If Interviews Are Worth Anything

[SendEm]

Donte Greene standing reach 9'0" vertical leap 31.5"
Thad Young 8'10 37"
Julian Wright 9'0" 33.5"
Al Horford 8'11 35.5
Brandan Wright 9'0" 35.5
Joakim Noah 8'10" 37.7
Jason Smith 8'10" 37.5
Rudy Gay 8'11' 40.5
LaMarcus Aldridge 9'2" 34
Jason Maxiell 8'11
Ike Diogu 9'1" 31
Martell Webster 8'10" 30.5
Hakim Warrick 9'0" 38

Greene has too many negatives. He's light. Not physical. A bad outside shooter. A bad finisher. No vertical leap. His Standing reach and weight are comparable to Rudy Gay and Thad, but his vertical leap is well below the two of those players meaning that Thad and Gay have the ability to play taller than this guy. Greene basically has the same standing reach and vertical leap as Ike Diogu but without the brute strength. Drafting this guy with the "potential" to be a PF is even more risky than drafting Thad under that same label last year. Thad did okay at the PF position, but he had natural PF skills to begin with while Greene is clearly a perimeter player.I don't understand the Rashard Lewis love. Orlando got exposed for playing a SF at the PF position which was a great gimmick for regular season basketball but a joke in the playoffs.

[SendEm]

Also Greene has far more of a chance of developing into the next Brian Cook than Rashard Lewis. Greene struggled in college.

[Mik317]

I don't call 18 pts as a frosh in the Big East struggling. He's a freshman he'll get better. Also like Thad, the entire point of going to college for him was to work on his game, partically his jumpshot. Thad did the same thing at GT and yet probally only took 20 3's the entire year. Greene at 16 isn't a reach or anything, if <insert Big man of choice> is gone then hell why not.

[STChaser]

I'll take your word that his vertical leap is what you say, but that measurement just don't sound right. I've watched plenty of youtube clips on Greene and he's dunking the ball with ease. Am I missing something here? Can such a great athlete really have a vertical leap that low?

STChaser

[SendEm]

I'll take your word that his vertical leap is what you say, but that measurement just don't sound right. I've watched plenty of youtube clips on Greene and he's dunking the ball with ease. Am I missing something here? Can such a great athlete really have a vertical leap that low?

STChaser

Dunking a basketball is really an overrated feat. I have seen 5'9" guys catch two hand reverse alley oop dunks in semi traffic during the course of a game. Normally 6'4" guys are dominant centers in semi pro leagues. Donte Greene has a 9'0" standing reach which means that the NBA rim is only 12 inches away from his outstretched finger tips. So Donte Greene can get 19 inches above the rim when dunking a basketball. This is not very impressive at all for a NBA player who people want to play PF. But this would explain why he preferred to shoot 3's in college. To "bulk up" as suggested would most likely only further diminish his vertical leap and ability to play tall.

[Carmelo Anthony]

A 31 inch vertical doesn't throw me off one bit. when you factor it in with his standing reach that puts him at 11 feet 7 inches at his higest point, that's more than enough to rip down boards.

Another factor that people havn't really mentioned.. His speed, consitently he was the first man down the court for the cuse. And thats with one of the quickest players in college Johny Flynn on the team.

As for his performance in college. Yes it was very disapointing but like I've said many times. When he came here the intention was for him to be the 2nd option. With Devendorf and Rautins to stretch the D out Greene could have stayed down low and do his thing. But he was forced to be the first option and go to guy which wasn't the plan at all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaRcWKib0k8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwWbx2f3Jm0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn4TGTx8YM4

And just for **** and giggles. My boy Paul Harris

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epjfgoQi ... re=related

AND! Donovan McNabb throwin it down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58DRJgKo ... re=related


I'm gonna put up a few of the tapes I have from practices this year later when I have time.

[tk76]

Sendem, those are some interesting numbers, but I agree that once a guy can get above 11'6" then positioning and attacking the ball on the boards are more important than how high you jump. People don't rebound the ball at 12', they get the ball on the way down.

If you can't get much above the rim them bigger players will just jump over you to get the ball, but I don't think that is an issue for just about anyone on your list.
Now whether or not Greene will box out the ball and fight for the board (or whether he has enough strength to hold his ground) is another issue entirely.

