Greater Trade Value: Iguodala or Josh Smith?

Post #1 » by **The Guilty Party** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:47 pm

I have a couple of questions...

1) The AJC is reporting that the Hawks have two offers in for a sign-and-trade for Josh Smith. Obviously negotiations between Smith and the Hawks have gone much further south than the Sixers negotiations with Iguodala so I don't expect to hear that the Sixers are fielding offers for their guy. That said, if both were available via sign-and-trade, which player do you believe would fetch more in return? Smith and Iguodala have been listed as 1 & 2 as the best RFAs available with both taking the #1 spot according to various websites.

Who's got more value?

2) There has been plenty discussed about BYC issues regarding Andre Iguodala. Some have said he will be a BYC is he signs to anything above his cap hold and I've read others who have said he will not be a BYC player. Don't the Hawks have more salary committed than us to their current roster of players? Doesn't Smith have a smaller cap hold than Andre Iguodala???

If that is the case, then how is it that the Hawks are fielding sign-and-trade offers for Smith since all but one team is over the cap in the league (Memphis) and it's extremely unlikely they are the ones going after Smith. Isn't it damn near impossible to trade a BYC player to another team over the cap?

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #2 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:59 pm

I'm gonna answer the first question, since I know next to **** about the second.

Josh Smith, and I'm not thinking twice. Smith's one of the most explosive weakside shotblockers the game has ever seen at 3 BPG. And he runs awesome in transition. If Smith can actually develop that 3 he keeps on shooting, it's feasible he becomes a 20 PPG Scorer(he already averaged 17 last year)

Meanwhile, Iggy's 24. He's had all of the time in the world, he's never going to develop his shooting or handles. He's merely a great 3rd option for a title contender.

Post #3 » by **The Guilty Party** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:23 pm

I believe Smith might have a little more value as well but I have to ask... do you really believe that a player at age 24 won't improve his game??? That's fairly insane.

ankle420breaker · Post #4 » by **ankle420breaker** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:29 pm

Dedicated_76ers_fan wrote:I'm gonna answer the first question, since I know next to **** about the second.

Josh Smith, and I'm not thinking twice. Smith's one of the most explosive weakside shotblockers the game has ever seen at 3 BPG. And he runs awesome in transition. If Smith can actually develop that 3 he keeps on shooting, it's feasible he becomes a 20 PPG Scorer(he already averaged 17 last year)

Meanwhile, Iggy's 24. He's had all of the time in the world, he's never going to develop his shooting or handles. He's merely a great 3rd option for a title contender.

Without thinking twice, huh? Smith runs awesome in transitions (just like Iguodala), he could develop a 3 point shot AND BECOME a 20ppg scorer (Iguodala already has a 3pt shot and is a 20ppg scorer).

I also love how you say that Iguodala is 24 (a young age) and that he's had all of the time in the world to improve his shooting and handles. First of all, Iguodala has gotten better from year to year and he's yet to enter his prime. 2nd, Josh Smith's handle is weak and his shooting makes Iguodala look like Ray Allen.

I'm not saying that Iguodala is far superior to Josh Smith, I actually think its pretty close, but your logic makes absolutely no sense.

LongLiveHinkie · Post #5 » by **LongLiveHinkie** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:37 pm

Smiff probably does, but Iguodala is a better player, but more than a small margin. People just like Smiff's size.

IversonsMother · Post #6 » by **IversonsMother** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:01 pm

Dedicated_76ers_fan wrote:I'm gonna answer the first question, since I know next to **** about the second.

Josh Smith, and I'm not thinking twice. Smith's one of the most explosive weakside shotblockers the game has ever seen at 3 BPG. And he runs awesome in transition. If Smith can actually develop that 3 he keeps on shooting, it's feasible he becomes a 20 PPG Scorer(he already averaged 17 last year)

Meanwhile, Iggy's 24. He's had all of the time in the world, he's never going to develop his shooting or handles. He's merely a great 3rd option for a title contender.

