switch iggy to the three and thad to the 2

sweetlou23 · Post #1 » by **sweetlou23** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 1:28 am

I think that thad has the range to and the quickness to play the two. Iggy would be back at his natural position. Lou should be first man off the bench and sub for miller at the point.

76ciology · Post #2 » by **76ciology** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 1:38 am

ahmm.. I think we're sort of doing that right now. Iggy is playing the Scottie Pippen role. While Thad is running through screens and hitting spot up jumpers from the outside.

sweetlou23 · Post #3 » by **sweetlou23** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 1:50 am

Cool. how much time are lou and thad spending on the court together? I see lous minutes are way down.

Post #4 » by **dbodner** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 2:20 am

I never understand this.

If you "move" Iggy to the 3 and Thad to the 2, what does it accomplish?

If Thad is "at the 2", and Iggy is moved to the 3, and Elton Brand's double teamed, how is the outcome different? do we not still have the same 2 players on the court?

barkley34 · Post #5 » by **barkley34** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 3:17 am

I think the only move we could make to the starting lineup would be to go small. Move Thad to the 4 like last season which should help our fastbreak, move Elton to the 5 and Sam to the bench. Put Rush in at the 2 for spacing and shooting. This also lets Iggy go back to playing the 3 again.

Miller
Rush
Iggy
Thad
Brand

The negatives? Daly would complain, no way he would accept a bench role. We would also probably get hurt on the boards. I am not saying we should do this but it probably is the only starting lineup move we could make if we get desperate. Best case scenario would be to keep the starting lineup as it is right now and hope Iggy starts knocking down some jumpers. Against bigger teams Daly would still have to start.

Post #6 » by **tk76** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 4:03 am

I doubt we change the starters, but I expect to see more small ball with Brand at center.

bebopdeluxe · Post #7 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 4:11 am

barkley:

If you're ready to do that, I am ready to say "bah-bye" to Sam...at least now, he is earning close to his salary, which makes it easier to move him. Call me crazy, but I would just go with Speights, Theo and Brand at the 5...and if we could use Sammy to find a PG, all the better.

PhillyRocks1 · Post #8 » by **PhillyRocks1** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 11:44 am

I'd start Green at SG and bring Thad in as the 6th man. People hate on Green but he was decent last year. When the guy's shooting is on he is pretty good for 18-20 min a game. It's not like he isn't hitting 55% of his shots.

eyeatoma · Post #9 » by **eyeatoma** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 12:14 pm

^^^^Um??? your best player off the bench? We're not the spurs dude. And willie green isn't good enough to play starter minutes. He has actually been more effective as a 6th man, if you haven't noticed. What needs to change is Andre Miller as the PG, and Mo Cheeks as coach...

Don't move Thad from the starting lineup. He's the only player keeping us from being blown out by 40 pts per game.

emptygator · Post #10 » by **emptygator** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 4:52 pm

As i've been watching all the games so far...i agree that miller is not going to fit with this team if the offense is run through brand. So far Brand gets the ball in the paint...he's doubled...and then he looks for the open man either slashing or on the perimeter. The only problem is that if it is millers man who doubles miller doesn't have the quickness to slash the lane nor the ability to hit the open outside shot. So far Thad is the only one who has shown the capability of knocking down the open outside shot or having the speed to slash. I feel that Iguodala will eventually be able to do the same things thad has accomplished so far if the offense becomes more organized.

With that said I basically have come to the consensus that this team would be instantly better if Lou Will was the point guard starting the game:
Reason 1: He is our best offensive player whether you like it or not
Reason 2: Lou doesn't need to be as crafty as Miller if he is constantly feeding the ball to Brand on the Block
Reason 3: The pick and pop that Brand is so successful at in Lac will be revived with a point guard who can shoot from anywhere (and off either foot if necessary)
Reason 4: Lou Will's jumper is pretty much on the money every time he shoots, right now he comes off the bench and just barely rims his shots. I think that if he started he would be able to nail more shots consistently since he would be able to get in to a rhythm more easily.

sec-106 · Post #11 » by **sec-106** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 5:12 pm

eyeatoma wrote:

willie green isn't good enough to play starter minutes.

