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I have been doing some thinking. All of these great SF's are on the market now, and we have Thad.

This means we really don't need one of them, right? That is a good thing, as other teams will get into bidding wars and overpay almost every time for some of these high profile players (R.Jefferson, Prince, etc.)

But if the Sixers are set at SF and SG(with Iggy), and apparently C, how else can they truly improve to become a champion?

The question is obviously about depth and upgrading the PF spot, along with some minor tweaks to PG because Miller is probably gone after this upcoming season.

So, do we have good depth? Willie Green, Carney, Smith, Evans, LW.

That is not championship depth. Not any one of em. Save for MAYBE Evans.

So, what can we do to fix our needs? Obviously it is more than a one offseason type dilemna.

But in the more immediate term, are we comfortable with Iggy, Thad, Daly as our main 3? No.

We want a PF like Brand, right? Well, some of us. But who do we want to be our championship PG? Rondo proved it doesn't take more than Defense and decent passing skills to accomplish this task, albeit with the help of some good offensive G's off the bench.

Well, we have offensive G's off the bench in LW and WG/Carney.

We do NOT have the big men necessary IMO. Daly, OK. I'll give you the D. Evans, again OK because of the D and hustle. Smith, maybe because of his offensive skills and hustle. But we need that 4th big guy. A banger down low who can just flat out score.

I for one am ok with watching Iggy and Thad at the wing positions, with Carney and WG/LW backing em up.

I truly think we need to use Miller as an asset, along with the 16th pick, and Utah's pick, to get a PF and a decent enough PG.

Who can that be? You tell me. Who do you think can be a combined package of scoring PF and decent PG that can be had for 2 1st picks and Dre Miller?

Lineup following trade:

C- Daly/Smith
PF- ?/Evans
SF- Thad/Carney
SG- Iggy/WG
PG- ?/LW


Phew, I am D-R-UNK. Somebody tell me if any of this makes sense......

I believe that adding even an average starting PF to this team provides a huge positive domino effect to the rest of the roster. Just being able to move Thad to his natural position where he's capable of physically dominating most opposing SFs is going to provide the Sixers with a huge advantage. It will also serve to take some of the scoring load off Iggy, which should allow him to focus more on what he's great at. Evans isn't a great starter, but with his toughness and hustle he's going to look great against other teams second units.

I think that a substantial improvement is also available by upgrading the bench. There are only 3 backups on the roster who are productive nba players IMO: Evans, Williams, and Smith. Except for the rare occasion when they hit a hot shooting streak, Carney and WG are basically negative players. Replacing them with productive backups provides a major boost to this team IMO.

[quote] "Except for the rare occasion when they hit a hot shooting streak, Carney and WG are basically negative players. Replacing them with productive backups provides a major boost to this team IMO."


Although that is such a prevailing opinion that I fear disagreeing, I will do so anyway. Please be tolerant because I am old and eccentric and make Larry Brown look like Mike D'Antoni.

I think we preach good defense, and even realize that we were a good defensive team, but do not always understand why, and oftentimes overlook it when evaluating players. I sometimes also believe we are more into the "sizzle" than the "steak". I only remember "Sendem" showing any appreciation for Carney's hard nosed defense, and I'm the only one who believes the same about Willie Green.

Everyone quotes to me from that famous site for "Statisticians Anonymous", but after watching the game and reviewing the box score, I almost invariably come to the conclusion that Willie did a good job in spite of the usual pay disparity. Let us take this years playoffs for example. Rip had his lowest (although good) points per game average against us. Against the best defensive team in the league, he shot 53%. He shot a better percentage against us than Orlando, but, strangely, had four more points/per against them.

I hear the same complaints about Miller, but I think we overlook the fact that he is our designated help defender. We also minimize the fact that LouWil is his (and often Willie's) backup, and is given the easiest guard, often putting Andre at a disadvantage against bigger twos and threes. In spite of everything, though, the same phenomenon occurred against Billups in the playoffs. I admit that he (relatively) stunk throughout, but we did hold him to 40% shooting and his (nominally) lowest PPG.

Now it is my opinion that, in contrast, Lou Williams is a worse back-court defender than even Ivy...and I would not say that lightly. Allen had the redeeming social value, however, of being able to score so prolifically that he always make up for his defense. Lou has the speed and is clutch. He also had some games when he was actually on fire. When I look at the totality of his work, however, his average and shooting percentage suggest that he is not that reliable scoring threat he is made out to be. I certainly admit that anyone, particularly the young, can, and often do, get better. But I do not think it is unfair to evaluate them on what they have actually done.

In summary, I believe that moving Green to backup, where you would expect a $3 mil/per player to be, automatically strengthens our bench. I know we will probably have to give someone up to balance dollars in a trade, but I would regret the loss of Rod or Willie almost as much as that of Reggie. And I only say "almost" because we need much more help in the front court than we do on the perimeter.

I agree that moving WG and Evans to the bench dramatically bolster the teams depth. They can be very effective defensive specialists.

Brand would immediately make this team a factor in the EC- if only we could get him to sign here for the 5yr/67 we have to offer.

I do want to try and take the long view. As long as we get some sort of good PF while Miller is still here we should be in good shape. tTe majority of the roster will be improving over the next few years, with some players like Young and Iguodala possibly blossoming into legit stars. It should be interesting to see who Ed comes up with the plug in at PF. There may not seem to be many players available, but with our cap space and tradable assets, he should be able to make something big happen.

See, it isn't that simple IMO TK. I don't want to assume that the majority of the roster will be improving. What if they don't? What if they get worse? Things like that do happen.

