Sixers sign guard Royal Ivey

[Phillyboy]

Four pages on Royal Ivey. We really need something to talk about.

As has been said earlier Ivey is simply a 3rd PG and a roster fill out move. He'll get Ollie minutes. So let's not read anything into this other than that.

Not a particularly good defender or shooter (the shooter talk is the most amusing of the thread thus far) and as Sixerscan stated, at least with Ollie, he wasn't flashy but he took care of the basketball, set pace and ran plays like a vet PG should.

The only way ivey gets any minutes is from injury to one of our guards and foul trouble with another he might see a double digit minute night. His biggest impact to this team will be in practices.

[carltong23]

Four pages on Royal Ivey. We really need something to talk about.

As has been said earlier Ivey is simply a 3rd PG and a roster fill out move. He'll get Ollie minutes. So let's not read anything into this other than that.

Not a particularly good defender or shooter (the shooter talk is the most amusing of the thread thus far) and as Sixerscan stated, at least with Ollie, he wasn't flashy but he took care of the basketball, set pace and ran plays like a vet PG should.

The only way ivey gets any minutes is from injury to one of our guards and foul trouble with another he might see a double digit minute night. His biggest impact to this team will be in practices.

At least somebody has sense

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Westbrook36: He's also 32 and expiring. Whilst Lou Will may be ready to take over, we don't know that yet. What we do know is that Mo Williams is an excellent offensive PG capable of getting others involved and shooting the 3 ball. And he has a long contract.

With a future defensive studded front court of Thad/Brand/Daly for years to come, not to mention Iggy if he gets his head out of his ass and realizes his worth/value around the league. We can mask Mo's shortcomings and get the most out of him.

Mo Williams stats last year:
17.2 PPG, 6.3 APG on 38 percent THREE POINT shooting.

This team is perfect for Mo Williams. It masks his weaknesses and via a Brand/Daly frontcourt, it exercises on his strengths(shooting) as well.

Given the chance to do Williams for Miller, I do it twice and don't think about it.

[LongLiveHinkie]

That is insanity. Mo Williams has no business running an offense let alone a team. He can shoot well, but there is much more to the game than that.

Also Miller's age is irrelevant. We are in win-now mode with Brand signing.

Total insanity to take Williams over Miller.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Do you hate Milwaukee in a similar fashion to your hatred of Boston?

Let me compare what was arguably Miller's 2nd best season to the CLE yr(this yr) to Mo Williams's year this yr. Let's see if you can find any signifcant difference.

Andre Miller stats last year:
17.0 PPG, 7.0 APG, 4.0 RPG on 49 percent field goal percent shooting(0.88 percent 3pt shooting).

Mo Williams stats:
17.2 PPG, 6.3 APG, 3.5 RPG on 48 percent field goal percent shooting(38 percent 3pt shooting)

Miller barely edges out Williams on dimes and rebounds.

But given Mo's good overall FG percent shooting, and his far superior 3pt shooting. The stats conclude, as I did that Mo Williams is the far better PG. Especially given that we have 4 quality defenders in our lineup.


The stats don't lie: It's not total insanity, it's what is called an "upgrade".

[LongLiveHinkie]

Lmao, yes the stats DO lie.

90% of the time stats lie. Man, you need to stop with the stats, they mean nothing. Stats don't account for the things that you don't see on a score sheet.

Like leadership, experience, etc.

I'm sorry but as a scorer Mo Williams is good. As a PG? He sucks. He is not, nor will ever be a starting PG for an championship team. Miller is leaps and bounds superior. Not even frickin close.

I don't mean this in an offensive way, but stats are for people who don't understand the game.

[jmon]

Ivey's problem is not that he can't shoot. He has problems finishing around the rim or doing much of anything off the dribble.

Should Ivey see minutes ideally? No. Do the Sixers have a deep backcourt? No. They are 3 deep at best in my book. Miller, Lou, and Iguodala. Ivey is of the same caliber of Green, which is a guy who shouldn't be in a rotation for a mediocre team, let alone one trying to contend. Ivey also has consistently been a more efficient jump shooter when compared to Green.

[jmon]

Lmao, yes the stats DO lie.

90% of the time stats lie. Man, you need to stop with the stats, they mean nothing. Stats don't account for the things that you don't see on a score sheet.

Like leadership, experience, etc.

I'm sorry but as a scorer Mo Williams is good. As a PG? He sucks. He is not, nor will ever be a starting PG for an NBA team. Miller is leaps and bounds superior. Not even frickin close.

