2018 FIFA World Cup Round of 16: France vs. Argentina

Raps in 4 · Post #61 » by **Raps in 4** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:03 pm

Another international no-show from Messi.

Dr_Heat · Post #62 » by **Dr_Heat** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:53 pm

Ronaldo out of the World Cup , wow

Foye · Post #63 » by **Foye** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:04 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:Another international no-show from Messi.

...2 assists...should do it on a normal day...not his fault defense did not keep Mbappe in check...

Raps in 4 · Post #64 » by **Raps in 4** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:08 pm

Foye wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:Another international no-show from Messi.

...2 assists...should do it on a normal day...not his fault defense did not keep Mbappe in check...

One of those wasn't even intentional.

NYSixersFan · Post #65 » by **NYSixersFan** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:49 pm

What was the strategy of not playing any striker? With this Argentina team, I'd rather play fewer defenders and start Aguero and Dyabala

NYSixersFan · Post #66 » by **NYSixersFan** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:51 pm

I'm not an Argentina or Barcelona fan, but Messi is the best player ever....not his fault his team and coach are garbage

B-Ball Freak · Post #67 » by **B-Ball Freak** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:29 pm

Messi with the national team is like night and day compared to Barcelona Messi...I bet if Messi played for Spain he would be a World Cup beast and legend lol.

B-Ball Freak · Post #68 » by **B-Ball Freak** » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:32 pm

NYSixersFan wrote:What was the strategy of not playing any striker? With this Argentina team, I'd rather play fewer defenders and start Aguero and Dyabala

They would probably lose 6-2 playing with fewer defenders IMO

Triples333 · Post #69 » by **Triples333** » Sun Jul 1, 2018 1:52 am

NYSixersFan wrote:I'm not an Argentina or Barcelona fan, but Messi is the best player ever....not his fault his team and coach are garbage

I remember Zidane being a huge underdog against prime Ronaldinho and Brazil in the Finals. He CARVED them up and dominated the entire match. That was GOAT level play, and he did it for years on end. A total game manager. Messi simply does not have that unless the deck is stacked in his favor. This is from a Messi fan, he is not the GOAT, that is very clear. Neither is CR7.

Jetzger · Post #70 » by **Jetzger** » Sun Jul 1, 2018 2:13 am

Triples333 wrote:
NYSixersFan wrote:I'm not an Argentina or Barcelona fan, but Messi is the best player ever....not his fault his team and coach are garbage

I remember Zidane being a huge underdog against prime Ronaldinho and Brazil in the Finals. He CARVED them up and dominated the entire match. That was GOAT level play, and he did it for years on end. A total game manager. Messi simply does not have that unless the deck is stacked in his favor. This is from a Messi fan, he is not the GOAT, that is very clear. Neither is CR7.

Ronaldinho was in his prime a year before he joined the Brazilian national team?

DrKnick · Post #71 » by **DrKnick** » Sun Jul 1, 2018 4:36 am

Allez, France.

Matty · Post #72 » by **Matty** » Sun Jul 1, 2018 5:01 am

Inexcusable that Dybala only played 22 minutes this tournament.

Post #73 » by **Baphomet** » Sun Jul 1, 2018 1:09 pm

On what planet is this Argentina team garbage?

I swear, people love to roll out the excuses for Messi's international failures. Yes Mascherano sucks now, but they have arguably 3 or 4 of the top 15 players in the world (though admittedly at similar positions). Sampaoli is also a good coach. Yes he's one of the greatest of all time, but Messi is just as culpable for their failure as any other player on the pitch. The team doesn't exist to serve him. He has to work and press and win the ball back, rather than stroll around the pitch conserving energy, expecting the ball on a silver platter. You can make a living off that at Barcelona when you play with some of the best ball retainers on the planet, but not with Argentina. And that doesn't make them a bad team, either.

People act like he was playing with a team of Luke Chadwicks coached by David Moyes. Ridiculous.

BadWolf · Post #74 » by **BadWolf** » Sun Jul 1, 2018 2:30 pm

Baphomet wrote:
People act like he was playing with a team of Luke Chadwicks coached by David Moyes. Ridiculous.

But they did. No midfield, terrible slow defense, awful goalkeeping. All the talent concentrated in two spots. Not to excuse Messi, but did anyone really expect anything else then an early exit?

BadWolf · Post #75 » by **BadWolf** » Sun Jul 1, 2018 2:40 pm

To put it in perspective. Would any Argentinian player (other then Messi) make starting 11 for France? Spain? Brazil? Germany? Belgium? Some might make it into reserves or start situationally (Kun, maybe Pipita ).
And there's no world class player on horizon either afaik.

Post #76 » by **Baphomet** » Sun Jul 1, 2018 3:02 pm

BadWolf wrote:
Baphomet wrote:
People act like he was playing with a team of Luke Chadwicks coached by David Moyes. Ridiculous.

