Pacers/Sixers Parallel?

[Sixersfan87]

I was thinking over who might be a dark horse candidate to grab the 8th seed in the East this year among teams like the Bulls, Heat, Bobcats, and then I realized the Pacers are in remarkably similar situation to the one we were last year. They traded Jermaine O'Neal, the face of their franchise, for a proven point guard, a soon to be expiring contract, and a draft pick. Nobody really expects them to make a serious playoff run outside of their own fans. Sound familiar? TJ Ford is a different style PG than Miller, relying on speed rather than size and saavy, but it's not a stretch to imagine he could emerge as the team's leader much as Miller did last season. His assists numbers are always solid and it seems like he genuinely wants to become a voice in the locker room as well on the court. Next, there have been plenty of comparisions between Iguodala and Granger, both who basically inherited the "Star of the Team" label when AI and JO were traded. They put up similar stats, Iggy's assists are a little better but Granger's shot is a little more reliable. He can also play PF in a pinch. Both have tremendous talent and look to be potential All-Stars this season. Lastly, much as Thad was our x-factor player last, year, I think Brandon Rush could be the same for Indy. Is he going to line up at the 4? No of course not. But he is a player who's main weakness is his lack of selfeshness. He is as proven in terms of team success as an NBA rookie can be. That's a recipe for good team chemistry, which is really what sparked our remarkable second half push last year.I don't think they will be quite as successful as the Sixers were down the stretch, but I do think it's worth keeping an eye on.

[The Guilty Party]

I see some comparisons but there is one, HUGE glaring difference. Jim O'Brien is going to try to win games by out gunning other teams with little focus on defense. When you have an inferior team from a talent perspective, you need to have a solid defense in order to create as many points off of turnovers as possible. I do believe the Pacers will contend for the 8th seed but I think that if you compare what they have now and what the Sixers had, the Sixers will come out being a little stronger in most positions.

Also, having a veteran PG like Miller who knows exactly where everyone should be and getting them there was HUGE for the Sixers. I don't believe TJ Ford will be able to get as much out of his younger teammates as 'Dre was able to do.

[ankle420breaker]

I don't know, I think the Pacers are pretty terrible. The 8th seed is pretty much open for NJ, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, and Indiana.... however I see Indiana being inferior to most of that group. They really have no inside presence and just a lack of overall talent to make a playoff push. They have some youth, but they'll most likely be lottery bound for the foreseeable future.

[dbodner]

I see some comparisons but there is one, HUGE glaring difference. Jim O'Brien is going to try to win games by out gunning other teams with little focus on defense.

Jim O'Brien's actually a defensive oriented coach. I didn't necessarily agree with his tactics, but his focus is generally on defense, and his offensive philosophy is about as simple as take the first open shot you get.

[The Guilty Party]

Wait.... he was??? I must be all confused because all I seem to recall was our team jacking up a ridiculous amount of 3s that year. Well, I remember that and my head bleeding from scratching my head at his rotations.

If you say he was/is.... I'll take your word for it and take back that statement.

[ankle420breaker]

O'Brien's defensive system was vulnerable to perimeter shooters. I recall him saying that we didn't have the foot speed to make rotations to cover the 3 point line.... mind you this lack of foot speed came from the likes of Iverson, Iguodala, Green, Korver, and Salmons... not the slowest bunch.

[barkley34]

O'Brien's defensive system was vulnerable to perimeter shooters. I recall him saying that we didn't have the foot speed to make rotations to cover the 3 point line.... mind you this lack of foot speed came from the likes of Iverson, Iguodala, Green, Korver, and Salmons... not the slowest bunch.

He was probably talking about Webber who didn't have the speed to defend good shooting power forwards on the perimeter. Do you remember that game Toronto went small and put Donyell Marshall at the 4? He made like 11 threes that game because Webber couldn't close out on him.

I agree with Dabods he is a defense oriented coach, that is how he won in Boston. We weren't going to be a good defensive team here with Webber and Iverson. Of course there is no structure to his playground style offense. I could see Indy grabbing the 8th seed, they weren't that bad last season I know they spanked us in a game late in the year.

