2015-16 Italian Serie A Discussion

Post #221 » by **magik9113** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:40 pm

Pereyra is the reason Juve so desperately wanted at #10 this summer. he is a great player but not meant to be a starter. Juve failed by only getting Inter's Hernanes when they so obviously wanted the likes of Oscar, Draxler, Goetze, Hamsik.
Hernanes had three nice strikes on goal yesterday but other than that he was crap. Hopefully it's just a chemistry issue that time will heal. Marchisio is out for a month so we've yet to see him and Pogba on the pitch at the same time. Our midfield is not better than Inter's or Roma's without Marchisio and with Hernanes yet to settle in.

Bets: who loses by more this week, Juve @ City or Roma vs Barcelona?

DD12 · Post #222 » by **DD12** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:49 pm

I am still looking for an answer.

You are a club. You have Nainggolan, Keita, De Rossi and Pjanic. I offered you Kondogbia for one of them. Do you accept or reject?

Let me tell you something. 99% would give three of those four players for Kondogbia.

El Turco · Post #223 » by **El Turco** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:01 pm

dumb question, you are exchanging 22 year old with players in their 30s and late 20s. ibrahimovic is much better than memphis depay but nobody in their mind would give up memphis for him.

Post #224 » by **magik9113** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:03 pm

you asking me? I would trade each one of them for Kondo considering the age of De Rossi/Keita. Pjanic will end up sucking for a month straight in a few weeks as he usually does. Roma fans love Nainggolan--great player but they overrate him a bit, Kondogbia has a much higher ceiling

DD12 · Post #225 » by **DD12** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:12 pm

El Turco wrote:dumb question, you are exchanging 22 year old with players in their 30s and late 20s. ibrahimovic is much better than memphis depay but nobody in their mind would give up memphis for him.

It is not a dump question. You guys are claiming Pjanic is better than Kondogbia. Or Nainggolan. They are not very old. They have another 6-8 years ahead of them. If you claim kondogbia is not a great midfielder, you should refuse the offer. But you guys know, none of you could refuse that offer

El Turco · Post #226 » by **El Turco** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:26 pm

kondogbia's value attached to his future performance not current abilities, dont act like you dont understand how transfer market works. better question would be if roma would exchange any of those players for kondogbia just for this season. they wouldn't do it with de rossi and naiggolan for sure, dont know enough about keita.

one thing for sure, they wouldnt trade kondogbia/guarin/melo for de rossi/naiggolan/keita for this season.

DD12 · Post #227 » by **DD12** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:37 pm

If they wouldn't trade then they should be crying after inter finishes the league ahead of them. Plain and simple.

De Rossi is too old and injuries/suspensions are his problems. Pjanic just an average player nothing special. Nainggolan is the only good one but he is not enough by himself.

Melo is proven probably one of the most dominant midfielders. Guarin has been playing superb for years. Kondogbia is a top 3 mc in the world within years. It is not a potential anymore after playing with Monaco past two seasons. He is a beast already and easily worth a lot more than what Inter paid for him.

Kondogbia'a value / current abilities are much much better than What Roma has a combine of 4-5 midfielders. He can start pretty much every team in the world forget about Italy.

El Turco · Post #228 » by **El Turco** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:13 pm

guarin was terrible last year. melo fails against quality competition time and time again, he was one of the top reasons we allowed 6 to real and all the 4 goal losses last cl sans the first arsenal game. kondogbia could be special but he hasn't showed he is on de rossi's level and certainly wouldn't start over him, maybe over keita. so only one inter midfielder even have outside of chance of starting for roma.

Foye · Post #229 » by **Foye** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:16 pm

El Turco wrote:guarin was terrible last year. melo fails against quality competition time and time again, he was one of the top reasons we allowed 6 to real and all the 4 goal losses last cl sans the first arsenal game. kondogbia could be special but he hasn't showed he is on de rossi's level and certainly wouldn't start over him. so only one inter midfielder even have outside of chance of starting for roma.

Can't argue that Felipe Melo is a top 3 DM in the world. Just like Muslera is a top 5 gk in the world. :beer:

El Turco · Post #230 » by **El Turco** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:19 pm

muslera dominated the world cup and have come up big for gala in crucial moments. melo is a flat track bully.

DD12 · Post #231 » by **DD12** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:40 pm

Melo has the winner soul. You'll see this year

Without him and fatih terim gala wouldn't where we are at right now

tdotrep2 · Post #232 » by **tdotrep2** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:01 pm

DD12 wrote:I am still looking for an answer.

You are a club. You have Nainggolan, Keita, De Rossi and Pjanic. I offered you Kondogbia for one of them. Do you accept or reject?

Let me tell you something. 99% would give three of those four players for Kondogbia.

kondogbia got sold for 35m+5 bonus, only reason he went that high is because ac milan made inter overpay, roma was offered more for pjanic and nainggolan individually. Pjanic nothing special? yet melo one of the best dms? LMAOOOOO pjanic starts on every italian/bpl/german/french team, nainggolan one of the best b2b mid's in the world kondo is potential good player now but not at the level of those guys. Only player you swap for him is de rossi because of the age, but at this stage i start de rossi ahead of kondo and melo as a dm

Doormatt · Post #233 » by **Doormatt** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:54 pm

magik9113 wrote:you asking me? I would trade each one of them for Kondo considering the age of De Rossi/Keita. Pjanic will end up sucking for a month straight in a few weeks as he usually does.

lol not sure if you're trolling now too. Pjanic had an inconsistent season last year but before that he was pure class, people were talking about bigger clubs like Barca coming in to buy him he was so good.

obviously long term Kondo is a much more valuable player than Keita/De Rossi, but were not talking about 2-3 years from now, were talking this season. probably he could get in over Keita this season but i think it depends what you value, experience vs raw talent and power. a big reason Rudi likes Keita is because he is so good at organizing the team, he is basically a 2nd manager on the pitch. absolutely no way he gets in over De Rossi though

also Ninja was in most Serie A teams of the season last year, he's easily one of the best midfielders in italy and is far better than any inter midfielder.

