beat barca with their own tactics?

[fatlever]

something i was thinking about the other day falling asleep watching barca lose to ac milan... barca had their usual 70+% possession as they played keep away in the midfield, but lost in similar fashion to the chelsea loss last year. chelsea put out the blueprint for how to beat them - compact, defend, give barca possession until final 3rd, get physical, target striker, hit on counter - but i want to see someone beat barca w/out having to concede possession for once.

so what combination of players could you put together using non-spanish players or players not playing in la liga (so no real madrid players, no mata or silva, no falcao etc...) to beat barca AND have more than 50% possession against them while doing it?

you would have to have great passing, technically gifted midfielders that could string together passes under pressure as well as have the energy to chase down barca and win the ball back as soon as its lost. you would need speedy technical defenders who can play a high line and play the ball from the back and a classic finisher who would capitalize on every chance in front of the goal.

who would be your staring XI? (assume you can send your XI back in time long enough to build chemistry needed to play this style).

using bayerns starting XI as a starting point probably isnt a bad idea since they are arguably the 2nd best team right now and also usually very good with possesion, but even that team would have to be tweaked to win the possession battle vs barca.

the top 10 teams in possession in 2012
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1122 ... possession

1. barca
2. bayern
3. juventus

go....

[Slava]

Chelsea did not invent the counter attacking theme to beat Barca, Mourinho did that with Inter. Those games were ugly but the Chelsea win gets magnified because they genuinely had no reason to win that tie based on talent.

[fatlever]

im thinking something like

--------------------------------cech----------------------------
lahm-----------tiago silva------------luiz--------------alaba
------------------------pirlo---------toure--------------------
robben-----------------hazard-----------------------ribery
--------------------------van persie---------------------------

schweinsteiger could certainly make that midfield.
luiz isnt the best defender in the world, but he's one of the best and playing out of the back and building the attack. also good playing a high line.
i went with cech but im sure there are top 10 keepers that are even better playing from the back, although cech is usually pretty reliable with his feet.
too much respect for robben, ribery and hazard? who else would you put in those spots who can attack as well as hold position, string passes and defend the wings?
van persie is about automatic in front of the net that you can find.

[IronChef]

-----------RvP------
Ribery--Kroos--Muller
----Wilshere--Pirlo----
Baines-Chiellini-Silva-Lahm
-------------Reina-------

Certainly tricky, picked Reina just for his distribution, but he has gone slightly insane. Vorm's good for that, too. There's probably someone who's better though

[5DOM]

Chelsea did not invent the counter attacking theme to beat Barca, Mourinho did that with Inter. Those games were ugly but the Chelsea win gets magnified because they genuinely had no reason to win that tie based on talent.

Well you can then go back to 09 when we had more better chances than Barca despite not having much possession. That said, neither Chelsea nor Inter "invented" counter attacking strategy. They just had more success with it because of the personnel.

As for beating Barca with tiki-taka style, I think it's pretty much impossible considering not only the talent that they have but also their familiarity with it. So many of their players have come through La Masia and/or have been playing with each other for a loooong time.

[5DOM]

-----------RvP------
Ribery--Kroos--Muller
----Wilshere--Pirlo----
Baines-Chiellini-Silva-Lahm
-------------Reina-------

Certainly tricky

Reina's a good choice if you want a keeper who can out-Valdes Valdes. If I am trying to win the match though, he wouldn't be my choice.

[fatlever]

Chelsea did not invent the counter attacking theme to beat Barca, Mourinho did that with Inter. Those games were ugly but the Chelsea win gets magnified because they genuinely had no reason to win that tie based on talent.

not just talking about chelsea vs barca last year. chelsea also had success vs barca when mourinho was there. chelsea has had decent success against barca for the past 8 years or so, including 2009 when they almost knocked barca out of the semis except for the ridiculous officiating, granted that was under guus, but style playing with mou's players and his style for the most part. mourinho brought that counter attacking style from chelsea to inter. of course barca wasnt the possession beast in 2006-2007 that they are now.

regardless....