Iggy has improved his ball handeling and shooting tremendously since he entered the league. His ball handeling is better than Smiths.

Post #7 » by **tk76** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:15 pm

Westbrook36 wrote:Smiff probably does, but Iguodala is a better player, but more than a small margin. People just like Smiff's size.

Agreed. Iguodala is a slightly better and more complete player- especially since he was able to cut down his T.O.'s last year. Both have the potential to be stars, but its unclear if either will reach that level. Both have similar limitations where they are not great shooters and not polished scorers at their positions (Smith lacks polish and efficiency as a post scorer.)

Ultimately Smith is worth more because a SF/PF who blocks shots is viewed as more valuable than a SG/SF who gets steals.

bebopdeluxe · Post #8 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:11 am

2's and 3's are a dime a dozen...but young, shotblocking bigs will ALWAYS be worth more.

(Ummm....what was Sammy's contract again?)

In terms of who is a better player, it might be Iguodala...but that is not the question here. What player has more VALUE?

All I know is it sounds like Stefanski was ready to give Smith money that he may not want to give Iguodala. While I understand that is not a fair comparison for us (as Iggy is our RFA), it is a fair statement for the rest of the league - as they are the same to everybody else.

I just wish that Iggy would stop being such a f*cking drama queen, sign a fair deal (say, 6/70), and let this team move on with the rest of its business.

Post #9 » by **Stanford** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:48 am

I don't think that's fair. How do you know it's not the philly organization stalling the negotiations? And if we're talking about drama queens, what about the guy in Atlanta who's refused to play for the coach they recently signed to an extension.

IversonsMother · Post #10 » by **IversonsMother** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:28 am

bebopdeluxe wrote:2's and 3's are a dime a dozen...but young, shotblocking bigs will ALWAYS be worth more.

(Ummm....what was Sammy's contract again?)

In terms of who is a better player, it might be Iguodala...but that is not the question here. What player has more VALUE?

All I know is it sounds like Stefanski was ready to give Smith money that he may not want to give Iguodala. While I understand that is not a fair comparison for us (as Iggy is our RFA), it is a fair statement for the rest of the league - as they are the same to everybody else.

I just wish that Iggy would stop being such a f*cking drama queen, sign a fair deal (say, 6/70), and let this team move on with the rest of its business.

6 years $70 mil?? Can't sign something that is not being offered.

psykosacul · Post #11 » by **psykosacul** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:43 am

i believe smith has higher trade value for four reasons...

1. size
2. hype
3. situation: any team trading for smith is well aware of the ownership situation and knows that atlanta is not dealing from a power position. - essentially that means you are only bidding against other interested teams... and with so many teams cap strapped this year, its not likely there will be many terrific offers out there. conversely the sixers just signed a star and made a commitment to be good this year... that has to make you think they wont take back junk in return for iggy, but would rather overpay him to remain a "contender"
4. i think there is a belief that smith has more "potential" to grow than iggy. its almost backwards... because smiths jump shot sucks so badly people see josh as having more room to grow. why the assumption is made that he will ever develop a better jump shot than iggy already has i dont know.

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #12 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:23 am

I don't mean basic ballhandling. Look back at the playoff series W/Detroit. If Iguodala had any kind of break down game, it becomes much easier for the Sixers in the half court. Combined with playing against Prince and his long arms. Iguodala became redundant.

A Lack of a break down game and perimeter shot outside of handling the basketball. Iguodala is a Doug Christie(Without the 3 sadly) Iggy has played at least 3 or 4 years in the league, that's another full 4 year scholarship of college. 2 full college terms and Iggy has yet to improve on this.

