WIP: Rumblings about a trade with Iguodala?

[jmon]

well iguodala can be considered SG too considering thats what he will most likely play next year. all those players have played SF in their lives, Iverson and monta ellis havent which is why i did not add them but i added guys like kobe bryant who is a SG but can cover SFs and play the position

You can't just add SGs and PFs. It defeats categorizing them. Kobe Bryant is a top 10 PG as well probably. Lebron as well.

paul pierce
vince carter - NO.
lebron james
tracy mcgrady
carmelo anthnoy
ron artest - close, but no
kobe bryant - SG
josh smith - PF and not close
shawn marion - PF
richard jefferson - SF and NO
those are 10 SFs better than iguodala

rashard lewis(close. but no), kevin durant(lol), caron butler(close one), tayshaun prince(close one), corey maggette(no), josh howard(can you say overrated?), gerald wallace(lol), hedo turkoglu(close), danny granger(close)

That is how I see your list. If you want explanations for anyone, I am more than willing.

[76ersFan1]

no need for explanations you just said iguodala is the #5 SF in the league behind paul pierce, lebron james, tracy mcgrady, carmelo anthony. Shows how biased you are towards iguodala and how you disregard everyone elses talent in the league and that only iguodala can play 2 positions and be listed as both.

Tracy McGrady- Career average of 22.4 PPG, 6.2 RPG, 4.7 APG.+ 32.1 PPG single season high
Paul Pierce- Career average of 23.1 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 3.9 APG. + 26.8 PPG single season high
LeBron James- Career average of 27.3 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 6.6 APG. + 31.4 PPG single season high
Carmelo Anthony- Career average of 24.4 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 3.0 APG. + 28.9 PPG single season high
Andre Iguodala- Career average of 14.8 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 4.1 APG. + 19.9 PPG single season high

One of these is not like the others. can you spot it? I don't think iguodala can be mentioned as a part of this company just yet

[jmon]

no need for explanations you just said iguodala is the #5 SF in the league behind paul pierce, lebron james, tracy mcgrady, carmelo anthony. Shows how biased you are towards iguodala and how you disregard everyone elses talent in the league and that only iguodala can play 2 positions and be listed as both.

Tracy McGrady- Career average of 22.4 PPG, 6.2 RPG, 4.7 APG.+ 32.1 PPG single season high
Paul Pierce- Career average of 23.1 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 3.9 APG. + 26.8 PPG single season high
LeBron James- Career average of 27.3 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 6.6 APG. + 31.4 PPG single season high
Carmelo Anthony- Career average of 24.4 PPG, 6.0 RPG, 3.0 APG. + 28.9 PPG single season high
Andre Iguodala- Career average of 14.8 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 4.1 APG. + 19.9 PPG single season high

One of these is not like the others. can you spot it? I don't think iguodala can be mentioned as a part of this company just yet

Well, you misunderstand me. I clearly say "close, but no" and "close." Where I say "close," I do not indicate he is better or worse. I suppose I should have been more clear. I was just getting him into the top 10. I felt I didn't need to argue him any higher than 10, although I would.

Your reasoning is hilarious though nonetheless. Taking career ppg even though Iguodala is younger and hasn't had a chance to pull up his #s from when he played a near non-existent role on this team. That is calling skewing your statistics and unnecessarily I might add lol.

[76ersFan1]

mcgrady has 4 years on him, anthony is the same age, lebron is 1 year younger, and pierce of course is older and has 6 years on him. So he is younger than 2 of the 4. i also added the single season high to show he is not close in his season high OR career average to try to reduce the "skewing". in fact his single season high isnt close to all 4 of their career averages there is nothing skewed about that.

[jmon]

mcgrady has 4 years on him, anthony is the same age, lebron is 1 year younger, and pierce of course is older and has 6 years on him. So he is younger than 2 of the 4. i also added the single season high to show he is not close in his season high OR career average to try to reduce the "skewing". in fact his single season high isnt close to all 4 of their career averages there is nothing skewed about that.

I claimed him to be in the top 10, not top 5.

[jmon]

You aren't even responding effectively to my posts. You are being selective. Andre Iguodala is as good a SF as Rip is a SG and Parker is a PG. It really is that simple and when you start listing guys that is how it works out.