Doormatt · Post #234 » by **Doormatt** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:02 pm

as for the CL games, i just hope Barca don't humiliate us, any result ill be fine with outside of that. i think we lose by more only because Pjanic is out and Castan does not look 100%, which means we will have to play De Rossi in the middle and probably Rudiger in the back, and he doesn't have the chemistry with Manolas for there to not be a ton of mistakes. plus its city so they will probably choke in europe as per usual. also aguero is out which is massive.

Post #235 » by **magik9113** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:23 pm

Pjanic simply is not a consistent player. He goes through too many slumps throughout the season. But when he's on he may be world class

Post #236 » by **magik9113** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:31 pm

Yea with Aguero out Juve are in muchc better shape. They should start 3 in the back and have a cautious approach
----------------Buffon
-----Barz-- Bonucci --Chiellini -
licht--------Pogba---Sturaro----Sandro/Evra.
-------Cuadrado--------------Dybala
----------------------Manduzkic

treiz · Post #237 » by **treiz** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:42 pm

DD12 wrote:Nainggolan did nothing last year. Pjanic is the same. I don't get why you guys overrating these two players who have accomplished nothing in their career. Same question then, you are the owner of the club. I am offering Kondogbia for Nainggolan. take it or leave it? Answer is pretty obvious.

You guys stating De Rossi. What? He is 32 years old and every two weeks he is either injured or suspended. I've never seen him playing 40+ games.

Kondogbia is still the best midfielder in potential with Pogba and probably top 5 who he already is. He is a beast and he will prove it soon. Just like Pogba did.

I don't see one single defensive midfielder who is better than Kondogbia in Serie A except Pogba. Please enlighten me who is much better than Kondogbia.

even though i hate Inter, they will finish ahead of roma for sure and deservedly so since they have a much better team. Whoever wants to take a bet, i can gladly accept it

I take Nainggolan, as of now easy. I don't get the point of you asking that question since we all know that you're not gonna take too kindly to my answer unless it agrees with yours whether it's correct or not. You value Kondogbia based on 2-4 years down the line (should he reach that potential) but you're clearly making the comparison for now.

So what if De Rossi is 32 years old? Doesn't make him any less effective, and whilst you comment on De Rossi never playing 40+ games neither has Kondogbia, so I don't understand how that negatively affects De Rossi considering Kondogbia has had his problems with injuries this early in his career.

Precisely, I bolded the key word there. Potential. You sound so sure and I hope for the kids sake you're right but at the end of the day only time will tell and for now whilst he hasn't realised this potential, I'll take proven commodities in De Rossi and Nainggolan.

In terms of being a defensive midfielder, you might have a point there, but you never specified that in the first place, you were clearly arguing before that he's the second best MIDFIELDER in Serie A, in which case is incorrect. To digress a bit, I don't think anyone would say Pogba is a DM anyway.

Also, to prove my new found love for Rome I'll take you up on your friendly bet (sig bet or avy bet?). Should be good fun and make the Serie A more interesting for us.

Doormatt · Post #238 » by **Doormatt** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:16 pm

magik9113 wrote:Pjanic simply is not a consistent player. He goes through too many slumps throughout the season. But when he's on he may be world class

literally only last season was he regularly inconsistent so unless you believe that is indicative of a bigger problem for him then i dont see how that is valid. i can see the argument that he is not always world class but has the potential to be, but to say he is inconsistent because of that is incorrect imo.

DD12 · Post #239 » by **DD12** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:48 pm

Pjanic is 26 years old. What potential are you talking about? After 26, he will become Pogba or something? He is just an average/normal player. Nothing more and nothing less. He is extremely inconsistent because of that he will never become a relevant player in today's football.

Treiz,

I am not talking about potential. Why are you guys talking about potential? I am saying today's Kondogbia is better than all roma midfielders. He is already 22 years old so there is not much potential anymore. There is more who he already is. I do not value him based on 2-4 years down the line. I value for today's impact.

De Rossi is 32 and he has been declining for years now. Usually dm position hits their peak time between 28-32 but he has done absolutely nothing in those years. He had a potential to be a world class but he hasn't fulfill that potential. That's he stayed at roma even when they extremely sucked in his potentially prime years.

Bet is good. Let's see if you will be my another victim. Mind you, I am undefeated.

cgf · Post #240 » by **cgf** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:29 pm

Kondogbia can really run with the ball, but he's still got plenty of work to do on his positional discipline and polishing his passing. Often taking much too long to decide what to do with the ball, or requiring too many touches, to effectively play as a deep sitting distributer.

He brings more to the final third and has greater potential, but he reminds me of Dembele around when the Belgian left Fulham. Will run for miles; an absolute ace in pressing; and a fantastic dribbler with that physicality/tackling. Hopefully the young frenchman develops better cause moving to "just give it to Bale" era Tottenham really neutered any development in the final third there was still to be had with Mouss.