponen
SG- Iguodala/Carney
SF- Thad/Webster
PF- Frye/Smith/Speights
C- Sam/Raef/Lopez/Boothe