Most important position?

[bbms]

IMO, full-back is the easiest position to play.

I don't agree. How many full backs in the world can actually defend the position properly? It's incredibly hard to defend at this position, believe me. The easiest imo is CB. If you are tall, fairly good at tackling and always well positioned, no coach will ever sack you out.

Nah, CB is one of the most difficult positions in football. First you need to find tall players, then that tall player should also have some size. These are the physical requirements.

Tall players are usually slow, but forwards are usually quick and pacey players. That points to another requirement. Especially in a defensive line with 4 players, slow center-backs can cause lots of problems. If you have slow central defenders you need to play with a deep defensive line and you should have a really good defensive midfielder. And playing with a deep defensive line can cause problems : 1) stretches the distance between your defenders & midfielders 2) and implicitly stretches the distance between midfielders & forwards. Those two mean a lot of space for opposition team to play with the ball, and in turn you need to run more and spend more energy to cover that distance. And in attack mode you need pacey forwards and wingers in those kind of game... A good CB should really have some speed, or you will have lots of head-aches .

CB's should be really good at positioning and that needs experience, fundametals and good instincts. You should have some Football IQ to play as a CB.

In todays football, (especially teams trying to play total football, Barcelona, Bayern, Netherlands NT...), there is a need for ball playing CB's. There is a reason Guardiola used Mascherano as a centre-back in Barcelona.

As a result there are alot of requirements to be a successful CB. It is not an easy position to play.

In turn, to be a succesful full-back you need to be quick, careful and good at crossing the ball. Some tackling & positioning ability is needed as well. This is a rather minimal feature-set compared to other positions. That is why I think playing as a FB is easier.

Than we'll never agree. It's pretty **** hard to defend the play from the opposite side, as a fullback. You won't believe how hard it is to defend your back. And here you are, in modern football, where nobody plays two-strikers set anymore (unless you are 4-4-2), and every **** formation looks closer and closer to 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. Do you know why people play this kind of formations? Because it's hard as hell to defend as a FB. Much more harder than the CB position, believe me.

Once upon a time, when people actually went for the line to make a cross, and there wasn't 6'2 wingers to complete crosses, it was the opposite. FB was easier to defend, and CB was harder(FB used to take the winger by front, and CBs faced crosses from the back), but in today's football? Every winger wants to play diagonals, cut inside and score, almost no FBs are allowed to attack the line anymore so lots of crosses coming from early in the pitch: the CB see the cross coming from the front, than it's easier to clear.

[IronChef]

Those two positions are absolutely different.

In 3-5-2 ; sweepers clear the ball & forwards if they pass beyond central defenders. A defensive midfielder prevents those kind of attacks from happening. I mean it is like a preemptive strike. Rather than struggling against the threat, you take precautions agains that threat. A risky way but proved to be better...

Patrick Vieira is the man I think as an ideal defensive midfielder. Maybe that makes the things more clear.

Vieira and Keane played more like box to box players. They were more central mids in my opinion. When I think of defensive mid, its players like Gattuso, Makelele, Mascherano, Mikel, Ince, to some extent Busquets that come to mind, players who shield the back 4 and effectively play to nullify the opposition's #10 and at the same time would not be of much use further forward.

This is in itself a very specialized role that you cannot list as being the most difficult position to play in football.

I do not think Keane and Vieira played as b2b players. Especially Vieira... Lampard, Gerrard, Xavi, Fabregas, Ballack, Essien, Selcuk Inan, Vidal, Pogba, Ilkay Gundogan can be considered as box to box midfielders. Vieira was an ideal defensive midfielder.

I would definitely call Vieira a box to box. Gilberto was the defensive mid shielding the back four. Vieira was free to get forward as he wanted.



Sent from my GT-S7560M using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Javanar]

I don't agree. How many full backs in the world can actually defend the position properly? It's incredibly hard to defend at this position, believe me. The easiest imo is CB. If you are tall, fairly good at tackling and always well positioned, no coach will ever sack you out.

Nah, CB is one of the most difficult positions in football. First you need to find tall players, then that tall player should also have some size. These are the physical requirements.