I don't mean this in an offensive way, but stats are for people who don't understand the game.

Saying "stats are for people who don't understand the game" is something people who don't understand stats say.

I agree. with most of what you are saying, but Mo Williams is a starting PG in this league... Mo Williams is an OK point guard. Miller is far better though. The argument here is about age I think.

[LongLiveHinkie]

I edited my post by switching out NBA with championship. I mistyped what I meant to say.

Anyway, stats really are meaningless. Well, let me clarify. Stats have meaning, but only to an extent. Since each situation varies, and the extent the stats matter to each situation varies, it is impossible to just universally use them for one meaning.

Since it is impossible to define one general scenario for which stats can define something, you really can't rely on them.

Otherwise, you'd just rank the top 10 players in the league by stats alone, and you couldn't argue it, because stats don't lie.

[carltong23]

I'm sorry but as a scorer Mo Williams is good. As a PG? He sucks. He is not, nor will ever be a starting PG for an championship team. Miller is leaps and bounds superior. Not even frickin close.

And you think Andre Miller will be a starting point guard for a championship team? How many starting point guards for championship teams shoot .088 from the three besides Rondo who had 3 hall-of-famers on his team and guys like House and Posey to cover for him off the bench?

Im sorry, but this homerism has got to stop. Yes Andre Miller has been great for us in the post Iverson era. He's helped our young guys develop and gotten us into the playoffs(even if he did kill our lottery chances). But he is not a point guard who will lead us to a championship unless he were surrounded by a team of shooters, and even then theres no gaurantee. The only reason we needed him after Iverson left was to help the team stay cohesive and take the pressure off of the young guys. Now that we have Elton Brand down low, we have no need for a "pure point guard" who cant shoot to save his life, regardless of his age. We need someone who can walk the ball upcourt, run a play, play defense, and hit the 3-pointer slightly above average(35%+).At least Rondo is young and might improve his shooting but at age 33, Andre is what he is. If we're gonna have an older veteran point guard Id rather have a Chauncey Billups who has at least been an All-star, Finals MVP, and can shoot better than 1% from the 3 point line(and 90% from the foul line:clutch).

If we go younger, Hinrich, Ben Gordon, or maybe even Mo Williams would be better. But please lets not give Andre Miller more credit than he deserves. He was just as bad as Iguodala the last 2 1/2 games against the Pistons in the playoffs. Miller is not he long-term or short term answer(and probably neither is Lou Williams as a starter).

[Sixercise]

Nice pickup for the Sixers....but I'd still like to see them get the shooter. : /

[LongLiveHinkie]

I'm sorry but as a scorer Mo Williams is good. As a PG? He sucks. He is not, nor will ever be a starting PG for an championship team. Miller is leaps and bounds superior. Not even frickin close.

And you think Andre Miller will be a starting point guard for a championship team? How many starting point guards for championship teams shoot .088 from the three besides Rondo who had 3 hall-of-famers on his team and guys like House and Posey to cover for him off the bench?

Im sorry, but this homerism has got to stop. Yes Andre Miller has been great for us in the post Iverson era. He's helped our young guys develop and gotten us into the playoffs(even if he did kill our lottery chances). But he is not a point guard who will lead us to a championship unless he were surrounded by a team of shooters, and even then theres no gaurantee. The only reason we needed him after Iverson left was to help the team stay cohesive and take the pressure off of the young guys. Now that we have Elton Brand down low, we have no need for a "pure point guard" who cant shoot to save his life, regardless of his age. We need someone who can walk the ball upcourt, run a play, play defense, and hit the 3-pointer slightly above average(35%+).At least Rondo is young and might improve his shooting but at age 33, Andre is what he is. If we're gonna have an older veteran point guard Id rather have a Chauncey Billups who has at least been an All-star, Finals MVP, and can shoot better than 1% from the 3 point line(and 90% from the foul line:clutch).

If we go younger, Hinrich, Ben Gordon, or maybe even Mo Williams would be better. But please lets not give Andre Miller more credit than he deserves. He was just as bad as Iguodala the last 2 1/2 games against the Pistons in the playoffs. Miller is not he long-term or short term answer(and probably neither is Lou Williams as a starter).

Lmao, Hinrich, Gordon? You're joking right. Also what does 3 point shooting have to do with anything? Since when do PGs need to be great 3 point shooters? Miller doesn't shoot 3's. It just isn't what he does. You act like that % is bad. The dude attempts like 30 3's a season. It isn't homerism, it is reality. Miller is absolutely the short-term answer. Unless we can somehow magically land Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Miller is a top 6 PG in the NBA, and no that is not overrating.