[geiger]

O'Brien always has been a defensive oriented coach, criticized for his lack of an offensive philosophy outside of jacking up a lot of 3 pointers. Sixers played good defense under him with inferior defensive players, until Webber got here, when even O'Brien couldn't get them to play solid defense. He's no defensive genius, but he does focus on defense a lot. However, the Pacers need a lot of help as the team stands. They don't have great defensive personnel, they have some key players with really serious injury concerns, and they have almost no post scoring or shot blocking to speak of. But I don't think it's all that unfair to compare them to last season's Sixer team - if they play hard, play together, if their young players play better than expected, I can see them winning 40 games and possibly sneaking into the playoffs as an 8 seat. The problem as I see it is that a lot of teams in our conference got better from last season and I have a feeling that only teams with winning records will be able to get into the playoffs this season. It might take 45 wins to get in this year and I can't see the Pacers winning more than 41 games - and if O'Brien gets them to 41, he should be up for consideration for coach of the year.

[The Guilty Party]

The Pacers gave up 105.4 PPG on 45.37% shooting last season. Granted the PPG is going to be high (5th worst in the league next to Golden State, Denver, Memphis, and Seattle) because of O'Brien's quick approach to getting a shot up on the offensive end but I just don't think that a team with inferior talent can win that way. I think the key to winning with lesser talent is to slow the game down and reduce the amount of points that your team needs to score.

By comparison, the Sixers put themselves in lower scoring games last season by allowing only 96.2 PPG. By playing that way, the Sixers enabled themselves to be in games when their shots weren't falling hence giving them a chance. Does anyone figure Indiana to be an offensive powerhouse this season? If not, then I think O'Brien needs to limit the number of possessions the other team has.

I'm not saying the Pacers will be bad but what I'm saying is that I don't believe there is that much of a comparison between the Pacers of this year and the Sixers of last season because the style of play is radically different.

[Skates]

I always felt that O'Brien's offensive and defensive schemes were too gimmicky for sustained success in the NBA. He is still living to a large extent on his post-Pittino success in Boston which was more of an Fu to Pittino than anything else.

As far as the comparison between the Pacers and the Sixers I think we have to take a wait and see approach. A lot of teams have gone through the dump a superstar cycle with very different levels of success. One thing the Pacers still need to do is to move the crappy attitude players out of town. With the Sixers that occurred simultaneously with moving their superstar (Iverson) and has-been superstar (Webber). The Pacers still need to address moving Shawne Willams and Tinsley to truly start down the path of redemption and rebuilding that the Sixers followed. Once that is done the easy part is over, after all BK was able to do that part. The quick rebuilding and restocking of the roster is more difficult, and in the case of the Pacers, more tenuous given Ford's injury history.

[The Guilty Party]

Another huge difference between the franchises is that the Pacers have been more or less without O'Neal for years. While Iverson missed some games in a Sixers' uni, that number doesn't compare to O'Neal's number of games missed whether it be to injury or suspension.

Here's a breakdown of his games missed:
07-08: 39
06-07: 13
05-06: 31
04-05: 38

I think that franchise will have an easier time of moving on from O'Neal because they've more or less had to already do so a number of times. In fact, this season they won't have to scramble when O'Neal goes down and that might actually help them stay focused.

[jmon]

There are some serious parallels in style and/or situation.

Ford, Miller - pissed traded players
Granger, Iguodala - youngsters
Foster, Evans - rebounding
Rush, Thad - rooks picked around the same spot
Jack, Lou Williams - good young Gs
Carney, Shawne - doghouse underachieving athletes

I don't see a Dalembert though, who is pretty important. They do have a Dunleavy though, who is a completely different player but similar caliber. As skates pointed out, Ford will likely be injured and miss time, which isn't going to help. I honestly didn't realize that the Pacers could make the playoffs until I read this post. I had them finishing like 14, not more like 10. Rasho is a solid back up as well if they still have him.

[chrice]

JOB was definitely defense oriented, his head is just in the wrong place. He tried to make players cover the entire floor, and play everything at full speed. His scheme gives prevent defense a good name.