Tall players are usually slow, but forwards are usually quick and pacey players. That points to another requirement. Especially in a defensive line with 4 players, slow center-backs can cause lots of problems. If you have slow central defenders you need to play with a deep defensive line and you should have a really good defensive midfielder. And playing with a deep defensive line can cause problems : 1) stretches the distance between your defenders & midfielders 2) and implicitly stretches the distance between midfielders & forwards. Those two mean a lot of space for opposition team to play with the ball, and in turn you need to run more and spend more energy to cover that distance. And in attack mode you need pacey forwards and wingers in those kind of game... A good CB should really have some speed, or you will have lots of head-aches .

CB's should be really good at positioning and that needs experience, fundametals and good instincts. You should have some Football IQ to play as a CB.

In todays football, (especially teams trying to play total football, Barcelona, Bayern, Netherlands NT...), there is a need for ball playing CB's. There is a reason Guardiola used Mascherano as a centre-back in Barcelona.

As a result there are alot of requirements to be a successful CB. It is not an easy position to play.

In turn, to be a succesful full-back you need to be quick, careful and good at crossing the ball. Some tackling & positioning ability is needed as well. This is a rather minimal feature-set compared to other positions. That is why I think playing as a FB is easier.

Than we'll never agree. It's pretty **** hard to defend the play from the opposite side, as a fullback. You won't believe how hard it is to defend your back. And here you are, in modern football, where nobody plays two-strikers set anymore (unless you are 4-4-2), and every **** formation looks closer and closer to 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. Do you know why people play this kind of formations? Because it's hard as hell to defend as a FB. Much more harder than the CB position, believe me.

Once upon a time, when people actually went for the line to make a cross, and there wasn't 6'2 wingers to complete crosses, it was the opposite. FB was easier to defend, and CB was harder(FB used to take the winger by front, and CBs faced crosses from the back), but in today's football? Every winger wants to play diagonals, cut inside and score, almost no FBs are allowed to attack the line anymore so lots of crosses coming from early in the pitch: the CB see the cross coming from the front, than it's easier to clear.

1)People play with crowded midfields(4-3-3/4-5-1 style formations) since the late 90's, because of a simple fact : to boss the midfield, not to defend the wings... In fact it is harder to defend wings at 4-3-3/4-5-1 style formations rather than 4-4-2..

2) In 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 formations, when you attack from one wing, the other winger becomes the second forward. When one crosses from the left wing, right winger should be at the far post, not at the right line, and vice versa. It is nonsense to say nobody is playing with 2 forwards.

3) Those systems and formations evolve through the time. To say, 4-3-1-2/diamond 4-4-2 was the anti-thesis of 3-5-2 & block 4-4-2 in early 90's. Then 4-5-1/4-3-3 style systems became the anti-thesis of 4-3-1-2. And now 2 forward systems look like the new anti-thesis. It is still early to say, but 4-4-2 with wide midfielders rather than line wingers & with technically gifted forwards rather than simple strikers look like the anti-thesis of 4-5-1/4-3-3 systems. Cesare Prandelli is using that kind of system in İtaly National Team. Terim used that system for 2 years at Galatasaray and now for Turkish national team. There are nearly 10 teams in Serie A playing with 3-5-2. In those experiments that system proved to be efficient against 4-5-1/4-3-3 kind systems, because of a simple fact : It is extremeley hard & expensive to find wingers of 4-3-3/4-5-1 style formations. And it is also hard to find defensive midfielders/anchor men for those systems. There is a reason CR7 is playing in the left-wing rather than in forward and considered one of the most expensive players(if not the most expensive). Again It is nonsense to say nobody is playing with 2 forwards.

4) I agree that, in these days it is not easy to play as a FB, as you will be confronting with the most talented players in the game. But their shortcomings can be compensated by good goalkeepers and center-backs. You can not compensate an error by a CB most of the time.

5)In today's football, centre-backs should deal with not only forwards, but also with wingers. That makes their job a lot more difficult.

[Javanar]

Vieira and Keane played more like box to box players. They were more central mids in my opinion. When I think of defensive mid, its players like Gattuso, Makelele, Mascherano, Mikel, Ince, to some extent Busquets that come to mind, players who shield the back 4 and effectively play to nullify the opposition's #10 and at the same time would not be of much use further forward.