[76ersFan1]

but that he's "close" to top 5 which i think is ridiculous. anyway its pointless to argue. it is what it is he is a 20 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 4 APG #1 option you think thats top 5-10 i think hes closer to 15+ so agree to disagree

[jmon]

but that he's "close" to top 5 which i think is ridiculous. anyway its pointless to argue. it is what it is he is a 20 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 4 APG #1 option you think thats top 5-10 i think hes closer to 15+ so agree to disagree

yeah. We shouldn't clog this up much more anyway.

[PowerElite]

well iguodala can be considered SG too considering thats what he will most likely play next year. all those players have played SF in their lives, Iverson and monta ellis havent which is why i did not add them but i added guys like kobe bryant who is a SG but can cover SFs and play the position

You can't just add SGs and PFs. It defeats categorizing them. Kobe Bryant is a top 10 PG as well probably. Lebron as well.

paul pierce
vince carter - NO.
lebron james
tracy mcgrady
carmelo anthnoy
ron artest - close, but no
kobe bryant - SG
josh smith - PF and not close
shawn marion - PF
richard jefferson - SF and NO
those are 10 SFs better than iguodala

rashard lewis(close. but no), kevin durant(lol), caron butler(close one), tayshaun prince(close one), corey maggette(no), josh howard(can you say overrated?), gerald wallace(lol), hedo turkoglu(close), danny granger(close)

That is how I see your list. If you want explanations for anyone, I am more than willing.

Rashard Lewis is better than Dala and so is Caron Butler. If Dala were a better player than Rashard Lewis he still wouldn't be a restricted free agent right now, he would already be under contract for a deal probably averaging $14-15 million per year. Caron Butler is an All Star.

[UptownPhilly]

I'll take Iguodala over Lewis any day of the week.

[PowerElite]

I'll take Iguodala over Lewis any day of the week.

I hear you. But that's not the point. Rashard Lewis is clearly a better more talented and skilled player than Dala.

[Sixerscan]

I'm not saying that PER is perfect by any means, and that wages of wins blog is really interesting to read, but any stat that ranks Evans in front of LeBron James (I believe that was in 06/07) needs some kinks worked out. There's public perception and then there's a laugh test that any stat has to go through.

I'm not sure how much we'll miss Evans' rebounding. Brand is no slouch himself. As long as Mo does the right thing and plays Andre at the 2 and thad at the 3 for most of the game we'll be fine, and obviously we'll improve in other things to balance it out.

I haven't been reading the blog long enough to really be able to confirm or deny the Lebron-Evans thing, but WP48 has to be adjusted for position. PFs have considerably higher WP48 than SFs, so you have to adjust for the postion if you want to compare across position.

Brand really isn't that good of a rebounder. He gets 1.5 more rebounds than Thad per 36 minutes, and 3 less than Evans per 36, so he is closer to Thaddeus than Evans.

As Bill Simmons pointed out, Brand plays a lot of minutes, so he gets a lot of rebounds. He is no rebounding beast by any stretch.

EDIT: Forgot per 36, fixed.

Didn't know that about positions, makes sense.

I didn't say Brand was great, i said he wasn't bad. The amount of boards he gets is fine, and the Clippers were fairly consistently a better rebounding team with him on the floor.

[Sixerscan]

I'll take Iguodala over Lewis any day of the week.

I hear you. But that's not the point. Rashard Lewis is clearly a better more talented and skilled player than Dala.

Why would you take someone you think is a less talented player?

[tk76]

Please clear something up for me. You are listing 10 players who will make between 2 and 10M more than Iguodala next year. Why would you expect him to be better than players who get paid way more than him.

I don't want the TMAc trade because he is older than his 29 years, and has seen his production decline for 5 consecutive seasons. Even "healthy" he just isn't the superstart player he once was, but gets paid 22M. Iguodala will enter his prime and be a great 3rd option as Young steps up on offense- the perfect glue guy. TMac will continue to decline because a bad back does not suddenly heal, just like CWebb's knee never healed.

Then if you let TMac expire you will have nothing. In 2 years his 22M will get eaten up because the Sixers likely will be way over the cap. 40M will go to Sam, Brand, Lou and WG. Thats only 4 player. There will be 15M of cap holds for Young and Smith. That's 55M for 6 players. How does this allow the Sixers to be legit players for players like Lebron who will be eligible for 20M starting salaries?

