Which is the best League??

[El Turco]

re: Pele; the fact that he never played European football is a knock against him but you want to remember at that time Brazilian players rarely left their country for Europe unlike today. players like Pele, Garrincha, Zico, Rivelino, Didi, Gerson etc either never left Brazil or spent vast majority of their careers in their own country. so all in all, Brazilian league was probably a top-5 league in the world.

re: Best; he had an amazing raw talent for sure but i think he is little too romanticized by the fact that he was the British celebrity player and was the best player of the first English club to win European Cup. if he had the same career and production while playing for let's say Bayern Munich, we would not be hearing his name in all-time discussions nearly as much me thinks. he probably deserves to be in top-10 just from raw talent aspect but i would understand if somebody doesn't put him there.

[Smoove]

though i don't know how being tall has anything to do with anything. most of the best offensive forces in history and in modern football has been 6 ft or shorter i.e Ronaldo, Baggio, Maradona, Pele, Muller, Romario, Weah etc. height is important for some aerial prowess but at the end football largely played with feet.

No no, I'm just giving you a outlook on something that 50's and 60's didn't have that is tall strikers that can do what a little striker can do with his feet, but then the tall strikers have a great advantage on corners and crosses which is really great to have a tall footballer for that.

And I know for a fact they would be impressed and confused at the same time for our the tall strikers can do magic with their feet.

[El Turco]

does that aerial advantage make up the difference between the players in discussion that can create more "magic"?imo, it does not. and it is not like there weren't tall strikers back then.

[bargs]

lol at discussing maradona amongst a bunch of players...come on, maradona is the soccer, whoever you compare him to should be considered a "crime".

nobody can be compared with maradona...pele neither.

[treiz]

re: Pele; the fact that he never played European football is a knock against him but you want to remember at that time Brazilian players rarely left their country for Europe unlike today. players like Pele, Garrincha, Zico, Rivelino, Didi, Gerson etc either never left Brazil or spent vast majority of their careers in their own country. so all in all, Brazilian league was probably a top-5 league in the world.

re: Best; he had an amazing raw talent for sure but i think he is little too romanticized by the fact that he was the British celebrity player and was the best player of the first English club to win European Cup. if he had the same career and production while playing for let's say Bayern Munich, we would not be hearing his name in all-time discussions nearly as much me thinks. he probably deserves to be in top-10 just from raw talent aspect but i would understand if somebody doesn't put him there.

Pele:
But the thing is, it PROBABLY was a top-5 league, and even if it was wouldn't we talking about it now? I think the thing about the Brazilian league is, is that they produced so many quality players, but we all know that doesn't necessarily mean they're the best league.

Best:
I agree with you there, I think there is a bit of biased from me there just because he was the first player I was mesmerized by, although I'm not old enough to ever see him live, when I did see him I was completely blown away at just how freakin' awesome he was and what could've been, it's a shame though. I believe he could've been successful at another team, but that's just my 2 cents

[El Turco]

the reason i said probably because there is no way to measure to strength of leagues in two continents. only reason we today assume European leagues are better than South American leagues is the fact that best South Americans play in Europe, that wasn't the case back then.

[treiz]

I understand that, the fact that back then the best national team was Brazil and they all played in the Brazilian League, which is why I do sort of agree with what you said, but however, the lack of European success which is worst case scenario 4 of the top 5 leagues in the world back then kind of make me value other players ahead of him. Also, if you can say that whether Best can produce in another club like Munich, couldn't the same be said about Pele?

[El Turco]

oh i have no doubts Best could duplicate his production in England in other top leagues but that wasn't my point. the problem is his production was while very good, wasn't exactly makings of a GOAT candidate and there are external factors that puts him in that discussion. as for Pele, no way to speculate what his production would be in Europe but he would have been among the top players imo.

[treiz]

^See if you take external factors and use them against Best, then the same could be said for Maradona. The thing is I actually do believe that there is a strong bias necause I'm from England, but if things can be said about Best can't they be said about other players as well? Also as for Pele, I have no doubt that he would have tore up whatever league he played in, but the fact of the matter is he didn't, and to me that holds him back.

[Profanity]

There was a really interesting documentation on english fans flying to Germany to watch second divison games in St.Pauli or something. The flight, hotel, tickets and other stuff combined is cheaper than watching ManU in Old Trafford and, as they put it, they'll see "real men play real soccer" here.

I might be pretty biased, but I really like the Bundesliga. The 50+1 rule is still in place, preventing the influence of big money investors. The clubs are still owned by the fans, which have voice in league decisions. Tickets are still relatively cheap, stadiums are full, the games haven't become "events" like in England.
German teams have been rather free from scandals and irresponsible behavior and with a few exceptions, have never spent money like drunken sailors out in town. All this makes the Bundesliga (and the League 1, to a certain degree) really likable... at least to me.

From a talent point of view, the Premiere League is obviously the best in Europe, but that mostly due to the big four. After that, I don't see a big gap to other teams. I don't know the spanish or italian leagues, but I'd say that the teams ranked 8th - 18th in the Bundesliga are on par with the Premiere League, while spending way less money. German teams have always done well in the InterToto and UEFA Cups, which kinda supports that statement.

Due to that, the Bundesliga is very weak at the top. There's no team next to the Bayern, and even they can't really compete with the powerhouses of Spain or England. The Champions League is kinda boring, but makes a exciting domestic league. We have seen seven different Meister in the Bundesliga (I'm counting Leverkusen and Schalke... hey Meister der Herzen is also a title. 5 if you're nitpicking) in this decade, which is a greater variety than any other league in Europe can offer.

So in conclusion, the Bundesliga is a nice league to follow if you don't care for big names and spectacular transfers. It's really, really boring from the glamour perspective, with rock solid, honest, hardworking down to the earth clubs. And 95% (I'd guess) of the German fans like it that way... when David Beckham was about to get transfered to Madrid, the Bayern Boss was asked why they hadn't get into the talks. His answer: We want soccer players, not Spice Girls Husbands here.

a) Barça and Real Madrid are also owned by their fans.

b) Well if you don't care about big names, don't care about big games, don't care about boredon, don't care about if those 22 men on the pitch wouldn't be better suited to hammer an anvil (in an efficient and effortless way i'd concede) or don't care about being trahed 4-0 at Camp Nou, you're right, Bundesliga is a nice league to follow. Problem is that 95% of the "others" fans, -the rest of the world not less-, care about it.

[kromoszoma]

a) Barça and Real Madrid are also owned by their fans.

b) Well if you don't care about big names, don't care about big games, don't care about boredon, don't care about if those 22 men on the pitch wouldn't be better suited to hammer an anvil (in an efficient and effortless way i'd concede) or don't care about being trahed 4-0 at Camp Nou, you're right, Bundesliga is a nice league to follow. Problem is that 95% of the "others" fans, -the rest of the world not less-, care about it.

I sure hope now that some German team knocks out Barcelona this year to teach you a little humility.
I'm an Arsenal fan, they are a good team, I know Barcelona is much better, but I wouldn't watch them even if they scored ten goals a game. I just don't care about them, as I don't care about any Italian, German, French or whatever team. I know loads of people who don't even watch any games except Hungarian ones, and our football players are really crap, as opposed to the ones in the Bundesliga.

[GDS20]

lol at discussing maradona amongst a bunch of players...come on, maradona is the soccer, whoever you compare him to should be considered a "crime".

nobody can be compared with maradona...pele neither.

You're a Napoli supporter that explains it, But Pele is god of football