How important are blocked shots in a PF?

[corwin]

Just saw the final NBA statistics for the regular season. Seems some of the power forwards that people are advocating we sign are pretty weak in the shot blocking department. Here goes.

Chris Wilcox had 36 blocks over 28.0 minutes for a BPG average of .58. Not good since he's 6'10.

Zbo had 16 blocks over 32.5 minutes for a BPG average of .23. Need I say any more. Oh I forgot, he's playing next to the shot-blocking machine
known as Eddie Curry.

Charlie V had 35 blocks over 24.1 minutes for a BPG average of .46.

Now compare those players with the league runner-up who is also a PF.

Josh Smith had 227 blocks over 35.5 minutes for a BPG of 2.86.

As a basis of comparison I'll include two of our guys.

Calvin Booth had 18 blocks over 6.6 minutes for a BPG of .58. Shows he's at least trying.

Josh Smith (he of the short arms) had 50 blocks over 14.6 minutes for a BPG of .66. This is more than Wilcox. I would interpret this to mean that Smith hustles and Wilcox coasts.

Now I know there will be all kinds of arguments & reasons why these guys have these numbers & I intentionally did not include Young or Evans because they don't look so good. I do see BPG as one indicator of defensive effort & I am pretty surprised that CV, Wilcox, & Zbo suck as bad as they do. One more piece of evidence that those 3 players are not the answer.

[SendEm]

You are right on the money.

Blocked shots in PF's are not as important as C's, IF, you have a C that can block shots. Position defense and help defense are more important in a PF. CV, Wilcox, & Zbo are all deficient in block shots, position defense, AND help defense.

[Mik317]

CV and Zach I knew sucked but I thought that Wilcox was supposed to be a SHOTBLOKKA.........wow dats weak.

[The Sixer Fixer]

You are right on the money.

CV, Wilcox, & Zbo are all deficient in block shots, position defense, AND help defense.

Personally, I think blocks are very important in a PF. Not so much for the block itself, but the idea that opposing players know there's a guy who CAN contest shots if they drive the paint. Right now we have 1 guy who can block shots and when he goes to the bench teams drive on us at will. Having at least 1 guy on the court who can block is a must. Having a 2nd guy who is a block threat just neutralizes opposing offense even more.

I will say this though...just because a guy can block a shot does not also mean he is a good defender. Josh Smith gets a large chunk of his blocks in transition and on help D. He's not an elite man to man defender IMO (not yet at least). If I have to pick between the good man to man defender or a guy who's just a shot blocker, I'm taking the man to man guy.

[Skates]

It depends on how you get the blocked shots. Is it a guy like Duncan who can guard his own man straight up and still get over to provide weakside help? Is it a guy like Josh Smith who is so focused on shot blocking that he fails to play adequate defense on his own man? If you look at most of the scouting evaluations from last year (pre-season) the scouts did not give Josh Smith good grades at all on D saying he basically hangs around the basket looking for the highlight reel blocks.

Blocked shots is a pretty over rated statistic as far as good defense goes. To be truthful I love shotblockers like Theo Ratliff back in the day, but Theo himself was a poor man to man defender. If my PF can play straight-up and team D at a high level without being a shotblocker I would be happy as heck, especially if I have a shotblocking C like Sammy.

As for guys like Wilcox, etc I don't think their shot block numbers tell you anything about their D other than how often they block a shot. Some guys who are very good defensive players just don't have the knack for blocking shots. There is a real art and almost a sixth sense to it. Guys like Wilcox and Zach Randolph are pretty much earthbound and lack long arms, ups or recovery quickness. Jason Smith may have short arms, but he has good quickness, jumps well and has that instinctive knack to meet the ball where it is being released.

[corwin]

I realize that BPG are not the only factor in good defense. I admit I haven't watched Wilcox much but I have seen CV & Zbo plenty enough to know that they stink on defense. But all 3 of those guys played on teams that were so terrible defensively that they can't get a free ride. All of them were on the floor significant minutes.

[BadWolf]

Josh Smith also had one of best defensive on/off court numbers, IIRC. Maybe he's not a great man to man defender but his help defense covers up for that.

[BadWolf]

He was 2nd in league last year in that category, just behind Chuck Hayes.

http://www.82games.com/ONSORT5.HTM

Young has some impressive numbers, that I wasn't really aware off. He's 7th in net on/off production. Nice.

http://www.82games.com/ONSORT6.HTM

[corwin]

Josh Smith also had one of best defensive on/off court numbers, IIRC. Maybe he's not a great man to man defender but his help defense covers up for that.

I like Smith but they love him in Atlanta. He won't be available.

[Too Late Crew]

He was 2nd in league last year in that category, just behind Chuck Hayes.

http://www.82games.com/ONSORT5.HTM

Excellent point. I think it parallels my theory. Blocked shots only show how good a shot blocker you are they are essentially unrelated to how good a "defender" you are. Chuck Hayes is the case in point. He blocks 1 shot every 40 minutes. He's a below average shotblocker yet has top defensive numbers. Josh Smith blocks 3 times as many shots and has similar 82 games defensive numbers.