This is in itself a very specialized role that you cannot list as being the most difficult position to play in football.

I do not think Keane and Vieira played as b2b players. Especially Vieira... Lampard, Gerrard, Xavi, Fabregas, Ballack, Essien, Selcuk Inan, Vidal, Pogba, Ilkay Gundogan can be considered as box to box midfielders. Vieira was an ideal defensive midfielder.

I would definitely call Vieira a box to box. Gilberto was the defensive mid shielding the back four. Vieira was free to get forward as he wanted.



Sent from my GT-S7560M using RealGM Forums mobile app

Pffh, every player is responsible for attack and every player is responsible for defense in modern football. As I remember, Vieira's main responsibility was 1)to stop opposition attacks and 2)to distribute the ball and 3) to start attacks for his team. He was so brilliant in his job that he could find time and energy to get into the opposition area as well.

[Javanar]

Once upon a time, when people actually went for the line to make a cross, and there wasn't 6'2 wingers to complete crosses, it was the opposite. FB was easier to defend, and CB was harder(FB used to take the winger by front, and CBs faced crosses from the back), but in today's football? Every winger wants to play diagonals, cut inside and score, almost no FBs are allowed to attack the line anymore so lots of crosses coming from early in the pitch: the CB see the cross coming from the front, than it's easier to clear.

It is just silly to think that Lahm is responsible for clearing the crosses, rather than Dante and Daniel Alves is responsbile for clearing the crosses rather than Pique.

Excuse me but, do you say "almost no FBs are allowed to attack the line anymore"??? That is simply funny. Please name me a single succesful full-back who does not attack the line?

[Javanar]

Also, it's not true to say 94 was the turning point. There was tiny separation of Beckenbauer from a defensive midfielder to a sweeper, which by definition makes him a coverage midfielder, or a "more outgoing sweeper". Marco Tardelli for Italy 82. Batista for Argentina in 86.

I do not say that the notion of defensive midfielder and anchor man was invented at 94 WC. But using a defensive midfielder/anchor man became so popular in late 90's and 2000's. There were not a single f... ing team playing without a defensive midfielder in that period. From the CL champions Real Madrid(Makalele) to even freaking teams that are struggling in Turkish Super Lig used defensive midfielders/anchor man in that period.

WC 94 was the start of that trend in Europe. As all western european teams(except Italy) were eliminated after the quarter finals in WC 94. WC 94 marked the end of 3-5-2 era in western European football...

[bbms]

Once upon a time, when people actually went for the line to make a cross, and there wasn't 6'2 wingers to complete crosses, it was the opposite. FB was easier to defend, and CB was harder(FB used to take the winger by front, and CBs faced crosses from the back), but in today's football? Every winger wants to play diagonals, cut inside and score, almost no FBs are allowed to attack the line anymore so lots of crosses coming from early in the pitch: the CB see the cross coming from the front, than it's easier to clear.

It is just silly to think that Lahm is responsible for clearing the crosses, rather than Dante and Daniel Alves is responsbile for clearing the crosses rather than Pique.

Excuse me but, do you say "almost no FBs are allowed to attack the line anymore"??? That is simply funny. Please name me a single succesful full-back who does not attack the line?

Who said the first? Tomorrow I answer the rest.

[Mirjalovic]

I don't agree. How many full backs in the world can actually defend the position properly? It's incredibly hard to defend at this position, believe me. The easiest imo is CB. If you are tall, fairly good at tackling and always well positioned, no coach will ever sack you out.

no no no, for being a CB, you need a steel concentration.. "always well positioned" is the hardest thing to master in soccer, there are no room for mistakes.. that what separating John Terry vs Senderos

as for most important position, its CB and midfielder. You can have Sebastiano Rossi in your goal, and just let Baresi, Maldini, Costacurta etc doing their work,,

fullback ? Paulo Ferreira, Jallet, Favalli, Pancaro, Zanetti scream the same thing, if you consistent enough, you'll be playing, no matter if you never be a MoM

Striker ? well in modern football striker role isnt that important.

Offensive winger is depending on your scheme.