I am happy to see the Sixers a good team now, and a good team for the forseeable future. Iguodala will be paid a salary about 50th highest in the league- more than fair for his future role where he will be a offensive facilitator and be able to be part of a great running and defensive swing due with Young. The team might get to the finals or they might not, but they will be an entertaining, mostly home grown 50+ win team for the foreseeable future.

I grew up in the late 70's/early 80's. I remember championships. I also no what it is like to have a moribund franchise. Give me a decade of sustained success over a two year misguided all or nothing shot at a championship any day. Especially since in the next 2 years Boston and LA will clearly be better than the Sixers anyway.

[76ersFan1]

I'll take Iguodala over Lewis any day of the week.

I hear you. But that's not the point. Rashard Lewis is clearly a better more talented and skilled player than Dala.

Why would you take someone you think is a less talented player?

you would take a less talented player because they fit the teams style/needs better and get paid less. While i think iguodala is probably less than top 15 SF in terms of talent and skill i think he's top 10 for SF that fit this team

[jmon]

Please clear something up for me. You are listing 10 players who will make between 2 and 10M more than Iguodala next year. Why would you expect him to be better than players who get paid way more than him.

Well, I think everyone agrees he isn't a max contract type of player. Once we get beyond that, we see that 12-13 million a year is pretty much above average for the rest of the players you will find on the list. Butler, Prince, Artest, Magette, Hedo, Josh Howard all make less if I am not mistaken... more than a Kevin Martin. Couple that with the complete lack of leverage that Iguodala has and I think he gets the money we should.

I don't want the TMAc trade because he is older than his 29 years, and has seen his production decline for 5 consecutive seasons. Even "healthy" he just isn't the superstart player he once was, but gets paid 22M. Iguodala will enter his prime and be a great 3rd option as Young steps up on offense- the perfect glue guy. TMac will continue to decline because a bad back does not suddenly heal, just like CWebb's knee never healed.

agreed. Some people have rightfully pointed out that McGrady's back has been a non-issue for 2 years though.

Then if you let TMac expire you will have nothing. In 2 years his 22M will get eaten up because the Sixers likely will be way over the cap. 40M will go to Sam, Brand, Lou and WG. Thats only 4 player. There will be 15M of cap holds for Young and Smith. That's 55M for 6 players. How does this allow the Sixers to be legit players for players like Lebron who will be eligible for 20M starting salaries?

Lebron would never come to Philly I am pretty sure. Thad and Smith's QOs aren't until the following offseason as well I believe. We would have plenty of capspace.

I grew up in the late 70's/early 80's. I remember championships. I also no what it is like to have a moribund franchise. Give me a decade of sustained success over a two year misguided all or nothing shot at a championship any day. Especially since in the next 2 years Boston and LA will clearly be better than the Sixers anyway.

Good little ending there. I agree.

[PowerElite]

you would take a less talented player because they fit the teams style/needs better and get paid less. While i think iguodala is probably less than top 15 SF in terms of talent and skill i think he's top 10 for SF that fit this team

I wholeheartedly agree. As a basketball player R. Lewis is clearly better than Dala. The subject was about top 10 SF. Lewis would be higher on that list than Dala as far as basketball skills, effect on the game, and accomplishments go. Caron Butler would be also.

[UptownPhilly]

I'll take Iguodala over Lewis any day of the week.

I hear you. But that's not the point. Rashard Lewis is clearly a better more talented and skilled player than Dala.

Why would you take someone you think is a less talented player?

I don't think Rashard is more talented than Iguodala. Where'd you get that from?

[psykosacul]

ill tell you what would really suck...

iggy signing a one year deal instead of either resigning long term or being traded for value. we would really be screwed then, and instead of arguing about how good he is compared to other players, we would be wondering who will fill the void when he walks away.

him not being signed yet is getting on my nerves.

[Sixerscan]

I don't think Rashard is more talented than Iguodala. Where'd you get that from?

[/quote]

I didn't quote you...

Lewis doesn't play defense, I'll take our guy. But if I thought Lewis was "clearly" a better player I would take him regardless because it's more important to have good players and then figure out how to plug them in.