But they did. No midfield, terrible slow defense, awful goalkeeping. All the talent concentrated in two spots. Not to excuse Messi, but did anyone really expect anything else then an early exit?

Germany looked terrible this year, but I would venture to guess that nobody would say their team isn't talented. Good players have bad games, or even bad tournaments. True, the signs have been there with their poor qualifying campaign, but the issues seem to be rooted in a lack of on-pitch leadership and midfield disjoint. It falls on everyone. The fact that, right after their Croatia loss, the team revolted and started coaching themselves tells you a lot about their fragile mentality and lack of togetherness.

Besides the big name forwards they have (Messi, Higuain, Dybala, Aguero), Banega is a good player, Di Maria is a good player, Rojo was especially terrible but is a good player, Otamendi is a good player, Biglia is a good player (or at least he was until recently), Fazio is a good player. I respect your opinion but I'm not sure I can get behind the idea that this team isn't talented across most positions.

They weren't expected to beat France but against most other teams in the round of 16, they would have been favourites.

Triples333 · Post #77 » by **Triples333** » Mon Jul 2, 2018 5:49 am

Jetzger wrote:
Triples333 wrote:
NYSixersFan wrote:I'm not an Argentina or Barcelona fan, but Messi is the best player ever....not his fault his team and coach are garbage

I remember Zidane being a huge underdog against prime Ronaldinho and Brazil in the Finals. He CARVED them up and dominated the entire match. That was GOAT level play, and he did it for years on end. A total game manager. Messi simply does not have that unless the deck is stacked in his favor. This is from a Messi fan, he is not the GOAT, that is very clear. Neither is CR7.

Ronaldinho was in his prime a year before he joined the Brazilian national team?

Brazil vs France in 2006 is the one I'm thinking of (quarters or semi finals I think). You're right though that wasn't the time he/they beat Brazil in the Finals. I'm speaking to Zidane against peak Ronaldinho, Adriano, Kaka and Ronaldo. There was no question left as to who was the best player on that field after 90 minutes is my underlying point. That's what we're lacking out of Messi. He leaves a lot to question after many World Cup matches.

See that match highlights again for yourself: Again, I truly do love Messi, but THAT is a GOAT.

Watch on YouTube

NYSixersFan · Post #78 » by **NYSixersFan** » Mon Jul 2, 2018 11:54 pm

Baphomet wrote:On what planet is this Argentina team garbage?

I swear, people love to roll out the excuses for Messi's international failures. Yes Mascherano sucks now, but they have arguably 3 or 4 of the top 15 players in the world (though admittedly at similar positions). Sampaoli is also a good coach. Yes he's one of the greatest of all time, but Messi is just as culpable for their failure as any other player on the pitch. The team doesn't exist to serve him. He has to work and press and win the ball back, rather than stroll around the pitch conserving energy, expecting the ball on a silver platter. You can make a living off that at Barcelona when you play with some of the best ball retainers on the planet, but not with Argentina. And that doesn't make them a bad team, either.

People act like he was playing with a team of Luke Chadwicks coached by David Moyes. Ridiculous.

Yea, 3-4 of the top 15...and besides Messi, none of them started against France.

Foye · Post #79 » by **Foye** » Tue Jul 3, 2018 3:22 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
Foye wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:Another international no-show from Messi.

...2 assists...should do it on a normal day...not his fault defense did not keep Mbappe in check...

One of those wasn't even intentional.

...still...2 assists is 2 assists. You can't really hate on an offensive player who was involved in two goals IMHO.
Imagine you are an offensive player and someone told you prior to the game "you will get 2 assists today"...would you take it? Sure, because it's more than average production for an offensive player.
Defense blew it for Argentina...

Raps in 4 · Post #80 » by **Raps in 4** » Tue Jul 3, 2018 5:37 pm

Triples333 wrote:
Jetzger wrote:
Triples333 wrote:I remember Zidane being a huge underdog against prime Ronaldinho and Brazil in the Finals. He CARVED them up and dominated the entire match. That was GOAT level play, and he did it for years on end. A total game manager. Messi simply does not have that unless the deck is stacked in his favor. This is from a Messi fan, he is not the GOAT, that is very clear. Neither is CR7.

Ronaldinho was in his prime a year before he joined the Brazilian national team?

Brazil vs France in 2006 is the one I'm thinking of (quarters or semi finals I think). You're right though that wasn't the time he/they beat Brazil in the Finals. I'm speaking to Zidane against peak Ronaldinho, Adriano, Kaka and Ronaldo. There was no question left as to who was the best player on that field after 90 minutes is my underlying point. That's what we're lacking out of Messi. He leaves a lot to question after many World Cup matches.

See that match highlights again for yourself: Again, I truly do love Messi, but THAT is a GOAT.

Watch on YouTube

Too much recency bias in the GOAT debate.