You can be a good shotblocker/bad cdfender, good shotblocker/good defender. poor shotblocker/poor defender or poor shotblocker/poor defender. Doesn't matter.

As for how important blocked shots are from your PF as long as you have shotblocking coming from your Center which the Sixers do its not very important at all. You don't want TWO guys going for blocks. One guy goes for blocks the other needs to get the rebound. There have been notably good PF defenders that block very few shots. Oakley or Malone come to mind.

As for Zbo or Charlie V they are poor defenders because they suck at defense. Even if they doubled or tripled their blocks they'd still be sieves.

[PhillyRocks1]

Unless you are dennis rodman. Who did it all.

[tk76]

It is key to have some intimadating long players in your frontcourt- unfortunately shotblocking is not a perfect measure of this.

Think of the problems the Sixers (and other teams) had gooing against Detroit when they had both Wallaces. AI couldn't get all of the way to the cup and finish, and the team started settling for jumpers. Forcing a team to settle for jumpers should be the foundation of a good defense.

Think of how much more teams attack the rim when Sam goes to the bench. If you don't have guys to protect the rim in the frontcourt then your defense will always be vulnerable to penatration.

Shotblocking is not the best or only measure of guarding to rim. Teams like the bad boy Pistons shut down the paint with physical bigs like Lambier, Mahorn and Rodman without getting that many blocks. However, most intimadating post defenders get at least 1 block per game.

[philbe311]

Shot blocking is a very overrated stat... While measurable, the more subjective question of "good defense" is much more important to me... You can be a good defender and a poor shot blocker, or a good shot blocker and poor defender...

[tk76]

Shot blocking is a very overrated stat... While measurable, the more subjective question of "good defense" is much more important to me... You can be a good defender and a poor shot blocker, or a good shot blocker and poor defender...

Yes, more shot blocks does not equate to better defense- but no shot blocks (or 0.7 or less) in a big ussually means they do not effectively protect the lane from penatration. Taking charges and good footwork only gets you so far, you have to make a guard at least think twice before going to the rim.

[Skates]

Shotblocking is not the best or only measure of guarding to rim. Teams like the bad boy Pistons shut down the paint with physical bigs like Lambier, Mahorn and Rodman without getting that many blocks. However, most intimadating post defenders get at least 1 block per game.

I thought of the bad boys as well and they could certainly intimidate you into staying out of the lane, but they also had John Salley coming off the bench with Rodman and Salley certainly blocked a few shots in his day.

[tk76]

Salley was a great shot blocker for the 20 mpg he was on the floor. Rodman was never much of a shot blocker. he averaged 0.9BPG in 89, but overall only averaged 0.5/game for his career, and most years was at 0.7 or less.

The Bad Boys were effective without shotblockers, but then again they mugged people.

[Too Late Crew]

With today's handcheck rules its more important for your bags to effectively hedge and defend on pick and rolls and switches than to knock people down or even block sots at the rim.

One must remember that if a shot is blocked it means that a shot was taken and with a big man in all likleyhood the shot was taken inside the paint. The best defense of all results in the ball being turned over and retained by the defense with no shot. A shot block is the last line of defense after all else has failed. While its certainly positive to block a shot or alter shots leading to lower % when you think about how many shots a guy blocks (what 2 or 3) in relation to how many shots are taken I'd much rather have a guy who rotates properly to prevent shots ever being taken in the paint than a shot blocker. With a 3 second defensive rule its also harder to just stand tll in the middle like Mutombo used to do.

[tk76]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that shotblocks are not the only or even best measure of defense.

The bigger issue (when you look at a team like the Knicks or Sonics) is having no threat of a shotblocker opens yourself up to drives. It doesn't mean teams automatically can get layups, but teams will attack the lane more if they know it will be an uncontested finish.

When there are good defenders- who can alter and block shots in the lane- the other team is more likely to settle for jumpers, and you have already won half the battle on defense.

[bigdavid]

I believe that either the threat of a good shot blocker is almost as good.,Sammy is a good shot blocker but as we all can remember when Webber was here the opposing team would bring there big away from the basket and they would drive easily past the (can't defend Webber) for easy layups when Sammy went out to guard there bigs.

At least with Evans we have the threat of a shot blocker puting less preesure on Sammy to constantly rotate back to cover which is one reason he had so many fouls called.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Depends on how you wanna bulid your team. If it were me, a 2nd shotblocker next to Sammy is great. Imagine having a guy be able to rotate and be an inside presence. If you think Sammy enjoyed Evans's presense, just wait. That's why I hope Jason Smith has a breakout year. I think he has the potential to be a 1.0 BPG player in the NBA. He already is terrific at rotation and anticipation. If he gets the demeanor. Then on the defensive side of the ball. He can be a pretty good shotblocker here.

Offensively, Smith has some stuff. A nice Jumpshot and a desire to improve his handles. Dirk wasn't an all-star from day 1. And I'm not saying Smith's the next Dirk. But the potential is there to be a 10 PPG player. IMO, Smith has a shot at developing into a starter.