Raptors or Sixers.. Who's the stronger/better team?

[Chamilitary Man]

The Raptors

Starters

Jose Calderon
Anthony Parker
Jamario Moon
Chris Bosh
Jermaine O'neal

Bench Notables

Andrea Bargnani, Jason Kapono, Roko Ukic, Kris Humphries, Willie Solomon, Hassan Adams

The Sixers

Starters

Andre Miller
Willie Green
Andrea Igoudala
Elton Brand
Samuel Dalembart

Bench Notables

Louis Williams, Reggie Evans, Thaddeus Young, Marreese Speights


I believe the Raptors will win in the season matchups. Chris Bosh and Jermaine O'neal ABSOLUTELY wins the matchup between Brand and Dalembart. Igoudala is definitly a handful but not unstoppable, and Jamario Moon has had success guarding him last season. Willie Green is very quick and has cause lots of problems for the raptors in the past so I believe the Sixers have a slight advantage at the SG spot. Andre Miller is definitly a very good point guard with great court vision and good defense and penetrating ability, however, Jose Calderon is a borderline All star if not all star and will definitely be one of the elite point guards in the east.The raps win the PG matchup.

Regarding the bench, the raptors have the advantage on paper, but the Sixers bench has proven itself to be very resilient, especially during the Detroit series however, it is very thin especially with the Jason Smith injury. The raptors have the advantage boasting a very deep and talented bench that includes, and first overall pick that has crazzyy potential, the best 3 point shooter or even shooter in the NBA, and a young rookie backup point guard who has proven himself overseas and against tough competition.

What are your thoughts?

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

And Andrea Baragani had a TERRIBLE year as a starter. So things can only hopefully go up as a bench player. But Toronto really didn't have that good a offseason in my boats. The Jermaine O'Neal move by Toronto is oddly similar to our mid season acquitision of Chris Webber. The gamble was one we lost. Will the Raptors lose the same gamble? I believe so. Because O'Neal's recent history string is equal to that of a Torn ACL suffered by Webber. However, you can expect O'Neal's 14/9/2 BPG. Which was not worth giving up an NBA Caliber PG in T.J Ford. It's not like Calderon complained about commitment nor playing time while Ford was there. Whether T.J was there or not, Calderon would've likely resigned.

Since O'Neal's calling card is now defense followed by double digit scoring, one can assume Indiana Rookie C Roy Hibbert would've likely brought forth the defense of a Jermaine O'Neal. And perhaps the double digit scoring as well. In essense, I still believe you spent 18M dollars for a 1M dollar man(Hibbert).

Toronto has always been a solid outside shooting team. But Jermaine O'Neal won't help with the kickout passes, he's either very average or poor at that area. So Chris Bosh still carries the load as the 2nd playmaker. Jamario Moon was a very solid player. Kind of like an In Prime Matt Harping. But nothing to be excited about. Overall, I think you added a very solid C. But you lost salary flexibility and a good point guard in exchange. A Bad Offseason and a likely mediocre season will follow. Sans if you magically win a gamble that is likely to be lost.

We probably won't be starting Willie Green so here's the rotation as of now:

Andre Miller
Andre Iguodala
Thaddeus Young
Elton Brand
Samuel Dalembert.

Philadelphia's calling card was defense last year and this starting lineup has defense written all over it. With the "worst" defender being Andre Miller. Whose defense is just about average/okay for a guard. Teaming up with Iguodala, the andres averaged 3 steals a game. There's no reason not to see such stellar defensive play from our back court continue. That 3 steals a game will be backed up by one of the best defensive front courts in the game in Brand/Daly/Thad. The trio combines for a projected 5 BPG. Between the Blocks and the Steals, Philadelphia could easily pull a Mini Team USA this year and dominate the track meet this season. Between the front and the back court, it will be extremely difficult for any team in the league to score on Philadelphia. Offensively, we were a 100 PT Team and I see no reason for that to continue, even with the loss of 4.9 PPG Jason Smith. Inserting Elton Brand into the lineup means alot more then his 20 PPG. He will open up scoring for alot of our players. Forget open shots. Open driving lanes and Miller and Iggy will have a scoring fest based on that. Sam is a guy that loves to catch around the basket and is an easy duce when found. Elton Brand will have KG like assist numbers this season with Dalembert downlow in the block. Overall, the way I see it playing out is that Toronto's only hope in this series is if they can contain the cohesiveness of the Sixers roster and if they can shoot the ball good enough. Then again, I am biased. I have predicted a 60 win season for this team. The worst I have for us is 54 wins. And I expect it to be a Boston-Philly ECF Smackdown. So you'll probably have to listen to another fan if you want a more optomistic take for your side.

[barkley34]

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=825088&start=0

[eyeatoma]

OP, why don't you search the board for a thread like this which barkley34 has so kindly provided a link for, before starting the argument all over again?