Back to the original premise- to what degree can you compensate for an undersized PF by having good defenders and rebounders at 2/3? Iguodala and Young should combine for 12+ RPG from the SG/SF position.

[SendEm]

I want to make this short and sweet. What have been the front lines of all NBA finals teams for the last 20 years? I guarantee that none of those teams have a PF or Center with less overall standing reach, vertical, strength, and low post ability than Donte Greene. Donte Green is no more of a PF than Walt "The Wizard" Williams. Sure the NBA has a trend of SF playing PF but that isn't ideal, that's out of desperation. Phoenix tried it and scraped it trading Marion to Miami. Rashard Lewis wasn't suppose to start at PF, Tony Battie just happened to get injured. The Lakers and Celtics are in the Finals none of those PF and C's had less measurables than Donte Greene at age 19. Sure you can put a SF at PF, you just won't win a CHIP. Too much time is being spent trying to figure out the best way to lose. If it's not drafting a SF to play PF it's signing JR Smith, trading for Z-Bo or some other move that's clearly not championship caliber. PF's are suppose to at the basis defend the rim and box out and get the rebound. Greene sucks at both. It's best to draft the "conventional" player in the draft that has a position or at least can hide at a position and not be exposed.

We need to be talking about if Donte Greene's handle is good enough. We need to be talking about if his post up game is good enough to post up other SF. We need to be talking about if he is a good passer. Talk of him stretching the floor at the PF position while completely overlooking how atrocious he will be defensively on the boards is just approaching NBA basketball as if it were a video game. Maybe when the day comes that all of the dominant PF's stop existing a talented SF at PF will be good enough to win a championship. But I bet that some smart coach would just put two C's on the floor with 3 guards and win it all...

[Carmelo Anthony]

d
We need to be talking about if Donte Greene's handle is good enough. We need to be talking about if his post up game is good enough to post up other SF. We need to be talking about if he is a good passer. Talk of him stretching the floor at the PF position while completely overlooking how atrocious he will be defensively on the boards is just approaching NBA basketball as if it were a video game. Maybe when the day comes that all of the dominant PF's stop existing a talented SF at PF will be good enough to win a championship. But I bet that some smart coach would just put two C's on the floor with 3 guards and win it all...

I agree with everything you said except for one thing. Donte is actually a very good rebounder on the defensive end, it's on offense where he slacks. Mostly because he floared around the 3 point line.

[STChaser]

Sendem, who would you take at 16 to play the 4 then? I'm not talking trades or FA either. If you had to take four players in this year's draft to play the 4, who would they be, and in what order? (Make sure you're realistic here and pick players who would most likely be there at 16, not a Michael Beasley, etc.).

Here are a few guys who should be around at 16:

Speights: the most natural fit based on size, 6'10, and weight, 250 lbs.
Serge Ibaka: a real gamble - sounds a lot like a smaller version of Dalembert
JJ Hickson: the natural second after Speights in terms of playing back-to-the-basket, weight, size, etc.
Jason Thompson: a tweener between PF and C. Raw but talented
Donte Greene: a SF/PF tweener who could it in well in our up-tempo game - and may just have the highest ceiling.
Darrell Author: rated highly but he's also on the light side at only 215. Even Greene has him by 15 lbs

If I had to play it safe, I'd take Speights, Greene, and then Author. If I were drafting based on ceiling only, I'd take Greene, Speights, and Ibaka.

[SendEm]

OMG I made a long post that got erased by the "you need to log in to post" glitch this messageboard has now.

I made many points but I'll just simply list them instead of rewrite that whole post.

1. the Sixers do not have the luxury of drafting a specific position.
2.the Sixers must take the best pro prospect left in the draft at any position.
3.The goal is to draft an asset that will one day develop into a player that could be traded for an asset that fills a particular position of need.
4.Donte Greene plays the least valuable position on the court in the scoring SF and even "hybrid" AKA "tweener" SF/PF position further down the line in his career.
5. SF should be able to guard 3 positions pg/sg/sf or sg/sf/pf. In Larry Brown's system he looked for a SF that could guard 4 positions. Donte Greene doesn't look like a defender at all which means that you have to be one HELL of an offensive SF to start for a CHIP team, do some history on this one fellas.
6.This draft looks like a terrible draft filled with 20+yr old players that have never dominated their competition.
7. The unsexy pick could be the best pick for the Sixers like Roy Hibbert. Centers are no less important in the NBA and if he proves that he can just simply hold his own then his trade value sky rockets. Oh yeah, he plays with his back to the basket.