That almost TELLS YOU, that Iggy won't improve on it. Louis Williams is only 21, he has a shot at improving on his weaknesses. Thad is 21/22, he has more then a shot given his work ethic to improve on his weaknesses. Iggy is at the stage where your done your development.

jmon · Post #13 » by **jmon** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:59 am

psykosacul wrote:i believe smith has higher trade value for four reasons...
3. situation: any team trading for smith is well aware of the ownership situation and knows that atlanta is not dealing from a power position. - essentially that means you are only bidding against other interested teams... and with so many teams cap strapped this year, its not likely there will be many terrific offers out there. conversely the sixers just signed a star and made a commitment to be good this year... that has to make you think they wont take back junk in return for iggy, but would rather overpay him to remain a "contender"

Wouldn't this make Smith's trade value lower and Iguodala's higher? This means Smith can be had for less and Iguodala can be had for more, right?

Post #14 » by **tk76** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:07 am

? When did 24 become old. Heck, a lot of players Iguodala's age have barely been in the league.

If you don't see Iguodala's huge improvement from when he was a passive offensive player next to CWebb and AI to the payer he is now then I won't try and explain it because we are just seeing different things. Just in this last season alone Iguodala dramatically decreased his turnovers and increased his eFG% by 7% despite taking even more tough shots and drawing the oppositions best defender.

If you don't see Iguodala as being worth the 19th highest salary for a SG or SF (18 made 11.5M+ last year) then we'll just have to disagree.

geiger · Post #15 » by **geiger** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:33 am

Is this honestly being discussed? The question isn't who is the better player - it's who has higher trade value. Is there any question that a 6-9 PF who can play SF and is the leading shot blocker in the NBA while also putting up 17 and 8 at 21 years old is a much more valuable commodity than a 24 year old 6-5 SG/SF who can't shoot from the outside with any consistency and gives you 19, 5, and 5? Hardest thing to find in this league is a shot blocking big man who can also provide offense. The easiest thing to find is an athletic swingman. Iggy a solid NBA player, but he's a dime a dozen talent. Smith is one of the more unique players in the league. There is no question in my mind Smith has the higher trade value.

Post #16 » by **Sixerscan** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:36 am

It's Smith, but with Atlanta's screwed up ownership and the fact that they're, well, the Hawks, makes me doubt they're going to end up on the good side of this situation.

corwin · Post #17 » by **corwin** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:42 am

Geiger has it just right (2 posts back). Wing players who can't shoot should not command max money or anywhere near it unless they are stars. Iguodala is not/does not need to be a star or even the face of this franchise. GS signed the face of their franchise for 6/66 & their center for 6/63 (Dalembert's exact contract for those of you who thought he was so grossly overpaid). Iguodala is worth less & should look at Hamilton, Prince, Caron Butler Gerald Wallace & guys like that for a salary range.

geiger · Post #18 » by **geiger** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:00 pm

And I would take Prince, a young Hamilton and Butler over him without thinking twice about it. Wallace and him are comparable - I'd probably stick with Iggy there. And I would take Kevin Martin over Iggy as well. So 5 and $55 or 6 at $66 would be a steal for him and the fact that he rejected 5 for $57 just shows how badly he overvalues himself.

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #19 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:28 pm

Our fault for over valuing an average point forward that can't shoot.

KrazySixersD · Post #20 » by **KrazySixersD** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:11 pm

I just dont understand this board's hatred of Iguodala. Seems as if so many people feels hes an average player and nothing more... Thats just wrong. People act as if when he shoots he cant even touch rim. Thats just wrong also, he is not a great shooter, but a horrible shooter he is not. He is 24, anyone saying he cant or wont improve is just ridiculous. 20 ppg shooting guards who also can defend well and are only 24 years old are NOT a dime a dozen. Point them out to me if there are so many. Show me another 20 guys who are 24 years old, draw the opposing team's best defender, and average 20, 5, 5. Not to mention his averages have gone up each year. Kevin Martin over Iguodala? I think not. Ill take an athletic 6'6 guy who can do it all including defend anyday. Ill be waiting for that list of 20 players.