[Slava]

Chelsea did not invent the counter attacking theme to beat Barca, Mourinho did that with Inter. Those games were ugly but the Chelsea win gets magnified because they genuinely had no reason to win that tie based on talent.

Well you can then go back to 09 when we had more better chances than Barca despite not having much possession. That said, neither Chelsea nor Inter "invented" counter attacking strategy. They just had more success with it because of the personnel.

As for beating Barca with tiki-taka style, I think it's pretty much impossible considering not only the talent that they have but also their familiarity with it. So many of their players have come through La Masia and/or have been playing with each other for a loooong time.

Yeah inventing is likely the wrong term there but Mourinho did take it to the extreme by playing his strikers close to his own penalty area like he did at Inter. Most counter attacking teams still tried to keep a shape and move the ball forward conventionally but Mourinho's approach was totally unconventional.

[IronChef]

-----------RvP------
Ribery--Kroos--Muller
----Wilshere--Pirlo----
Baines-Chiellini-Silva-Lahm
-------------Reina-------

Certainly tricky

Reina's a good choice if you want a keeper who can out-Valdes Valdes. If I am trying to win the match though, he wouldn't be my choice.

Yeah, I edited my post thinking about that. Trying to think of a better keeper with good distribution. Certianly not Szcesney, his goal kicks are out for a throw 60% of the time.

Edit: Cech is a good shout, don't know how he slipped my mind

[fatlever]

As for beating Barca with tiki-taka style, I think it's pretty much impossible considering not only the talent that they have but also their familiarity with it. So many of their players have come through La Masia and/or have been playing with each other for a loooong time.

thats why you get to use the time machine

[5DOM]

I would probably pick De Gea because he's a great shot-stopper and can distribute. No need to worry about crosses either.

[fatlever]

I would probably pick De Gea because he's a great shot-stopper and can distribute. No need to worry about crosses either.

he's spanish

[Slava]

All PL line up:

---------De Gea----------

Rafael--Ferdinand--Agger--Cole

--Yaya--Carrick--Wilshere--

--Silva-------------Mata--
-----------RVP-------------------

[fatlever]

no bale seems unfair, but then again, as awesome as bale has been this year, he likes to run at people and needs to play in space, not exactly the type you would use to hold possession and ping the ball around. but damn, seems every team could use a bale running down the flanks scaring the piss out of the fullbacks.

[IronChef]

I doubt many teams would say no, but if you're going for the possession game I'd probably go with Mata, Silva, Hazard, or Cazorla. Three of those are spanish though. Nasri maybe

[5DOM]

It's hard enough to beat Barca without Barca players, but without Spanish players?

[J-Mezzy]

It's amazing how good Barcelona is, and at the same time, how easily you can game plan against them. Inter, Chelsea, and now Milan have shown the blueprint to beat them. You can't really game plan that easily against a team like Bayern or even Man U even though Barcelona is every bit as good or better than those teams.

The question is, when will national teams start doing the same to Spain. Spain is just like Barcelona minus the world's best player (or second for the CR7 supporters).

[Blank_Name]

It's hard enough to beat Barca without Barca players, but without Spanish players?

Take some Italians. They might not be as explosive off the dribble but they are just as good ball control

[cgf]

I'm pretty sure Bayern would do it. The Javi-Schweini-Kroos midfield trio is out playing Barca's Busquets-Xavi-Cesc trio this year, and Bayern have the much better defense. Replace Mandzukic with RVP, Rooney or Aguero, and there you go.

[IronChef]

It's a pretty killer midfield. Javi's great but you can't use him in this game cause he's Spanish, hence why I switched him for Pirlo, and went with Wilshere cause he's awesome. Kroos is fantastic, he's what Ramsey should have become (or will become? )