[freshie2]

Probably helps to get the starting lineups right first...switch Iguodala with Green, then put Thad at the 3. That starting 5 goes to Philly. Bench is a tossup.

[King Raptor]

hands down Toronto is better

[tk76]

Hands down more Raptors fans at RealGm.

Both teams about the same caliber. Depends if you want to go with a team over reliant on jumpers, or a team over reliant on creating fast break opportunities who can't shoot. Both are somewhat flawed models, but both teams should be good.

[boshjonesford]

Raptors for sure cause we have for fans (Just kidding we will find out on opening night)

[Gsraider]

Notwithstanding the fact that this is the second go round for this topic, don't two huge issues really stand in the way of really evaluating this? One, we have to assume that Brand is back at 100%, which I think is a pretty fair assessment at this point, particularly after he played the final 8-10 games of last year. Two, can O'Neal find a spark in finally being removed from Indiana and can he finally stay healthy after several years of injuries?

To me, of the two, Brand is the far safer bet at this point, simply by virtue of the way the last few seasons have gone for O'Neal. Not games, but seasons. He may just simply be at a point in his career where the wear and tear on his body has forced him to lose a step and not be the same player he was 3-4 years ago. Unless he returns to being that guy again, this is not really a debate as to who is stronger. If he does return to form, than this debate has merit, but would you head down to Vegas and put your money on O'Neal returning to previous form? Outside of blind faith, what would you base it on?

[eyeatoma]

Hart

[83SixersRocked]

The 76ers, by mid-season at the latest.

Only one game separated them in the standings by the end of the year. The 6ers added Brand and Speights. Thad moves to his natural spot, and I think Louis comes of age this year. His performance against the Pistons in the playoffs was impressive and there's no reason to think that won't carry over into this year.

Toronto has improved some but they just don't scare me. A lot depends on Jermaine, and even best case, I don't think he's enough. Toronto lost TJ while the 76ers have done nothing but add talent, and their young talent still hasn't reached it's ceiling.

[bebopdeluxe]

I think that Raptors fans need to go back to their sandbox and play...

This is the second thread started by Raps fans this offseason. Those guys really need to come up with other things to do in the offseason. I remember them bellyaching for like three RealGM forum pages about an official's call in a SUMMER LEAGUE GAME.

Ummm...OK.

Who cares what we think now? What matters is where the two teams are in mid-April. Even if the Raptors are better right now (which, BTW, I do not think is the case), the question is which team will be better for the next 3-5 years? In my mind, the Sixers definitely have the advantage of young players who still have room to grow...the Raps have Calderon and Moon as guys who still have significant room to grow...guys like Parker and Kapono are basically what they are. Even if we take Iguodala off this list, the Sixers have Thad, Lou and Speights as players who have significant upside from what we will see this season.

Personally, I don't think it's even close...but I will refrain from any smack-talking until the spring. And in the meantime, I think that Raptors fans should go back and start a 15-page thread on their board on how pathetic it is that Joey Graham had to play in Las Vegas.

[IggyTheBEaST]

depends which j.o shows up. If he comes abck to all star form, raptors, otherwise, gimme philly

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

**Sighs** Am I the only one with a bball clue? Jermaine O'Neal will NEVER return to his former self. His collection of injuries is on par with Webber's ACL. And we all remember how that played out for us. "If Brand is at 100 percent." This question gets on my nerves. It would be severely difficult for anyone to come back from an Achilles Tendon Rupture and put up half the same stats he did in such a short time. But he did...

Last year stats:
17 PPG, 9 RPG,1.9(arguably 2) BPG. It's only 3 pts and 1 rebound off of his usual 20 and 10 average. It's not like he sucked when he came back. Actually, he beasted early on posting some nice games in like the 2nd or 3rd game of his comeback.

[freshie2]

Did Webber blow out his ACL here? I thought he had meniscus/arthritic type changes.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

I believe he was coming off of a Torn ACL. Hence why his explosiveness as a player never came back. Once that was gone, Webber lost all desire in basketball. Unlike McNabb, who's seemingly more fundamental then he's ever been and he's looking sharp with the passes.

[bebopdeluxe]

Webber was coming back from microfracture surgery...not a torn ACL.

[LongLiveHinkie]

Both teams were dead equal last year record-wise at 41-41(before someone cuts in, yes the Sixers were 41-41, not 40-42), and the Sixers had a better offseason than the Raptors. The Raptors added O'Neal, who is inferior to Brand to begin with, but they traded for him and gave up their starting PG for him and their 1st rounder.

The Sixers got rid of Carney for Brand, who was a bench player, added Speights, added Rush and Ivey and will add another big man.

and the Sixers were already better than the Raptors last season. Why wouldn't they remain better when they had the better offseason?

[is1531]

I have no fear of the Raptors. They will still try and beat us with trays. If they are not hitting trays they are finished. The Philadelphia 76ers win the title in 2009.

[Adobozz]

76ers should be better. Brand is a much better addition than O'neal.