[freshie2]

A short and soft PF is similar to the undersized SG...may look nice with some stats and during the regular season, but can't be a main piece around which the championship team is built. If they feel Greene is the most talented player available @ 16, then I guess he could be the choice, but I agree with SendEm that a center @ 16 may be a wiser choice. Hibbert immediately is a huge upgrade over Boothe and appears to be a very safe pick. Koufos, Lopez, McGee, and even Ajinca have a higher potential ceiling, but will need a few years to really mature both on the court and physically. Greene may have the higher ceiling of any player mentioned, but he also has the biggest transformation to make if he's going to be a PF.

When you are talking about the future success of this team, they do need to strengthen their front line as much as any other moves. Since the Pistons series, I've said they need to add 2 bigs in the off season, and still would target Biedrens to play PF, and draft the best big man available @ 16.

[tk76]

It is quite possible that Hibbert will have the most productive career, or at least garner the biggest 2nd contract of the bigs listed. Even a very limited legit center like Diop can get a good contract based on his size.

Hibbert seems somewhat skilled and dedicated to his craft, so I don't doubt he will have some success as a back-up NBA center- if only because there are so few legit centers in the league.

However, Hibbert will never be more than a decent back-up. He will be limited by his feet of stone from ever being a great rebounder or defender. Like Mark Jackson (the one from Temple who always swears) he will be at his peak within a year of entering the league and never get better.

I would not take Hibbert unless I thought the other bigs would all fail. I would still take my chances with someone with more upside, and figure worst case the team can go out and overpay for a back-up center of Hibberts level.

[STChaser]

I don't agree with you Sendem about the Sixers not having the luxury to draft a particular position. Sure we do. This draft is full of PF's who could turn out to be impact players. Look, we all know that PF is our biggest weakness. Yes, a true backup 5 is probably our second. But the first hole is at PF. Look at our roster:

PG: Miller, Lou Williams - as far as I'm concerned, we're fine here.
SG: Iguodala, Carney, Williams - we should be ok
SF: Thaddeus, Iguodala, Carney - probably our strongest position
PF: Evans (one dimensional), Jason Smith (really a 5), Herb Hill (has shown me nothing yet)
C: Sam, Smith, Booth - easily our second weakest position - especially w/ Sam unable to guard wider 5's.

I could see your point if we were looking at perhaps one or to two PF's being available at 16. But we're talking about a plethora of guys who could be there; Speights, Hickson, Greene, Thompson, Author, Ibaka, etc.

My compromise; since I do agree with you that we need a 4 and a 5 (in that order based on "need"), what if we drafted a tweener? Speights is 250 lbs and 6'10. There is no reason he shouldn't be able to hold down the fort with that kind of size - and he has a back to the basket game - something Sammy lacks. How would you feel if we drafted Speights to play PF primarily, but to also play spot minutes at the 5? The other option would be to draft Speights or Greene and try to acquire another pick and select Hibbert, who will probably be a late 1st rounder from what I can tell.

STChaser

[SendEm]

STChaser I think that you are a bit optimistic about this years draft. I also have a feeling that you are ALWAYS optimistic about NBA drafts like many people. Hickson? The NBA chews that sort of player up and spits him out. You look to get that sort of player in the second round NOT at #16. Also Speights is not a back to the basket player like Hibbert. Speights is expected to go before #16, but I am not impressed by his game he's a player that flew up the internet draft boards not because of what he was doing on the court. Plus Bynum and D. Howard are getting no shorter or less strong. A 7'2" player like Hibbert with a high basketball IQ is being undervalued by people who drool over athletic ability and "potential." OJ Mayo has "potential," Speights has negligible "potential," Hibbert is a NBA body with a pro brain, soft hands, and court vision. Meaning that Hibbert will always catch the easy pass for the simple dunk and Hibbert also can easily get the ball back into the hands of the skill players and POTENTIALLY do so in a manner that will result in an assist. People look at Hibbert and forget that front court players like Bill Cartwright once existed in the NBA...

[STChaser]

STChaser I think that you are a bit optimistic about this years draft. I also have a feeling that you are ALWAYS optimistic about NBA drafts like many people

.