Don't move Thad from the starting lineup.

Post #12 » by **tk76** » Sun Nov 9, 2008 7:41 pm

Gator- I do tink this team has to try and run Lou as a PG for a while. But I don't agree that he has looked all that good out their. In fact, I feellike Lou has played only as a SG and not really tried to be a PG since the middle of last season.

That doesn't mean that Lou can't be the answer at PG for this team- but his role will have to change from his current score first mentality. When I start hearing Lou talking more about distributing then it might mean the team is looking at changing his role more back to a scoring pg instead of a tiny SG.

9th Wonder · Post #13 » by **9th Wonder** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:24 pm

As it stands, a new starting PG will have to come via trade, as I don't like the prospect of Lou as our starting PG; he hardly passes the ball anymore.

cavsfan_osiris · Post #14 » by **cavsfan_osiris** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:20 pm

Who plays the 2 or 3 is semantics.

Post #15 » by **dbodner** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:37 pm

cavsfan_osiris wrote:Who plays the 2 or 3 is semantics.

Agreed. It's about the combination of players and how their skillsets fit together, not what the letters are listed as on the box score.

Skates · Post #16 » by **Skates** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:53 pm

I have seen Iggy and Thad guarding the 2 and 3 on other teams interchangeably. I have also seen the same thing with Brand and Dalembert at the 4 and 5. Don't even worry about where they are playing on offense, because it appears that at least 4 out of 5 guys on the court are in the wrong place offensively at all times they have the ball.

Miller is a poor fit with Brand for sure, but I don't see any PG's out there in trade possibilities that are real sure things, or even half sure things. With an offense focused, as it should be, on the pick and pop on one side of the floor between Brand and a PG and Thad shooting and slashing from the other side, I don't think this team needs a "pure" point guard like Miller. Plus with Iggy a lot of the half-court offense can be initiated by him (just need a guard to bring the ball up, Iggy should not do that routinely). Hence I join Gator in advocating for using Lou as the starting PG and trading Miller for a shooter off the bench. In the starting line-up Lou would have more passing options and could have his decision making simplified by having him primarily play in the pick and pop with Brand, he has been a willing passer in the past and I don't think he is a selfish player. He has a much better shot and quickness than Miller, perfect to play off of Brand. Iggy can handle the ball out top or drop into the post. Thad can keep doing what he is doing. Sam should spend a lot of time setting screens and picks and possibly cuting to the hoop in rotation with Thad and Iggy.

The second team could be run by Ivey with a shooter acquired for Miller and Speights, Reggie and Rush mixed and matched. I have never before been a big advocate of Lou or Iggy as pure PG's, but I think in the right system, which fits our current personnel, they can share the PG duties very efficently. Next season we draft another PG and get a good shooting big back in Jason Smith (he would look good in this offense right now). What happens to Sammy is still a mystery to me, but he does not have the skills or basketball IQ to play kalf-court offense at a high level.

geiger · Post #17 » by **geiger** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:02 pm

Not sure what Lou has done to encourage this optimism. He's been nothing short of abysmal so far this season as far as getting his teammates involved and we play 4 on 5 on the defensive end when he's in the game. He more than anyone has had a bad start to the season. Not that he can't rebound from it, but right now, to think he can feed the post and run a pick and roll is a stretch.

Skates · Post #18 » by **Skates** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:31 pm

geiger wrote:Not sure what Lou has done to encourage this optimism. He's been nothing short of abysmal so far this season as far as getting his teammates involved and we play 4 on 5 on the defensive end when he's in the game. He more than anyone has had a bad start to the season. Not that he can't rebound from it, but right now, to think he can feed the post and run a pick and roll is a stretch.