And I agree it makes our bench better, but who do we then use to start? I'm cool with Iggy and Thad, but is everyone else? Do we all think that those 2, alongside Daly, Miller, and a guy like Brand could win a championship?

I think we need to rethink like Saturn and come up with an alternative plan for winning.

Do we really think Thad can be that guy? Or do we all just have man-crushes on him for his performance and "potential"? Would we rather have a proven asset? Or wait for him to develop, which he very well might not?

That's the point of this thread I guess.

With the current assets the Sixers have, if you had to retool the lineup into championship material THIS season, what would you do? Who would you want? Realistically, of course.

Realistically, I would look into acquiring Tracy McGrady.

Iguodala
Evans
16th

for McGrady should get it done. To the Rockets, Iguodala's a 20 PPG swingman and several years younger then McGrady. Iggy won't have to create his own shot because Yao can create it for him. Evans is a hustle player off the bench and they get another pick.

Then with a superstar like McGrady abord, we convince Elton Brand to sign with Philly.

Daly
Brand
Young
McGrady
Miller

51X3RF4N wrote:
That's the point of this thread I guess.

With the current assets the Sixers have, if you had to retool the lineup into championship material THIS season, what would you do? Who would you want? Realistically, of course.

....
With Brand we would have a punchers chance of getting to the ECF over the next 3 years. Maybe even a finals appearance. More likely we would be 50-55 win upper eschelon EC team but not make the finals.

That's about the most we can hope for- and I'm fine with that given the horrible state of the franchise 2 years ago when we had AI, CW and were headed in the wrong direction. Boston may have turned from bad to WC overnight, but that was only after years of lottery or mediocrity and accumulating tons of raw, unproven talent that they could swap for KG and Allen. Not to mention they tanked.

The Sixers started rebuilding 18 months ago- I don't expect a shot at a championship next year. I hope that Iguodala, Thad and Lou will be much better in 3 years, and we will have added more pieces by then. In the meantime, ideally we can squeeze some exciting winning seasons out of Miller and a FA like Brand while we wait for the rest of the team to reach their prime.

Are you guys going to re-sign L Williams? What's the deal with him? I know it's OT but I didn't want to make a new topic.

He's a RFA & the GM has already stated that they'll match any offer for Iguodala & Lou Williams. I don't expect teams to make a run at him (Williams) since Philly will be so far under the cap this season that financial considerations will not be present. But if someone makes a MLE offer, I'm sure they'll match that.

Here's how I would love to see the draft go...

Miller/Green/Evans to Portland for Frye/LaFrentz/Koponen/#13.

Move up from 16 to get Anthony Randolph (say 16/and a future 1).

Take the best/most versatile big @ 13...Koufos

After Thursday, the Sixers would end up with...

Williams/Koponen
Iguodala/Carney
Young/Randolph
Frye/Smith/Lafrentz
Sam/Koufos/Booth

You head into FA with the big men situation much improved from last year. PG is young, and still needs some veteran leadership, while the SG spot is upgraded, but may be addressed further with a s/t in FA. Randolph is placed at the SF position, but his position is really a wild card right now. Is he ultimately an athletic PF, or is he a really long point forward down the road. His upside is tremendous, and worth the risk either way.

If I'm on the plane Thursday night, and the Sixers have made moves similar to this, I'll be a happy camper. Then FA begins...we'll have to see where they sit after the draft to really gauge where they go in FA.

(I like that Gordon apparently stated he sees himself as a PG, and if he can make it work as a point, he's worth consideration as well...I'm not so sure that works, and my preference still would be Randolph).

Kevin Ollie is gone so we're in need of a 3rd PG. We also need a 3 point shooter. Roger Mason Jr. fills both of those needs. Willie Green is really in the way. Maybe the Cavs can take Willie off of our hands. It's also simply amazing that all of last season Thad and Iggy probably played together at the SF and SG spots like 10 minutes total for the entire season. It would have been nice to get a preview of what will eventually be. See this is the type of thing that makes me want Mo Cheeks fired.

These are the lineups that I wanted to see but only happened as an anomaly caused by weird circumstances

Dalembert
Jason Smith
Thad
Iggy
Miller

Dalembert
Jason Smith
Thad
Iggy
Lou Williams

This lineup played a respectable amount of time and sparked MANY comebacks
Dalembert
Thad
Iggy
Carney
Lou Will

This lineup would ALWAYS have one of either Miller, Iggy, or Evans in it.
Dalembert
Jason Smith
Thad
Carney
Lou Will

From those lineups you can tell that I wanted to see Lou Williams and Thad play PF and SG far less than they were asked to do.

SendEm wrote: Willie Green is really in the way.

Truest statement EVER.

I agree 100%. Those line-up should have been thrown out there.

I guess in Mo's defense- if there is one- Carney, Thad and Smith will be much better in those types of line-ups in 2 years, when they are stronger, better scores, etc. Last year Thad lacked the handle to play extended SF minutes, Carney lacked the court sense/experience to play SG and Smith lacked the strength and experience to be a factor at PF.

I do agree that those line-up should be part of the Sixers future, and it would be good to see if they would be effective.

SendEm wrote:Kevin Ollie is gone so we're in need of a 3rd PG. We also need a 3 point shooter. Roger Mason Jr. fills both of those needs.

Was shocked to see him listed as a PG...always viewed him more as a SG. At 6'5", and coming off the season he had, he's a decent pickup as a backup PG. Late bloomer...he really played well last season, but had nothing to show for the rest of his career.