Of course I'm optimistic Sendem. Just look at DiLeo's track record; Iguodala, Carney, Lou Williams, Korver, Thaddeus. He's got an knack for finding talent regardless of where are pick is. I see no reason to start doubting him now.

As for Hibbert, it's not that I wouldn't want a player of his size on our roster. I'm just not sure our #1 need right now is a 5. Now IF we acquired Josh Smith, Emeke Okafor, or Elton Brand via free agency, then I'd be all for taking Hibbert. But right now, I still think our primary need is a PF.

STChaser

[The Sixer Fixer]

Hibbert does not get the attention as other players and it's 100% justified. He's a senior compared to most of these other bigs we talk about who are either Frehsman or Sophmores. Hibbert didn't even come close to being a factor like these other guys were at the same age. Heck, he's a 4 yr senior who had a MAJOR size advantage and yet he still only averaged 13 pts and 6.4 Reb (6.4!! that's awful for a guy his size...Donte Greene had more rebounds than that and he just stands on the perimeter). I absolutely expect Hibbery to have a higher BB IQ than these freshaman right now...it would be highly concerning if he didn't to be honest.

You can argue Georgetown played at a slow pace and that negated his numbers and while that's true, they still are very insignificant. Hibbert is a guy who can't get up and down the floor without getting winded very quickly. The fast pace of the NBA will expose his limitation even more. In games I saw, any time he was matched up against a guy who was about his size, he always seemed to struggle more than normal. That's concerning when you move to the bigger league.

Will Hibbert be the kind of player who steps in and makes a bigger imediate impact than Speights, Greene, McGee, Koufus, Hickson, etc.? ABSOLUTELY. Most of those other guys I think will struggle to find minutes as a rookie (unless placed in the perfect situation). The probelm is, Hibbert has almost no upside. If he can only pull down 6 RPG as a senior in college, what will that translate to in the NBA? On the other hand, pretty much every other good big in this draft has a significant upside. No doubt, that also means they are more likely to be busts, but the Sixers need to be looking for the star type player, not an NBA role player at 16 (much like the Thad pick, you pick for what you think someone will become 3-5 years down the road, not 1). You take the risk that you might pass over someone who can help more this year (Thornton) for a guy who can possibly be a starter/star 2-3 years down the road. Hibbert has Greg Ostertag written all over him. A slow plodding big who can block some shots and score a few points, but will always seem to leave you expecting more.

[STChaser]

Sendem,
I have to agree with Sixer Fixer on this one. And why waste our 16th pick on Hibbert when you could probably pick up a late 2nd rounder and get Kenny George, who's even bigger than Hibbert and probably similar in terms of speed?

STChaser

[SendEm]

Our #1 objective should be getting the best player available in the draft regardless of position. Our #1 need is to add legitimate NBA players to our roster, ie potential FULL TIME career starters. Right now outside of old man Miller, the Sixers only have 3 of those sorts of players: Thad, Iggy, and Sammy. I can't see drafting a PF or drafting a SF with the potential to play PF just because it is seen as a need position by people who still have the taste of last years playoff run in their mouthes. We don't have a need on the Sixers greater than increasing the talent level.

The Sixer fans are setting themselves up to continue to show the world the loser Philly fans that they are. If the Sixers draft a SG everyone in the city that call themselves a fan is going to be vocally upset and critical of the draft pick as if drafting #16 is like drafting 4th overall with the best PF still on the board. If Kevin Martin and Josh Howard are still on the board you have to take him, if Boozer is still on the board grab him, but taking a guy JUST BECAUSE he "fills a need" on a losing team is irresponsible. The need the Sixers have is simply to increase the talent base not fill a position as if we have four other career starters ON A WINNING TEAM for the next 6 years.

[The Sixer Fixer]

If Kevin Martin and Josh Howard are still on the board you have to take him, if Boozer is still on the board grab him, but taking a guy JUST BECAUSE he "fills a need" on a losing team is irresponsible. The need the Sixers have is simply to increase the talent base not fill a position as if we have four other career starters ON A WINNING TEAM for the next 6 years.

Ed is already on record as saying he thinks this draft is deep and that will allow the SIxers to draft for need AND still take the BPA at the same time. That tells me that they think a lot of guys targeted around picks 12-20 are very similar.