Other than Thad aand to some extent Brand, they have all played pretty badly. I have always been in the Lou as off-guard camp, but given the current personnel I think he may be a better fit with Brand than Miller, plus I see few trade options out there, truthfully the PG scene around the NBA looks like a MASH unit right now. Lou has not been a complete gunner in past years, but the second team right now does not have many scoring options, especially off the pass, the best second unit scorer other than Lou is WG who is not a catch and shoot type since he prefers to handle before shooting. I simply think Lou's skills are a better fit than Miller's are with Brand and that Iggy can complement Williams with his passing ability, plus Lou would have more scorers around him in the starting line-up so he would not be forced to take as many difficult shots as he is taking now. We can't get rid of every player that seems ot be a poor fit for their current position/role, hence I am simply trying to find a better fit for most of our personnel.

Post #19 » by **tk76** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:00 pm

If Brand and Lou could learn to run the Pick and Pop I think they could be a devistating combination. If anything, I think letting Lou drive to the hole would be more dangerous than leaving Brand open at 15 feet. If Lou gets a free pass to the rim he can finish or pass of to Sam for a dunk(who's defender would be the only one who can stop Lou finishing for a layup.) This would give Sam a role in the offense, instead of having him stand lost at the top of the key 9and itching to shoot that ugly J of his.)

If both defenders close out hard on Lou to cut off the lane, then that leaves Brand wide open to shoot or pass. Eitherway the play is successfull.

Right now Miller and Iguodala lack Lou's driving ability, and would be less effective on a pick and pop with Brand. Even worse, Miller and Iguodala don't require the offense to be honest, and can't reliably hit the 17 foot jumper if both defenders sag off and just protect the lane.

The problem is (as Gieger has intimated) that Lou lacks the PG instincts to run the pick and pop, let alone run the offense. I'm optomistic that with practice Brand and Lou could learn to run the Pick and Pop (it really only has easy decisions for Lou- shoot or Drive if open, pass off if you draw a defender.) I do have serioous doubts he can learn to run a team- especially in Mo's unstructured sets. The same for Iguodala. This team needs a set system or a good PG or both to be effective. I have not lost faith completely with Miller, but he has to show something.

I am really surprised Mo didn't go to the high post pick and pop from day one- given that has been Brand's game for years.

AnSweR07 · Post #20 » by **AnSweR07** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:04 pm

tk76 wrote:If Brand and Lou could learn to run the Pick and Pop I think they could be a devistating combination. If anything, I think letting Lou drive to the hole would be more dangerous than leaving Brand open at 15 feet. If Lou gets a free pass to the rim he can finish or pass of to Sam for a dunk(who's defender would be the only one who can stop Lou finishing for a layup.) This would give Sam a role in the offense, instead of having him stand lost at the top of the key 9and itching to shoot that ugly J of his.)

If both defenders close out hard on Lou to cut off the lane, then that leaves Brand wide open to shoot or pass. Eitherway the play is successfull.

Right now Miller and Iguodala lack Lou's driving ability, and would be less effective on a pick and pop with Brand. Even worse, Miller and Iguodala don't require the offense to be honest, and can't reliably hit the 17 foot jumper if both defenders sag off and just protect the lane.

The problem is (as Gieger has intimated) that Lou lacks the PG instincts to run the pick and pop, let alone run the offense. I'm optomistic that with practice Brand and Lou could learn to run the Pick and Pop (it really only has easy decisions for Lou- shoot or Drive if open, pass off if you draw a defender.) I do have serioous doubts he can learn to run a team- especially in Mo's unstructured sets. The same for Iguodala. This team needs a set system or a good PG or both to be effective. I have not lost faith completely with Miller, but he has to show something.

I am really surprised Mo didn't go to the high post pick and pop from day one- given that has been Brand's game for years.

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head. Lou and Brand pick and roll/pop all day.