I also like how you forget that we don't even make the playoffs without Andre Miller before trashing him in the last 2 playoff games.

[is1531]

Ricky Davis for 3. Ed, just do it, even if it's only for 1 year. A 40% 3 point shooter can not hurt. I pass on Jamont Gordon and Carroll.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

This discussion ends right here.

1.Chris Paul
2.Steve Nash
3.Deron Williams
4.Jason Kidd
5.Tony Parker
6.Baron Davis
7.Chanucey Billups
8.Agent 0
9.Allen Iverson
10.Andre Miller

Any complaints with that list. I doubt there'll be any.

Edit: Stop! It wasn't just Andre Miller. Because if that were the case, why were a lottery team before Ed Stefanski came in? Ed set the system in place and understood how the team would compete on a given night.

Thaddeus and the young kids fueled the playoff run. Andre Miller just helped sustain it.

Don't make Miller into what he's not.

[freshie2]

Are Agent 0 and Iverson PGs?

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

They are PG'S much in the way that Steve Nash is, only Nash is able to create a tad bit better and passes more. PG'S like Arenas and Iverson is what makes title contenders. It's as Arenas said.

If he had played within the system and played within himself, the Wizards might actually escape the first round.

[ckchen]

Ollies minimum would've been bigger than Ivey's minimum. Besides, Ivey has better size and therefore can defend opposing guards. Not to mention he at least HAS got 3pt range which is more than you can say for Ollie. Ivey will be good for the occasional 3 and may very well improve in that department.

All Ollie would've brought is some veteran leadership but the dude is nearly 36 years old and not worth it imo.

The league reimburses the difference between a 2 year vet and a >2 year vet. Against the cap, Ollie would have counted as more, but the league would reimburse some money for Ollie or for Ivey, so Olli's minimum is the same for the Sixers.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#11

I'm sure it has more to do with age - Ollie is 36 and almost ready to be a coach more than play another year. Why not go with someone younger, with at least some (however minimal) potential to improve, yet still experienced to play as a veteran 3rd PG? To me, that's clearly why they signed Ivey over someone like Ollie.

Even guys at the level of Pargo are holding out for 3yr deals for more money than the minimum. There's just simply no way we get someone that great for the league minimum at this point in time. Look, if someone slips through the cracks and is desperate to be signed before training camps start (arroyo, maybe flip murray, dan dickau) - sure - make a move then. But at this stage of FA - which is still months away from training camp - those guys are going to hold out for more money than the minimum.

[LongLiveHinkie]

I'll take Miller over Parker, Kidd, Iverson, and Arenas.

I'm not making him into something he isn't. You aren't giving him enough credit. He was our team MVP last season and made the team into what it was. Without him, subtract at least 15 wins off our record.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

I'll take Miller over Parker, Kidd, Iverson, and Arenas.

I'm not making him into something he isn't. You aren't giving him enough credit. He was our team MVP last season and made the team into what it was. Without him, subtract at least 15 wins off our record.

I even think Miller is under-rated, but Tony Parker is one of the best PG'S in the game. He's one of those players who prove you right about stats not meaning anything. Parker's an excellent defender/scorer and plays within the system. Parker>>>>Miller, and it's not even close.

Miller over Kidd can be argued. But what Dallas really needed was a legit big. Not a veteran PG. Kidd still averaged his usual rbs and assists. Kidd was still at the top of his game. And a hall of famer PG like Jason Kidd> An All-star caliber PG in Miller.

The atmosphere with Iverson was really tight and obviously, the calmness of Andre Miller helped develop and mature this team. But, if you assume everything were to start all over. Iverson's one of the best playmakers in the league. Bar a select few elite PG'S who just happen to be younger. Iverson> Miller and don't make me say it again.

It's a different scenario in Washington, but one must take into account Agent 0's youth. He's just a great playmaker and pheneomonal scorer. But when it comes to PG play, for now it's Miller. But if Agent 0 has really caught on, then he's better then Miller.

[jmon]

I'll take Miller over Parker, Kidd, Iverson, and Arenas.

I'm not making him into something he isn't. You aren't giving him enough credit. He was our team MVP last season and made the team into what it was. Without him, subtract at least 15 wins off our record.

Agreed. Calderon and Rondo are arguably better though. I would say Calderon and Miller are neck and neck. Rondo is closing fast.